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The Case for Kimbo Slice

Ken_shamrock_medium
Jake Rossen makes it:

Propagandists will tell you Shamrock’s submission acumen will be a good test for Slice, that his years of experience will threaten to topple the barely professional status of the reformed backyard brawler.

Reality check: Shamrock has one submission win in 12 years -- over a man who currently has 20 losses against 7 wins on record. The vast majority of his ligament attacks came in Pancrase, where opponents wore massive leather boots that kept limbs free of sweat. Observers cannot recall the last time he even tried tackling an opponent, a probable result of decaying agility and stilted muscle activation.

If we establish that Shamrock cannot tackle Slice, and if we also accept that submission defense is a relatively substantial part of Slice’s tutelage under Bas Rutten, then we’re left with a stand-up fight -- one in which Slice will swing ferociously, backed by 240 pounds of muscle to Shamrock’s (estimated) 215.

Considering that a 185-pound Kazushi Sakuraba knocked Shamrock into the ropes, this is not exactly a bid for suspense on the level of Hitchcock.

...

But by and large, MMA has avoided this kind of lopsided violence. For all its perceived faults, the Ultimate Fighting Championship has made a habit of booking competitive and evenly matched fights. (Anderson Silva might be better than everyone he’s faced, but you can’t say slotting in Dan Henderson or Rich Franklin was premeditated cruelty.)

Bereft of substantial talent pools or matchmaking acumen, it’s the peripheral organizations that are beginning to trot out these kinds of depressing spectacles. Slice himself already had a turn against David "Tank" Abbott, who is as relevant to modern MMA as Jalopies are to Detroit, and Dream’s insistence on having Kazushi Sakuraba face Melvin Manhoef should’ve been criminally investigated.

This strikes me as a tad mean and dismissive of "the best laid plans of mice and men" axiom that creates so many unforseen MMA upsets. Still, though, the larger point about the heavy-handed engineered matchmaking is indisputable. And regrettable.

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Geez thanks Rossen...

Now I that I read that I have no hope for ole’ Shammy :(

by xFenixKnightx on Sep 30, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Ken Shamrock...

The 2nd man to die competing in MMA

by EazyEismydad on Sep 30, 2008 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

The first to die on live T.V.

by M.C.Gwin on Sep 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope not...

He’s a smart guy(I think) he’ll take a dive if it gets too hot in there.

by IHateMMA on Sep 30, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody wants to see a massacre.

Shamrock should not be fighting anymore. This just seems unsafe or even unethical. Still, I’ll probably end up watching the fight if only to see what will happen. It’s gonna be like watching a car crash. Hopefully this will be quick.

by pud333 on Sep 30, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

ThAt woulD BE awESomE!!!!! 4 the spOrt I mean, cuzzz peeples wiLL be talkING about it Alot!

(pretend several of those letters are backwards and written in crayon)

by mythbuster on Sep 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And as we all know, the best thing for the SPORT is to make it a SPECTACLE. Or so our dear leaders keep telling us…

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Sep 30, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's got a shot

If they let him come in roided out of his mind like he is in the above picture.

by Day Man on Sep 30, 2008 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Dude – people don’t like it when you point out the obvious. Prepare to be whined at.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Sep 30, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was a knee bar

And its a little more painful then a heel hook and much mroe damning to your career. Ankles tend to heal better then knees.

Anyone who was caught in that knee bar and didnt tap is a moron.

by JaeeJaee on Sep 30, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I take it you’ve never had a heel hook applied to you.
My first clue: The implication that they don’t hurt or are “less” damaging.
My second clue: You think it attacks the ankle.

Why even post about something you don’t know? What’s the point of going on the internet and trying to impress people you’ll never meet in your life.

by Simco on Oct 1, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously

You’ve never seen someone not tap to a heel hook, the first thing to snap is the ANKLE, you feel pain in the ankle and knee, but the knee doesn’t give as quickly, not usually. Also the ankle is much more flexible then the knee, meaning the ankle is much more tolerant.

nextly having broken an ankle, and having chronic knee problems I can attest not only does the foot heal faster, you feel less, thats only natural due to what your foot is. If your knee goes, it’s pretty much gone for life.

Do they feel great, no. but I’ve seen more people escape from deep heel hooks then knee bars. The heel hook is easier to get (for me anyway), the knee bar more damning.

once again, does either one feel good, no… but which ones more likely to end your career, the knee bar.

by JaeeJaee on Oct 1, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Simco’s point stands: you don’t know what you’re talking about. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 1, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really

because everything I said was completely wrong???

gtfo of here.

any joint submission is what it is, painfull and stands to break something. The fact stands a heel hook and knee bar are two related but different submissions, and while one has the potential to be nasty, one is gauranteed to be nasty.

you may not see my logic, and thats fine, thats opinion. But everything here I’ve stated outside of my preferance (rather be heel hooked then knee barred, severe damage to a hingle joint vs severe damage to a gliding with partial to a hingle) but nothing thats come out of my mouth and been wrong.

And in fact know well what I’m talking about, i’m no internet black belt, but I am a student of the game, who’s supceptible to both of these injuries and telling you which one I would chance it with in a potentially life altering fight.

So that being said, while there’s a good chance there is a few more experienced grapplers then me on this thread, i’ve been around long enough that I can assure you I’m speaking on what I know and find to be true.

by JaeeJaee on Oct 1, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Should they even grant Shammy a license???

I think Luke said it in the first story when this news broke…..The fact that the commisiion has to GRANT him(KEN) a license to fight. I think it is unhealthy to let Shamrock go in there and get KO’d. He SHOULD NOT be granted a license for this fight.

Other good points….that Ken’s only real submission wins were in Pancrase, and a couple heel hooks in early UFC days. These days, you RARELY see people tap from a heel hook. Ken submission’s will be about as dangerous as Thompson’s were….and taht aint saying much

Just cant wait for this night to be over. This is just an embarrassment to mma fighters who train seriously and are not in the cage just to look good by fighting guys that HAVE BUSINESS EVEN stepping into the cage

by fightfan on Sep 30, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, you do see the inexperienced tap from heel hooks – I give you Brock Lesnar.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Sep 30, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

above comment meant to be posted here.

by JaeeJaee on Sep 30, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

The more I think about this fight, the less I like it. Actually, I never did like it. It’s only a vehicle to save EXC by building Kimbo’s image as a legitimate MMA fighter. In my opinion, the match does nothing to enhance the viability of MMA as a mainstream sport unless you believe EXC’s survival is important in that respect. I do not believe that EXC’s existence in its current form does much of anything positive for MMA.

by Cannon Jacques on Sep 30, 2008 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

The article states valid points

that most here should know, however, to say that kimbo could possibly obtain enough submission defense for an experienced grappler is such a short time is crazy.

The problem here is sheer size strength and athleticism… not to mention shamrock is a moron who’s ego lets him throw logic out the window and try and bang when he’s really supposed to be a ground fighter.

Factor in that now a days he would be fighting LHW at most and the huge already appearent size disadvantage grows immensely.

You can say age is key… but dan severn has 10 years on ken and I am a firm beleiver he post a much bigger threat to kimbo then ken. Ken is a glutton for punishment who enjoys getting hit in the face… unfortunately that glass jaw of his doesn’t feel the same way.

To say ken is physically outmatched is dead on. Technically, advantage shamrock by and far…. But then when you factor in who’s going to fight a smart fight….

well lets just say with ken already promising a striking battle, Kimbo’s gonna look less like a rookie and more like Anderson Silva infected with rabies beating on an amputee midget who just insulted his wife.

by JaeeJaee on Sep 30, 2008 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

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