Judo Techniques Making the Difference in Fights

by Kid Nate on Sep 27, 2008 11:29 AM EDT in News

I found this fun gif at the super-skanky MMA-Core site (I'd link there but I don't want to expose the unthinking to the full on assault of spyware and got knows what else is on that site).

It highlights a trend I've been excited about over the last couple of years -- the successful, effective application of good judo technique in MMA.

Obviously Karo Parisyan was the pioneer of this but we're seeing it in more and more fights. Nate Diaz owes his victory over Josh Neer in part to the judo he busted out when Neer had double underhooks and was going for a takedown. His superior jiu jitsu iced his win, but without the ability to impose positional dominance, Diaz could have found himself eating some ground and pound.

Miura didn't beat Condit, but he came much closer than many expected and IMO its because he was able to disrupt Condit's momentum with a succession of judo moves that repeatedly put Condit on his ass.

I have to go walk the baby right now but I'm going to come back and attempt to name each of the techniques Miura uses in the gif seen here. Here's a fun judo reference site if you want to take a shot.

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Judo throws are one my favorites to see in an MMA fight. It’s pretty cool to see a person get thrown to the point where their feet are above their heads.

"Well if it's gonna be that kinda party, I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

by monkeyfightclub! on Sep 27, 2008 10:29 AM EDT 0 recs

judo chop!

yeah i always think of that last hughes/pierre fight when gsp basically tossed hughes over his head as one of my favorite throws. after that humbling throw, it pretty muched sealed the deal in my eyes that hughes will never be a top contender again.

by mistake4 on Sep 27, 2008 11:21 AM EDT 0 recs

I believe that was a modified harai goshi. GSP probably learned it from GJ.

by Flying Gogoplata on Sep 27, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Or he could have learned it from John Danaher who teaches it (among other Judo throws) to all of his students at Renzo’s and gave GSP his Brown Belt.

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Actually now that I think of it..

Yea he did learn it from John – http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/MM-Eh-News-and-Notes-from-Canada-12299

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

it looks like harai goshi, uchi mata, and a hip throw are in there. i don’t know what you call that trip that he did but it wwas pretty sweet. I do alot of jiu jitsu/judo and Judo is insanely effective its just not used by a lot of people. It will become more and more common tho

by TannerMatthews on Sep 27, 2008 12:25 PM EDT 0 recs

I see harai goshi, uchi mata and osoto gari

The no-gi osoto gari is a little different in that you don’t go chest to chest like in traditional judo. The leverage comes from the hips behind the foot. Similar to the variation when you are too far away for the regular osoto gari so you hook the leg and hop close.

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

gotcha, thanks.

by TannerMatthews on Sep 27, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree with you on the judo though. I think judo is great especially since I don’t like to shoot. A mix of judo and greco is what I’d like for my game.

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

I find straight Judo to be kind of unexciting to watch most of the time. Strangely, I love watching it mixed into mma. I have a lot of respect for judo, and it certainly makes a difference in fights.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 27, 2008 12:37 PM EDT 0 recs

It's probably from a mix of

Not having seen enough judo matches, and not quite understanding whats happening. i felt the same way about judo until i joined and hit my first competition. Then once I realized I could apply it no gi, i was in love!

Just imagine what traditional bjj looks to someone who knows nothing about the ground, they don’t see what you do. Give judo a real chance and I’m sure it will grow on you. Just my 2 cents.

by JaeeJaee on Sep 27, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Thanks, and I’m sure you are 100% correct. I have worked some throws and it is a blast to do and I admittedly haven’t seen very many matches. I fully intend to work some more judo in and as I said, I have a high respect for it.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 27, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Just Wondering???

It highlights a trend I’ve been excited about over the last couple of years — the successful, effective application of good judo technique in MMA.

Obviously Karo Parisyan was the pioneer of this but we’re seeing it in more and more fights.

I would have thought some Japanese Judo practitioner would be seen as the pioneer. I guess maybe you don’t see them as being all that effective. But in regards to Karo I haven’t found his Judo in the past couple of years to be all that effective either.

Whatever you meant I would love to see more Judo in MMA!

by natyong on Sep 27, 2008 1:33 PM EDT 0 recs

I think he is saying that Karo is easily one of the first, if not the first person to use Judo in MMA without the gi.

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm referring strictly to the successful use of judo throws

1) The Japanese judokas who preceded Karo in the sport — Yoshida, Ogawa, Nakamura — seemed to be overwhelmed learning the basics of MMA to really use many throws.
2) Also the PRIDE ring is a pretty crappy environment for trying to get off throws.
3) Karo modified the grips to work with no-gi, something I think the early Japanese judoka weren’t ready to do.

Karo’s stalled career has more to do with injuries and a failure to train than his judo being ineffective. Thiago is the only one I can think of who really shut Karo down. He put on a clinic against Diego (sure he still lost).

by Kid Nate on Sep 27, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cool

Thanks, man. I do like the point about ring vs. cage. Just think if they really did start taking point for grabbing the fence on the first infraction. Throws really would become a much bigger part of MMA.

by natyong on Sep 27, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

More…

by Nick Thomas on Sep 27, 2008 1:45 PM EDT 0 recs

Hey!

That last one isn’t judo. That’s sheer brute force. I remember the first time I saw that, me and my friends thought it was hilarious. Tim just looks like a bully.

Karo has a way of doing his throws with grips I could never imagine myself using. He is a pioneer.

by zeroword on Sep 27, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

That last one isn’t judo. That’s sheer brute force.

I believe the technical term is “bitchtossed.”

by Chris Nelson on Sep 27, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

that second Karo judo throw looks dangerous to both parties involved.

"Well if it's gonna be that kinda party, I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

by monkeyfightclub! on Sep 27, 2008 2:49 PM EDT 0 recs

by smoogy on Sep 27, 2008 5:11 PM EDT 0 recs

I lol’ed at that last one

by mythbuster on Sep 27, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

That Lyoto gif actually showed a karate unbalancing technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v38XQJgK7W0

by Flying Gogoplata on Sep 28, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Same Gif

2 different throws/takedowns. check the time.

by natyong on Sep 28, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

No, look closely. The first technique is southpaw and the second is orthodox.

But they are both the same technique – and it’s not Judo.

by Flying Gogoplata on Sep 28, 2008 3:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

in one he hooks the leg – they are facing each other (chest to chest) when the throw starts.
in the other he steps behind – they are both facing the same direction (shoulder by shoulder) when the throw starts.

or maybe i’m just looking at the wrong gif.

by Ronnie Liddle on Sep 28, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

Lol – Alpha Male

by zeroword on Sep 28, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes, there is a slight variation of which portion of the leg to use to as leverage and how far the body should rotate (which in turn depends on the position of the opponent), but the fundamental technique and aim is the same. And if you look at the youtube video I posted, the thigh is used as the fulcrum and and the opponent starts to be thrown when the nage’s and uke’s bodies are perpendicular.

Lyoto performed the technique slightly differently from this in each case in the gif. In the first round he rotated his body a bit more such that Nakamura started to be thrown when their bodies met at an obtuse angle. In the second round their bodies were perpendicular (not facing the same direction) when the throw starts and the lower leg was used as the fulcrum.

This is a very difficult technique to master and Lyoto commendably made it work in each case. I’ve seen him try it in the Sokoudjou fight (with 1:06 left in the first round) and failing because of Sokoudjou’s stance.

by Flying Gogoplata on Sep 28, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up 0 recs