What's Next for Chuck Liddell?
There's nothing like the MMA world for kicking a fighter when he's down. Now that Chuck Liddell has lost to Rashad Evans, everyone is suddenly noticing that he's lost 3 out of four fights, that he's getting old, that he's got sloppy habits that get him in trouble repeatedly and that his training camp isn't necessarily the best in the universe. (I have to hand it to BloodyElbow reader Tha Realness for pointing out all these things in advance of the fight at his MMA4Real blog).
Robert Joyner of MMA Payout sums up the situation Chuck now finds himself in:
Chuck may be fated to finish out his career in much the same mode that Roy Jones Jr. is in now, wandering the landscape, putting on fights that still draw a crowd but that are of little import in the grand scheme of things. Such a fate would be fulfilling to his bank account but would be an an end not fitting for a man that has carried the sport on his back into near mainstream status, something akin to watching Michael Jordan finish his career in a Washington Wizards uniform.
Sam Caplan, fresh off declaring that Rashad Evans had no chance to beat Liddell, thinks its time for Chuck to get a new camp (I'm just messing with you Sam, I picked Liddell too):
The conclusion I have come to is that Liddell doesn’t need to retire but instead needs a new camp. He needs a new approach that John Hackleman and “The Pit” can’t provide him. A lot of the mistakes we saw from Liddell last night are the same mistakes we saw in losses to Randy Couture, Quinton “Rampage” Jackson, and Jardine. Why Liddell has not improved as a fighter in recent years is partially his fault and partially the fault of his trainer.
Kevin Iole bolsters Sam's case by pointing out how one-dimensional Liddell has become:
...there were no surprises in Liddell’s game. He moved forward, looking to load up on the fight-ending right hand.
A superb kick boxer, the 38-year-old Liddell has largely eschewed his kicks. A former college wrestler, Liddell seems to have no use for his wrestling. And though he has very good jiu-jitsu skills, he hasn’t shown them in years.
Michael David Smith of AOL Fanhouse outlines Chuck's options in the near term (I've amended Michael's reasoning for space reasons, read his whole post):
- Fight Anderson Silva
Silva's manager has said that Silva would like to fight Liddell, and the fight would make big money for UFC. The only reason not to do it would be the fear that Silva would absolutely destroy Liddell.- Fight a tomato can
The problem is that hard-core MMA fans will see right through that ploy -- just as we can see right through EliteXC giving Ken Shamrock to Kimbo Slice. And, of course, the bigger problem is that if Liddell were to lose, it would be devastating.- Move to heavyweight
Adding Liddell would do more to beef up UFC's heavyweight division, and it could set up a lucrative fourth fight with Randy Couture some day. Might Liddell fight Fabricio Werdum in his first heavyweight fight, with a stipulation that the winner gets first crack at the Brock Lesnar-Randy Couture/ Frank Mir-Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira winner?- Retire
I'd like to see Liddell keep going, but after last night's knockout, it would be hard to blame him if he decides he doesn't want to set foot in the Octagon again.
I think that covers the possibilities pretty well. Personally I like the concept of Chuck moving up to heavyweight. I think Werdum is an excellent match-up for him and if Randy wins the upcoming string of fights, Chuck has every reason to think he could snatch the heavyweight belt.
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Am I the only one?
Seriously! Am I the only person who picked Evans to win this fight. The man was undefeated going into the fight. He was punching huge guys in the face and knocking them down on T.U.F.. Great wrestling back ground. Solid footwork and relatively quick. I am a Lidell fan for sure but I was really hoping Evans would do exactly what he did. I don’t really want to see Lidell fight again. In my humble and hardly educated opinion, I feel that we saw a career ending knock out. A great career no doubt and a fitting end to it at that.
by Warhand on Sep 7, 2008 3:48 PM EDT 0 recs
get off of evans jock, how could you even say you don't want to see liddell silva 2
by quike31 on
Sep 7, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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Give me a few days
I was a fan of Evans since TUF and I am super pumped on Evans right now. I predicted he would win and hoped it would be by KO but I too was pretty surprised at how viscious it was. As for seeing The Iceman vs The Axe Murderer again: I wouldn’t pay to watch it.
by Warhand on
Sep 7, 2008 6:02 PM EDT
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I saw it coming.
Other than keeping up on his toes against opponents he has respect for,he really has not done anything to improve his game.He is just very predictable. Maybe he needs to follow in Couture’s steps: take a year off,make his adjustments,come back to the ufc and bitch-stomp the reigning champ.Other than this,there is no reason why he could not ko “porcelain” Rashad Evans.Difference is,Rashad knows what his weakeness are,corrects or disguises them,instead of fighting each opponent the same way.If Chuck does not adjust his game this will not be last time we will see him in a state of rigamortis.Time does take its toll.There is a saying out there:“old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill”. Time for some premeditation,Chuck.
by trashtalkerdisposaldept on
Sep 8, 2008 8:35 PM EDT
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Chuck needs to add hormone replacement therapy to his game…
It did wonders for the “Natural”…
by mmalogic on Sep 7, 2008 4:10 PM EDT 0 recs
Yeah, certainly didn’t see that coming. Rashad knocking Chuck out. Is Chuck done at LHW? I don’t know. If he changed his camp up it could rejuvenate him. But him moving up to heavyweight would kind of fun too. Regardless, I think he should make some significant changes to the way he trains and who he trains with. Clearly things just aren’t working anymore. I think Rashad basically exposed him wide open.
by pud333 on Sep 7, 2008 4:13 PM EDT 0 recs
Oh, and might I add, it’s this kind of unpredictability that makes me love this sport so much. I was speechless at the end. Wow.
by pud333 on
Sep 7, 2008 4:14 PM EDT
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By “unpredictability” you mean that it was unclear wether Rashad would be able to use the holes?
I say that because I myself felt really stupid afterwards. Here I was, thinking that Chuck couldn’t possibly lose a stand up fight against Rashad. I believed it, blindly, until the very second I realized that he was out cold. Then, I changed my whole damn belief system in a virtual instant. How could I’ve missed something so obvious as Chuck’s gaps?
Actually, it left me feeling kinda empty, as if it wasn’t “funny” any longer, then I came here and got a lesson in perspectives 101 by Luke. Now I’m totally pumped to see the new guys take over the show. Hell, I might even become a Rashad fan!
by ununkvadrium on
Sep 7, 2008 5:25 PM EDT
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amen
Chuck is the past Evans is the future. Deal with it.
by Warhand on
Sep 7, 2008 5:41 PM EDT
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What I meant was the surprises and upsets in general. I mean, no one gave Rashad a chance in this including myself. I overlooked Chuck’s gaps and sometimes laziness (which Rampage also took advantage of, but I completely forgot about to my shame) because a) I really didn’t think too much of Rashad, and b) I sort of felt Rashad was in a way picked for Chuck to beat to justify the title shot. I wouldn’t have been surprised if Rashad had managed to win a decision or something, but to knock Chuck out with one punch? Never in a million years. I had the same reaction to when Gonzaga head-hunted Cro Cop. Just goes to show that nothing is for certain in MMA. And I too am looking forward to the rise of new stars in the MMA game.
by pud333 on
Sep 7, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
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Yeah, the same reason why I love and hate MMA. It can be a roller coaster of emotions.
People like Rashad and Forest bring that X factor that is hard to nail down. Their fight is going to be a doozy.
by Benicio on
Sep 8, 2008 1:26 AM EDT
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I like the Chuck vs. Anderson idea. It would be a huge fight, and most certainly would move AS up the 205-lb ladder in a hurry with a win.
by Popetastic on Sep 7, 2008 4:23 PM EDT 0 recs
It would also solidify Anderson's status as a UFC icon.
I’m assuming he demolishes Chuck.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Sep 7, 2008 9:16 PM EDT
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The UFC will want him to move to HW
If they still want Liddell to be a draw and headlining other main events they will want him to move to HW so if he loses there will be a built in excuse. They did the excuse bit perfectly for A. Silva and Franklin, both big draws, before their fights when they moved up to protect them.
But they know that he is at the end of the road and will try to squeeze out 3 big paydays. They could match him up with Franklin, hoping that he would win, then A. Silva. I’ll go with a wild card on his final fight and say that Elite XC will be done by then and match him up against Kimbo which would be an insane PPV buy. Talk about grabbing the casual fans.
by xx2000xx on Sep 7, 2008 5:19 PM EDT 0 recs
Chuck Liddell vs Rich Franklin
What do you guys think? Both are formerly dominant champions whose futures are currently being questioned. Liddell has just lost some fights and needs to reeastablish himself by beating a big name, while Franklin is new to the division, has passed his first test and is ready for a step up in competition. From a marketing perspective this has the potential to be huge. These are still 2 of the top names in the game…
by klown on Sep 7, 2008 5:58 PM EDT 0 recs
I don’t like the fight, Franklin is on his way up now. I think Chuck vs. Werdum is actually a really smart way to go next, though it’s not really a money fight. I still think he would give Anderson Silva some stylistic trouble, but I don’t see them doing that fight now.
by Michael Rome on
Sep 7, 2008 7:07 PM EDT
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Chuck vs Werdum isn’t a huge money fight, but Chuck’s a draw and I’m sure people would be curious to see his move up to Heavyweight. I certainly would. Despite his recent lack of wins, I still like watching Chuck fight. He just needs to fix some things in his camp and maybe challenge himself more with guys better than him in all aspects.
by pud333 on
Sep 7, 2008 7:25 PM EDT
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What kind of problems do you think Chuck would give Anderson, Michael?
The only problem with Anderson, in my view, is that he presses forward pretty relentlessly. But his ranged strikes and balance are going to be hard to contend with for a counterstriker. He just isn’t caught flat-footed by..well, anyone these days.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Sep 7, 2008 9:18 PM EDT
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I think Chuck is one of the only guys that would nullify his reach advantage, and I don’t think he’d have any success clinching with Chuck. It would be interesting at least.
by Michael Rome on
Sep 7, 2008 10:39 PM EDT
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Wait… the “Michael Jordan” of the sport? Wow, I sure don’t think so. The equivalent of a great 3-point shot specialist, maybe. The Wizards part of that analogy fits better.
by swarmofkillermonkeys on Sep 7, 2008 6:47 PM EDT 0 recs
Love him or hate him,
Chuck is the mainstream icon of the sport, as a whole, in the USA. That makes him our equivalent of Michael Jordan, even though there aren’t many true equivalents to that guy’s impact on his sport.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Sep 7, 2008 9:19 PM EDT
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"There's nothing like the MMA world for kicking a fighter when he's down."
Dude, what are people supposed to write? “Wow, Chuck really looked great until the punch that ended things?” The champ has lost three out of four, two of them to guys who weren’t being perceived to be in his league. Analyziing what’s gone wrong here is hardly kicking Chuck while he’s down.
by andherewego on Sep 7, 2008 7:16 PM EDT 0 recs
From hero to zero in one punch
I think the author was referring to how quickly people went from, “Chuck will fight Forrest for the title” to “Chuck needs to retire” based on getting caught with one punch. I agree with you that Chuck was overrated and probably shouldn’t have had as much hype as he had—much of that was people believing with their heart instead of analyzing with their mind—but it’s true that the tolerance for losses is relatively small in MMA vs. in football, basketball, hockey, or other professional sports.
by thetakeover on
Sep 7, 2008 7:26 PM EDT
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I disagree, regarding small tolerance for losses in MMA.
I think the fans in this sport have a ridiculous tolerance for losses. Randy Couture has eight of them in 24 (?) fights, for crying out loud, and he’s one of the greatest fighters of all time, according to many (including myself).
What we won’t tolerate is a fighter who is predictable in his losses. Couture learns from his losses, and emerges better for them, so we forgive the record and focus on the fight at hand. Matt Hughes, Royce Gracie, Tito Ortiz, and now it appears Chuck Liddell have all become predictable in their losses. It’s not even the frequency of their losses that’s upsetting, three out of four is bad, but in no way a deal-breaker, as long as were seeing progress. Chuck has made absolutely zero progress in his last three fights, with the Wandy fight now appearing to be an outlier, rather than an indicator of future fights.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Sep 7, 2008 9:24 PM EDT
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Actually the Wandy fight makes the other fights even more frustrating. Chuck mixed it up against Wandy, scored a takedown, threw a spinning back fist. Where was this against Jardine and Rashad?
by andherewego on
Sep 7, 2008 10:35 PM EDT
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i definately have to agree here. he seemed oddly one-dimensional much like kevin iole said. i also seem to think Liddell tends to take some opponents more lightly than others, even if he says otherwise. was it just me or did he seem a little more wild and reckless before he got KTFO?
by silverback on
Sep 7, 2008 10:40 PM EDT
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It was pretty clear he was way more motivated to fight Silva. The Chuck we saw last night was the same one trick pony headhunter we saw against Jardine. Almost no use at all of the jab, kicks, etc.
by Michael Rome on
Sep 7, 2008 10:41 PM EDT
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not to mention how sloppy he was. i still can’t fathom how he let his left hand drop so low. terrible..
by silverback on
Sep 7, 2008 10:47 PM EDT
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That's part of his takedown defense, keeping his left hand down.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Sep 7, 2008 11:15 PM EDT
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It seems Dan Henderson is suffering from the same illness as Chuck; They rely far too much on that one big shot and their whole game suffers because of it.
by Benicio on
Sep 8, 2008 1:29 AM EDT
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Personally, i thing Liddell’s chin has proven to be very weak. Though rashad’s KO was a ton more vicious, it was almost in the exact fashion he got laid on his ass by Rampage. i think my logic is mostly stemming for the fact that his chin has never really been tested seeing as how years of knocking people out generally means never really being hit.
by silverback on Sep 7, 2008 10:38 PM EDT 0 recs
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/7/14/571169/why-chuck-liddell-should-m
Yep, I said chuck should move up to HW a while back…
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Sep 7, 2008 11:11 PM EDT 0 recs
BTW…thanks for the link back Kid Nate.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Sep 7, 2008 11:12 PM EDT 0 recs
I am a huge Liddell fan for sure, but if he is unable to pump himself up for anyone other than Couture, Ortiz and Wandy he needs to hang em up. With those tiny gloves, not respecting anyone’s punching power is a huge mistake. While Rampage’s punch seemed to hit him just right, Evans punch was a classic slobberknocker and I do not see many people being awake after getting caught that squarely.
by dnevil001 on Sep 8, 2008 11:27 AM EDT 0 recs
chuck and A.Silva:i would spend $for that.
A.Silva With his dine-n-dash fighting style will do well.Chuck needs to move to another camp(he has out grown this one)or at least adopt some new methods of training.Chuck has always been predictable.Many have paid the price of getting caught up in his game with a ko,others are now being able to take advantage of his sloppiness because of the"age-slowing".A.Silva’s face has not been subjected to eating any "real"punches as of yet.It would be exhilerating to view an opponent who will bless his mug with the possibility.His style works for him, for now.Maybe its time they both move up weight classes,who knows …styles make fights,and we all may be treated to some gems. This site is better than uboob.Those fags over there , who think they are tough and intelligent have taken their mouths off the pickle to long and,after a while,begin to spew turds.
by trashtalkerdisposaldept on Sep 8, 2008 5:42 PM EDT 0 recs







