UFC 88 Notes

by Michael Rome on Sep 7, 2008 3:37 AM EDT in News

Rashad Evans proved me wrong: I have long been a doubter of Evans. I thought he looked really bad in his last two fights. It doesn't matter though, he just got a career-making KO over Chuck, knocking him out in absolutely brutal fashion. I don't think he'll get a title shot, but I suspect he may have to deal with Lyoto Machida next.

There is no clear contender at 205: Everything is up for grabs right now at 205. This outcome is a major boost for Machida, and a major money loser for the UFC. A couple of weeks ago the plan was for Griffin to rematch Jackson if Liddell lost, but I don't know if they still want to do that.

Chuck's future is uncertain: The bottom line is that Chuck left himself wide open with one of his sloppy uppercuts, and Rashad made him pay for it. It isn't really about age I don't think, he's been doing that for years, but people are catching onto his game. He is now out of the race for the title at 205, and will have to decide what he wants to do going forward. He is still a huge name, and the fans still love him. I don't think he will retire. I suspect he can move to heavyweight, and try to get in a position to fight the winner of the heavyweight tournament once it's over. Chuck vs. Werdum would sure be interesting in the middle of next year. The other option is to just do some dream fights at 205, such as a fight against Anderson Silva.

Rich Franklin looked great: Rich is one of the most underrated guys out there, and he showed how good he can be tonight. His striking was quicker and more dynamic than it has been in a long time, and he showed that he is clearly a level above Matt Hamill. There are lots of dudes I'd like to see him fight, including Rashad Evans.

Update: Dana White has announced that Rashad Evans will receive a title fight against Forrest Griffin.

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well he got the title shot

by Suqleg on Sep 7, 2008 4:07 AM EDT 0 recs

Rashad crushed Liddell.

Both in the ring and in the marketplace. A guy like Rashad is known by most fans as owning only one highlight reel KO in his career, and I’m not sure Chuck can survive this blow to his reputation. Ok, questioning his ‘survival’ is taking it too far, but permanent damage has been done to Chuck here.

Glad to hear Rashad is getting a title fight, although I do think that Machida would have been a great opponent.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 4:46 AM EDT 0 recs

He can survive just fine. All he would need is a big KO return win and fans would believe again. We’ve seen it time and time again in the fight game, people always believe in certain guys, and believe they’ll see the old version come back.

by Michael Rome on Sep 7, 2008 5:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'm not doubting whether or not he'll be a draw,

or whether or not he’s still a high level fighter. And I agree wholeheartedly he can survive. But he’s seriously got to prove that he’s not this one-dimensional Sprawl-and-Brawl guy. When an elite MMA fighters knows exactly what you’re going to do before the fight starts, you’re handicapping yourself more than you can afford.

And for the record, I think Chuck is far from ‘done’ as an MMA fighter. But this is kinda similar to how it went with Tito.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 5:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

how can chuck survive?

well he will as misterjonez thinks he on the downfall, everyone gets caught sometime, its just a matter of time before we see a rematch and maybe rashad will get caught as he runs from his attacker the first round was boring rashad not going in ducking and diving form Liddell, making him chase after him which is documented not to be his style of fight.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

Wow....

Who would’ve thought 24 hours ago we would be talking about a title shot for Rashad Evans? I hope all the fighters of UFC were paying attention; want a title fight? Knock your opponent out so bad the highlights end up on ESPN.

Will ESPN now start covering MMA? Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the next big announcement before this weekend is over.

by Akorn on Sep 7, 2008 5:14 AM EDT 0 recs

If they can get an 'in' with Rashad, it makes tons of sense for them.

Out with the old, in with the new kind of thing, makes them feel like they’ve got some leverage if they’re the ones promoting the new kid. Since Rashad’s not terribly marketable (prior to this fight, anyways) it makes it doubly sensible for ESPN to get involved now.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 5:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah it would...

I’m sure Rashad will get at least an interview. Also, you got TUF 1 and TUF 2 winners fighting for the title. I can see why Dana and Co. would make this fight. I bet he ran over to Forrest and said,“I think we have your next fight…”

Dana’s phone is probably ringing off the hook right now. I’m sure ESPN’s online MMA show will now find a spot on ESPN2.

by Akorn on Sep 7, 2008 5:40 AM EDT 0 recs

The game has passed Chuck by

Fights have evolved. Chuck has not. Simple as that. Chuck is done. Finally.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on Sep 7, 2008 7:12 AM EDT 0 recs

He just got caught...

First off Chuck was methodicly circling rashad, and i do believe it was his game to make him come at him this way, being that chuck is mostly a defensive striker and coming at rashad would leave him open like that. That being said I think chuck needs to venture out of the pit and train w/ someone other than John Hackleman, He needs to have a variety of training to get back on top. Now for Rashad I don’t think rashad gets a title shot yet, yes he did beat chuck but Machida is the number one contender i think right now, plus do you want to see evans dancing around like some degenerate in the octagon he was kind of acting lesnar-esque.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 7:32 AM EDT 0 recs

I didn't find Lesnar's antics and Rashad's twitching

to be remotely similar. Rashad just won the most important fight of his life, and probably the is the single greatest achievement in his life to date (please don’t compare family life to fighting, I beg of you). He’s allowed a moment to bask in whatever fashion he wishes, as long as there’s nothing illegal about it. At least, that’s how I see it.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 7:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

I hope...

that you don’t think that Lesnar is now allowed to bask in his win the way he chose also then…

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 7, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'm one of the 'Brock nut-huggers,' apparently

when it comes to Lesnar. I’ve always thought that fighters should be allowed to celebrate in their own fashion. We’ve been over this to death…But I’ll sum up my views:

Tito laying a shirt over his KO’d opponent: acceptable, but classless and unsportsmanlike. Probably deserves some form of public sanctioning, but nothing too serious if I’m in charge.

Lesnar bull-riding a guy who refers to himself as a psychopathic equestrian from Texas: acceptable, (double-negative coming) less classless than Tito, but very sportsmanlike in light of the comments which are now accepted as having been made by Herring’s camp. Might be bad form, but I don’t care about that.

Couture spanking Tito mid-fight: acceptable. It’s simply a form of striking to a region of the body that is an acceptable target in that position. I find this to be a fairly classy display of one-up-manship, actually. A poor display of striking skills, perhaps..

Rashad twitching and feigning a heart attack: acceptable. I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever. He’s simply celebrating, and once he saw how serious Chuck have been hurt, he slowed the behavior down markedly.

So there you have it. My thoughts in a can..erm, whatever this is.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

i thought the sport was about respect?

given tito’s antics always bothered me he buried ken shamrock like 3 times it got old then you had kendall grove doing the same damn thing. I think guys do come to a point when something will rub them the wrong way but short of call ing your mom a slut it is all well, but if you best your opponent then that should be that needs to be said.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

You thought wrong.

As much as I wish it were, the sport is about fan reaction and selling ppvs.

The sport is getting more and more overrun with antics and poor sportsmanship. I don’t mind a little trash talk to hype a fight, but imo, it should be about respect and the competition, during and after the fight. Unfortunately this speaks to the attitude of the fans and what they demand of the fighters.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 7, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

The one thing that wears on me a little bit...

is this thinking that this sport should be nothing but hugs after every fight and constant respect. There is no other sport on earth where everyone likes each other and is all smiles and respect win or lose. I don’t mind seeing a little bit more of a human element going on.

I know that we’d all like this sport to be above every other. But that is just an unfair expectation to place on promotions and fighters.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 7, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yep..

I’m a little shocked that anyone was bothered by what Rashad did. This is actually the first I’ve heard of it. And I’ll be honest, I always prefer an angrily contested battle. Who would say it’s any less fun? The only shit that bothers me if striking after the fight or holding on after a stoppage (I’m looking at you, Babalu). A guy dancing or gesturing? Come on, this isn’t a fucking English tea party— they’re punching each other.. It’s not in everyone’s character to hug someone after they’ve programmed themselves to take them apart.

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Personally, I’m a little surprised anyone noticed Rashad doing anything. After he landed that punch, I didn’t notice much of anything until I got to see Liddell back on his feet.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Sep 7, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Don;t get me wrong, I am NOT for love-fests after the fights, just a certain level of respect and professionalism. For instance, while I thought it was a little stupid, Rashads celebration was no problem, especially after he toned it down a bit when he realized Chuck was in bad shape.

This is fighting, and it takes a bit for the adrenaline to back off.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 8, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up 0 recs

I typo'ed pretty bad.

I meant “I hope that you don’t think that Lesnar is NOT allowed to bask…” as I am a brock fan also.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 7, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

lol

I read it as sarcastic, taking your actual meaning correctly, then.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

well thats how you see it?

well with his wife screaming like a banshee in the background and him grabbing his chest as if to have a heart attack, he won’t have to following of a chuck liddell or even a rampage jackson. I heard maybe 50 people cheering him after his win, not to discount his win over chuck but as i stated before chuck needs a change in training to take the next step. But lets take a look at the opponents that they have faced, chuck has a list of top contenders and the biggest name on evans tally is Liddell.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 8:55 AM EDT 0 recs

Wow...

Chuck fans are getting pretty emo over this one.

I like your points about what he could do next, Rome. I’d love to see him fight Anderson after Silva defends at 185 against Cote and Okami.

MMAPayout put it well, too:

Chuck may be fated to finish out his career in much the same mode that Roy Jones Jr. is in now, wandering the landscape, putting on fights that still draw a crowd but that are of little import in the grand scheme of things. Such a fate would be fulfilling to his bank account but would be an an end not fitting for a man that has carried the sport on his back into near mainstream status, something akin to watching Michael Jordan finish his career in a Washington Wizards uniform.

by Chris Nelson on Sep 7, 2008 9:49 AM EDT 0 recs

That is...

a bit of a misunderstanding of Roy Jones’ current situation. Roy Jones Jr. is fighting Joe Calzaghe (45-0) in November. Jones fought Prince Badi Ajamu (ranked in the Ring Magazine top 10 at the time), Anthony Hanshaw (undefeated and considered a decent prospect) and Felix Trinidad (admittedly a bit of an “attraction fight” but one that presented excitement and interesting elements) in fights that were more or less tune-ups to get back to the level where he could get a fight against someone like Joe Calzaghe (#2 pound for pound) in the world. Dude isn’t exactly fighting pointless bouts with no impact in the grand scheme of things. Even his tune-up fights were against guys of reasonable standing in the division with the end goal of putting himself in line to get a fight against a champion.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 7, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

Ice Man Gets Iced

Chuck’s waiting for the right has failed!
All I can Say Is Sweet. Want some pancakes with that?

by DOG GONE on Sep 7, 2008 10:13 AM EDT 0 recs

Are you one of the 28% voting evans, don’t tell me you don’t like chuck and want him back in title contention, one of the champs that had class and he’s is like the emblem of the sport, given alot of his fans might be bandwagon, but chuck will be back i just hope he trains w/ someone besides hack and the pit.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/8/20/597496/rashad-evans-could-upset-c

http://mma4real.net/

by Tha Realness on Sep 7, 2008 11:57 AM EDT 0 recs

Credit where credit’s due.

(formerly TheFightJournal)

by Lucas2 on Sep 7, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Chuck please get rid of HACK and get into the times.......

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 12:13 PM EDT 0 recs

I can't say I blame him one iota

for sticking with his team. He managed a ridiculous amount of success over the last five years, and to change anything would have been pretty unnecessary, and probably foolish.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

and what about now?

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

You've gotta be a major mark

To take all credibility away from Rashad and put it on Hackelman.

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah i credit him w/ catching him yeah but I'm not the only seeing it this way, chuck needs to add to his training

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cant speak for Quike, but I think its more about Chucks game staying the same, while everyone elses evolving.

by mythbuster on Sep 7, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, he's spoken for himself

In almost every thread about the subject. Rashad won the fight, Chuck didn’t lose it. End of story. Give the kid his due. That’s how Chuck has always fought and that’s how Chuck will always fight. You really think that Chuck is going to change his style at age 38? He’s lived and died by his hands and I don’t see that changing. And Hack is his best friend, he’s not going anywhere..

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Again

I think you are reading way too much into it. Rashad has proven himself in all of his fights, including this one. Chuck has proven himself in his career, but his past few have shown his glaring weakness and failure to evolve with the sport.

Saying ‘if chuck wants to continue fighting in MMA, he needs to retool his strategy’ != Rashad sucks.

You really think that Chuck is going to change his style at age 38?

I don’t care, but he will need to if he plans to try to stay successful.

by mythbuster on Sep 7, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's implied

To say that he needs to train elsewhere is to say that had he previously, he would have won this fight. And considering I’m arguing my point, it’s obvious I’m of the opinion that Chuck is who he is and that’ll never change. You know.. My opinions effect my outlook? Not reading too into anything— this is not the sort of thing with a worldly understanding.

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Sure

Saying Chuck has holes in his game that have been exploited, successfully, by Rashad, Jardine and Rampage means that Rashad sucks.

Pointless debate anyway. I will agree for the sake of peace: Chuck had no weakness, Rashad (and Rampage, and Jardine) didn’t use strategy to beat him – he’s just .. that .. good.

by mythbuster on Sep 7, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

What?

The conversation is lost on you. I just said give him credit for winning rather than discrediting Chuck for losing. You blew it out of proportion— it’s a very simple, general sentiment.

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

And in the end, for the sake of peace, I agreed with you. No need for the nasty comments.

by mythbuster on Sep 8, 2008 8:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Rashad absolutely destroyed Chuck.

No taking anything away from the guy, at least in my mind.

As I said, Chuck had the highest profile and most lucrative title run in UFC history. To change anything until it was literally broken (note: this occured at 88) would have been utter foolishness.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 7, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

atleast it wasn't keith jardine that knocked him that would horrible.

by quike31 on Sep 8, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

would be* horrible

by quike31 on Sep 8, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rashad vs. Forrest????

I guess this is one of those rare situations where neither of the guys fighting for the title are the top two in the class. Machida and Rampage are both better than Rashad (and Forrest, but that’s unavoidable since he’s holding the belt).

by Pantherhare on Sep 7, 2008 1:56 PM EDT 0 recs

rashad is an embarassment

i’ve been watching since ufc1.

this guy and his ‘homeboy’ showboating antics is the worst thing for the sport. if i want to see that type of garbage, i would have watched the wwe.

an awesome punch, but his personality and the way he carries himself turn me off as a fan.

i already long for the day he is face down on the canvas…

by bbqman on Sep 7, 2008 6:00 PM EDT 0 recs

I really don’t get this sort of reaction. Chuck fans are sore today, boy..

by Blackout612 on Sep 7, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

couldn't have said it better myself.

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

BBQ*

by quike31 on Sep 7, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

"Homeboy"?

I admit that Rashad’s showboating in that one TUF fight was a little much, but since then he has carried himself well and I don’t see any reason to degrade him, especially using the word “homeboy” which seems to me targeted at the fact that he’s black.

by thetakeover on Sep 7, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think it’s pretty obvious he meant black by homeboy.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Sep 7, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

It didn’t bother me too much. I would rather, when the opponent is out cold and possibly dead, a bit more sportsmanship but eh… a little “This is the big one, Elizabeth!” routine isn’t too bad. I’d rather see one celebrating their achievements over mocking their opponent any day of the week.

His wife, on the other hand, needs a muzzle. I’m sure she’s a very nice person, but seriously.. stfu.

by mythbuster on Sep 8, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up 0 recs