Steve Cofield: EliteXC and Affliction Don't Need to Care About Hardcore Fan
by Luke Thomas on Sep 25, 2008 2:02 PM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintIn trying to delineate the argument that the hardcore fans desires don't often overlap with what's financially necessary or ratings appropriate, Cofield offers the following:
I'm going to say this for 500th time because Jared Shaw and Affliction's Tom Atencio can't...they could give a rat's ass about hardcore fans on these CBS shows. I am hardcore too, but recognize that 'our' numbers alone would bankrupt every MMA promotion. Mixed martial arts is still a fledgling sport and has barely made a dent with casual and non-sports fans. EliteXC needs massive numbers to keep this going on CBS. We're talking about 4-5 million viewers. The tens of thousands 'hardcore' fans mean nothing. For these promotions with small rosters and almost no 'free' television time, they have to maximize every opportunity they get. As much as Scott Smith v. Robbie Lawler was a legit fight for the hardcores, it delivered only 60% of the Kimbo show audience.
Shaw is right that this will could hit the mainsteam and Dana White hard. That's the true story here not what caliber fighter Arlovski is versus Kimbo.
Now, Cofield is right, of course. I am as guilty as the next hardcore fan in issing proclamations about what I want to see in a MMA fight or event only to realize later I was merely shouting into and listening to the reverb from an echo chamber. The data is impossible to ignore: there are certain sacrifices or departures away from the hardcore vision of MMA in order to make the sport successful at this juncture. Period.
But I would caution everyone in losing perspective here. It's impossible to disagree with Cofield on the point he makes. However, the fact that the Shamrock vs. Slice bout is absurdly heavy-handed because it has become the recepticle for EliteXC's survival is also true and always worth mentioning. One does not have to dispute the economic realities in order to still beat the drum about EliteXC's pro-wrestling antics, overly engineered match making and Slice's popularity bubble. There is nothing mutually exclusive about the two and EliteXC, if they want to succeed over the long term, should be able to withstand the scrutiny.
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As much as Scott Smith v. Robbie Lawler was a legit fight for the hardcores
For some definition of “legit” in which having a middleweight title fight between two UFC welterweight washouts sounds like a great idea.
Great example, Steve.
The data is impossible to ignore: there are certain sacrifices or departures away from the hardcore vision of MMA in order to make the sport successful at this juncture.
This sounds like the “pro wrestling as business model” crap I hear a lot – almost as much as the “boxing as business model” garbage that still goes around. If MMA is going to be a serious SPORT, why can’t it model itself after legitimate sports instead of “sports entertainment” or the sport with the longest history of corruption, dirty dealings and protecting fighters from real competition? Why repeat their mistakes?
Why not try to emulate sports like football or baseball or hell, even NASCAR? Sure, Kimbo vs. Shamrock will put a lot of butts in chairs, but you don’t see the Yankees playing the Dodgers every year in the World Series because it’ll make the most money! You see the teams that performed the best. (I didn’t say the best teams…) Which is why I want to see Couture vs. Emelianenko, or even Couture vs. Nogueira instead of Couture vs. Lesnar.
And yes, this would mean slower growth. This isn’t the best plan in terms of making fast and easy money. But our job as hardcore fans isn’t to help the promotions make as much money as possible. We’re not here to kiss their asses. Our role is never going to be to take what they give us with a smile. It’s to heap praise on them when they do the right thing and heap scorn on them when they don’t. And honestly, putting a man who is too old and damaged to fight a good striker up against a man who isn’t a skilled enough martial artist to deserve a main event deserves a fair amount of scorn.
(And for all the shit I give them, I used to be a big fan of Ken and I hope for nothing but the best out of Kimbo. None of which makes this a decent match-up.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
NASCAR is Pro-Wrestling on wheels. It’s all about Faces and Heels. Just like life is about smiles and crys.
Yes, but people are actually trying to win, not taking direction from the refs.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
That statement is absurd to the point of being laughable.
by Cannon Jacques on Sep 25, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes you wonder if Mr. RoyalB has ever watched NASCAR.
by Richard Wade on Sep 25, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wondered how he managed to miss my point so much. I don’t even want to argue personalities – I want to argue results.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
He described NASCAR as “Pro-Wrestling on wheels” and you wonder how he could have missed your point? I think the answer is pretty obvious. ;-)
by Richard Wade on Sep 30, 2008 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
What about the casuals who ask their hardcore friends if the fight's worth seeing?
All my friends rely on me to show them good fights. They might hear something here or there in regards to a fight or major event, but none of them follow blogs or signed up for the ProElite website.
We watched the first few shows (even before they were on CBS) and everyone enjoys watching Gina fight (men and women in my crew). Kimbo is considered to be a hard hitter but lame otherwise. Everyone thinks he looks like a cool character, but he didn’t deliver. No one else in EliteXC interests my casual friends. They wanna see Gina vs. Cyborg and think any fight Kimbo’s in is gonna be boring.
This is a generation that grew up playing video games and watching Jackie Chan – I dunno how many people are gonna fall for Kimbo after the Thomson performance.
And – just to clear this up – I actually like Kimbo, and have a feeling that that embarrassment is only going to motivate him.
Great point. Here’s the email I sent out this morning to see if my non-hardcore friends wanted to get together for the next EliteXC event:
October 4th is the night for EliteXC’s latest pile of dogshit, in which the following EXCITING bouts will be held:
* Heavyweight Bout: Kimbo Slice vs. Ken Shamrock – Answering the age-old question: what happens when an unstoppable fist meets an old man? Oh, wait…
* Welterweight Title Bout: Jake Shields vs. Paul Daley – “Semtex” Daley comes out of his brief bullshit retirement to face a man who will kick his ass.
* Heavyweight Bout: Andrei Arlovski vs. Roy Nelson – Recently-becoming-increasingly-boring “Pitbull” Arlovski takes on a big fat guy you’ve never heard of! You may remember him from such events as, Affliction:Banned where we watched him take on a big fat guy you’ve never heard of! That’s a career! Vat a country!
* Women’s Bout: Gina Carano vs. Kelly Kobald – Hey look, somebody willing to get her ass kicked by Gina! Probably the best striking of the night.
* Middleweight Bout: Benji Radach vs. Murilo Rua – Remember that guy who got his ass beat by Forrest Griffin? Well his little brother is fighting the guy whose only career win you might have a reason to care about was over Matt Serra’s little brother. Are you as stoked as I am?!?!
Also:
* Women’s Bout: Cristiane Santos vs. Yoko Takahashi – People were so excited by Mrs. Cyborg-Santos that they stuck her on the undercard! Where you can’t see her! Against somebody nobody cares enough about to make a Wikipedia entry for! Yeah, figure that out!
Free on CBS, because nobody would pay for this, unless Gina were fighting naked.
And yet, everybody’s going to get together for this one. You can’t beat free! :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Sep 25, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that was deliberately inflammatory because I wanted to convince one of my friends to host – she has HD and I don’t, and she likes a nice Two Minutes Hate. :-)
But it’s all true, right? I mean, meanest possible way to phrase every single bit of it, but it’s not like I was lying. Summing up Ninja Rua the way I did wasn’t fair, but I thought it was funny.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
What did you say about the last UFN last Wednesday? I’m sure you told them it was top level MMA.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Good guess! I mean, you’re exactly wrong, but it was nice of you to show what an uninformed response is like! Thanks for your input!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
hahaha
Wow, somebody’s new around these parts.
by Richard Wade on Sep 25, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do people hate on everything Non-Zuffa?
This is why Cofield says that EXC and Affliction need to not worry about the hardcore fans. Far too many of them are fucking idiot. Stop being Dana White’s lackey bitches and give another promotion an honest try. If you are really a fan then the more MMA on TV, the more opportunity to see good fights you will have. Just because Dana says Bisping/Leben is a world class event headliner. Or that Cote is a worthy title contender doesnt mean its true.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Oh, man a promoter is over-hyping fights? For shame! Who would have guessed! SHOCKER!
It’s funny that you call out Dana for that while forgetting the bullshit cards that everybody else has been putting together. Say what you will, but the UFC does the best job among all the promotions of putting together competitive matches.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I've made this comment about Cote before
But he’s beaten Scott Smith, Jason Day, Grove, McFedries and Almeida en route to his title shot. Please name someone more deserving that they were supposed to give the shot to? You can’t, as injured people can’t fight. No one should blindly watch MMA for the sake of MMA. EliteXC’s product, for the most part, is shit. You’re the one that seems to be hating the UFC for the sake of it. Grow up.
All that is right, except…it almost certainly will not “hit Dana hard.” Actually, it won’t do anything to Dana except make bigger stars out of guys Dana will sign once these promotions go under.
Hit Dana hard?
A bit dramatic aren’t we? I have watched every moment of the NFL on CBS and have barely seen any ads for this event. This AA fight just got set up what…10 or so days out? You’re way over estimating this impact.
In my view, Cofield saying that the “hardcore fans mean nothing” is an exaggeration to say the least. The most devoted fans of anything carry some sort of importance, even if their numerical significance isn’t overwhelming. Maybe he was just trying to emphasize his point., but I still think it’s a bullshit statement.
They don’t mean nothing, but you can’t base an org strictly around catering towards the hardcore fan.
Look at the cards over the last years that have been tailor made for hardcore fans and had them all creaming their pants.
Bodog, WFA, Affliction. What do all those things have in common? Shitty PPV buys. 2 of those orgs are dead, and one just “postponed” a card and is completely reorganizing itself.
There aren’t enough hardcore fans to make a difference. If there were, maybe Fedor would still be fighting for Bodog, or Rampage for WFA, or maybe Affliction would not have had to move the October show.
The most devoted fans don’t matter if they don’t bring in the money, everyone’s money is the same, so if you can get more from people that are casual fans than you can from the hardcore fans, you should target the casual fans, because targeting the hardcore fans will get you nowhere.
They might not care about hardcore fans(and honestly why should they) but they really need to be concerned with at least appearing to be an actual competitive sport. Pro Wrestling can get away with it because they aren’t even trying to pretend to be real anymore but people wanting to see MMA want to see what they perceive to be a real sport. Even the most oblivious casual fan will eventually catch on that you are trying to pass off non-competitive fights or second rate fighters as a top level competive events. EliteXC needs the casual ratings now but if they are going to have any kind of future they can’t have casual fans seeing them as a pro wrestling substitute either.
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