How to Properly Handle Couture vs. Lesnar

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 9:34 AM EDT Comment 47 comments

Fronted by Luke Thomas.

As rumors swirl regarding UFC heavyweight champion Randy Coutures return to the UFC to fight Brock Lesnar in November many situations present themselves as to who should be getting title shots and who is the real heavyweight champion. Many people see Brock Lesnar’s 2-1 record and think that there is no way he deserves a title shot. And that is a very valid point. There is also an argument on whether this is a title match or if Randy should fight Nogueira for the title to unify the belts. I have come up with a solution that I think is pretty fair for all fighters involved.

First, Randy Couture should not be recognized as the current heavyweight champion, Nogueira should be recognized as the sole champion. My reasoning for this is Couture has not defended the belt in over a year and chose to sit out. Therefore, in all fairness he should be stripped of the title and Nogueira declared the undisputed champion. That brings more value to the December PPV of Nogueira Vs Frank Mir as being for the undisputed championship more valuable than if they were fighting for the interim belt. It also helps the Lesnar-Couture fight as people no longer need to worry about Brocks undeserving record.

Also, if Lesnar wins the fight he has beaten a proven champion and more people will see him as deserving a shot against the Mir/Nogueira fights winner. If Couture wins, then he could be in line for a shot at the winner of Mir/Nogueira and the UFC could hype it up as a fight where the legend is coming back to take back the title he never lost.

Of course, one must remember that there just have been little rumblings of negotiations going on, and nothing has come up to 100% confirm that this fight will happen. And Couture could possibly play hardball and say the only way he comes back is if he is recognized as champion upon his return.

The above mentioned solution would be the best way to protect the value of the heavyweight championship as well as let the UFC set up a great fight in Lesnar-Couture with the winner facing the Mir/Nogueira winner.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Read More: ufc, randy couture, brock lesnar

Comments

Promoters will use any angle available to hype up fights so in the event that Randy does come back, you can be assured they will pump up the whole ‘unification’ angle.
Personally I couldnt care less how they market fights, so long as the good fights are made!

by Benicio on Sep 1, 2008 4:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think there’s an issue that needs to be handled at all. Randy Couture formally resigned as HW champ. The reason Zuffa didn’t recognize that was for legal strategies.

You can’t strip somebody of a title that they resign. That’s like telling your boss that you quit and then he says you’re fired. There is no issue.

by Higgz on Sep 1, 2008 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

that stills works for me. Basically he should not be recognized as champion.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

let the UFC set up a great fight in Lesnar-Couture with the winner facing the Mir/Nogueira winner.

this is the right answer.
They say Couture is the champion and Nogueira is the interim champion..realistically that should be the only fight but TUF as usual has put the kybosh on that fight. Have the winner of each fight “unify” the title.

by pr0cs on Sep 1, 2008 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it's fair...

to blame TUF in this case for Nog/Couture not happening. At the point where they had to declare coaches Randy wasn’t around…so they couldn’t just hold out and hope.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 1, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he’s still not around now. There just exists the possibility that he could come back.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Sep 1, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah..

TUF is again screwing up the title picture. This will be Nogueira’s first title defense and it took him nearly 11 months to have it. They need to plan ahead with these things.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

And posted the same thing on another forum. If the UFC could do this it would be great. No matter what happens I’d like to see a Couture/Lesnar bout first, Fedor/Couture bout second co-promoted with M-1 in a return to Canada, and thirdly I would like to see a Randy/Chuck or Randy/Nog matchup for his third fight. The problem with the Randy/Nog fight is if Nog is the champ and Randy beats him for his last fight we could have this whole situation again. What would be really awesome for his third fight is a Randy/Anderson fight at LHW.

by dedstrk911 on Sep 1, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The..

Fedor/Couture bout will not happen as a co-promotion. No way Zuffa would agree to do that.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

What about Fedor?

I think Lesnar will destroy Randy, so your solution above will work. Lesnar then fights Nog for the title, and Fedor fights Randy as a one-off side show that fans will love (without giving Fedor a belt he’ll not defend)

by 813278 on Sep 1, 2008 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What about Werdum?

Seriously, not giving him the next shot after TUF is just wrong. That would have lesner fighting twice more, no problem there. Randy fighting twice before a shot, no problem there. And Fedor, IF he were to come to the UFC, not getting an instant title shot, no problem there.

Of course I understand why this won’t happen, but it is unfortunate that the only thing Werdum is in line for, is to get screwed.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about Werdum?

he’s got exactly two wins in a row….one against an overyhped under gassed gonzaga and one against an overhyped undersized Vera…are we forgetting that Werdum was dominated in a snoozefest with Arlovski? it’s not some kind of travesty if the guy has to wait a little while for a shot.

by the real romano on Sep 1, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be a fine argument, but what UFC HW has done more?

GG and Werdum were supposed to be 2 of the UFCs top contenders, so…

You think Lesner getting subbed and then smashing Herring is more deserving?

Nothing at all against Lesner, but come on.

What I’m saying is that Werdum is MORE deserving, but the ppv sales side of it will more than likely see him passed over.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is when there are no other legitimate contenders. From a sporting aspect, Mir getting the shot over Werdum is criminal.

by Mike Fagan on Sep 1, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Randy/Anderson at LHW is dreamy. That would be hyped out of this world.. even though it isn’t gonna happen.

Rob Dib
http://www.break-your-face.com

by Rob Dib on Sep 1, 2008 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think this way makes sense from one standpoint, it’s also the way to ensure they make the least money possible.

by Michael Rome on Sep 1, 2008 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I..

think they can make the most money possible. Couture/Lesnar will bring in pretty good ppv view buys and would sellout if held in Portland as rumored. The winner either way would draw pretty huge going for the title, especially if Nogueira successfully defends. I don’t know how well a Mir/Couture would draw. Probably pretty decent since Couture is some popular among casual fans. Lesnar/Mir could be built up as Brock trying to revenge his loss and get the belt.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think this will be a unification fight...

just so the UFC can make this a 5-round’er.

by BR721 on Sep 1, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It will be a title fight. Couture defending the title against Lesnar is where the money is, and a unification match is even more money. Plus Couture’s camp is already insisting on a 5 rounder. In the end, all the focus on the title leading up to a unification is what will make the title most important.

by Michael Rome on Sep 1, 2008 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think making it for the title waters down the value of the title being that Lesnar has a 2-1 record, and as mentioned above, Werdum is probably more deserving of a title shot. It kind of reminds me of the days when Cabbage Correira or Gan McMee got title shots because the heavyweight division was so weak. My point, there are a few more guys in line for a shot than a very talented 2-1 fighter.

What does it say if a guy with lots of potential with two wins (over opponents he was supposed to beat) gets the title shot? I imagine it would cause some disgust among talent in the locker room to see a guy with such inexperience get a shot at the title.

Couture/Lesnar will do great no matter what on PPV. I do not think it being for the title will cause a huge jump in buys. This is a big match period.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My bad

Correira never received a title shot. He fought Sylvia one fight before Sylvia became champion.

by Jerret Anderson on Sep 1, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. That makes no sense. Lesnar to get a shot at Coutures title? Actually, it does make sense, from a money standpoint it makes a ton of sense but from a sporting standpoint it does nothing but give a shot to a guy who doesn’t deserve it while 2/3 others sit on the sideline. It would be like putting the Yankees in the playoffs even if they don’t deserve it because they draw the most interest and by interest I mean money.

by dedstrk911 on Sep 1, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fight business is not analagous to team sports with full seasons worth of records that start fresh every year.

by Michael Rome on Sep 1, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it’s ever to be a legitimate sport it needs to be based on athletic acheivements an not which fighter will pull more money in via ppv buys. It may not be analgous in the strictest sense of the word but just because chuck will make more money or Brock will make more money or this guy or that guy will make more money doesn’t mean they should get jumped up the rankings. Especially in Brock’s case. It makes no sense at all. Where it is analgous is the fact that you should have to EARN the shot. Brock shouldn’t be ahead of Nog, Mir, or Werdum and it’s as simple as that.

by dedstrk911 on Sep 1, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

meh.

you guys overthink the title scene a little too much. Fact is, there is no ranking system, no governing body or mandatory challengers…it’s all about ppv buys…yeah, Zulu deserved back to back fights with fedor and big nog? based on one fight? this is mma for better or worse and this is the way that it is run…get in line or get out.

by the real romano on Sep 1, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly, this is something that will only matter to a couple of online fans that will complain for Werdum. The bottom line is if Randy comes back champion, most people think Lesnar can beat him, so it’s not really unjustified to make it a title match. If anything they could just do Werdum/Nogueira before the unification match to make things more fair.

But no, doing the second biggest PPV of all time with a gigantic mainstream Couture vs. Lesnar match will not water down the title anywhere besides the depths of Sherdog.

by Michael Rome on Sep 1, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it sucks, because, imo Werdum should be the #1 contender right now. of course I understand why it wasn’t Nog/Werdum on TUF, but damn a Nog/Werdum fight has me salivating right now.

And I think there are more than a couple of people who would like to see the title shots given in at least some order.

Of course the bottom line is $$$, and that is fine. UFC still needs to flex its muscle and show it is the only relevant promotion. Couture is a huge draw. lesner is a huge draw. Werdum is not a draw. Hopefully Nog will become a draw after TUF. or Mir. So common sense dictates you have Couture/lesner and sell a brazillion ppvs (how many is a brazillion, lol).

As for the title, so it’s a little muddled for a few months. Randy wants a 5 round fight and Nog has never been anything but interim champ officially. I don’t think Lesner has earned it yet, but if he beats Randy and Nog ( or Mir, I guess you know who I think will win that one), then he will be a very deserving champ and will definitely deserve the belt.

Predictions:

Randy/Lesner—Lesner crushes a smaller, older, slower, less explosive Couture and shows that though he is unquestionably great, he may be the most overrated fighter out there.

Nog/Mir—Nog wins and Mir, who is still young, keeps on plugging.

Lesner/Nog—Lesner is certainly more athletic at this point and I could see him winning, but Nog may be the most dangerous opponent out there for him. I would say Nog by some submission.

Lesner/Werdum—Only of Lesner beats Nog. I feel the same way about Werdum as Nog. Very dangerous style for Lesner. If Brock can beat Randy, Nog and Werdum, you can color me amazingly impressed.

To clarify, I’m not lobbying for Werdum, i just think he needs to at least garner some consideration in this whole mess.

Then after all this, there is still the worlds best HW, fighting in the Fruit of the Loom show. I’m all for competition amongst promotions, and I buy their shows, but selfishly i want to see Fedor in the UFC.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless of how it is put together, this should be a huge set of fights for the UFC to cash in on, both financially and publicity wise. Plus the negative impact it should have on the competing promotions.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I completely disagree. They should have never had an interim champ then because it means nothing at all if Brock comes in and gets the shot. With all that said I would love to see the fight but I don’t think it’s right at all.

by dedstrk911 on Sep 1, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where does Couture get off demanding a five round fight, after all the shit that he has pulled? The guy should be grateful that the UFC isn’t going to let him slide into oblivion by tying him up with legal battles for another two years.

by idefinecagefighter on Sep 1, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because he thinks a 5 rounder gives him a better shot at beating Brock.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously. My point is that he is know way deserving of a title fight, or making specific demands to the UFC.

by idefinecagefighter on Sep 1, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the UFC didn’t want him back, they wouldn’t negotiate. Obviously they do, so Randy has some leverage here.

Unless you think that Randy “owes” the UFC something and should just shut his mouth and let Dana pay him what he wants?

by Mike Fagan on Sep 2, 2008 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Business is business, there is no room for emotion where big dollars are concerned.

Try looking at this from a balanced perspective rather than an emotional one.

by Benicio on Sep 2, 2008 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its Randy's Choice Not Brocks

couture wants 5 rounds because he has a Huge Tank and never gases and Lesnar a less experienced fighter hasn’t ever been 5 rounds with that said he didn’t look too tired after the herring fight and that was three rounds he definitely didn’t do a Kimbo and fall out in the middle of the ring like he just fought for a hour but that’s difference between a wrestler and a street brawler…couture is probably looking to weather the storm and hope to catch brock with a sub or maybe a punch later on in the rounds when lesnar is getting tired let his muscles fill with acid and hope he gases…but what if he don’t gas? this could be a great fight on paper and bring alot of hype but both these guys have had fights where the action is less then stellar lay and prey so to speak land enough shots to keep there position and pretty much ride out the round for the score i cant see lesnar being kept on his back not even by couture and randy is a game plan master but his tape on lesnar is still pretty thin you know you got to worry about getting caught with a big punch and if it goes to the ground worry about knees…thats pretty basic info to have and im sure brock will bring more to the next fight at least i hope he will if not my interest in seeing him fight will drop greatly. All in all randy wants Lesnar not the other way around so as fucked up as it is and others being more deserving or have done more to pay there dues to get there shot at the Champ..its Business and its Life if Couture is willing to come back and he is naming fights he wants and Lesnar is the first one he wants then give it to him. His presence will give the HW division a boost in the UFC i just hope he dont take Mr. Lesnar lightly or we might see a Hall of Famer get his ass handed to him. not saying that as a Brock lesnar nutt hugger just for the fact he has man handled bigger fighters up to this point and randy is by Far one of the smallest guys he could face and getting up there in age…im interested to see the odds for this fight if it happens lesnar has been favored over Mir and Herring would the odd makers put him over or put over randy?

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Sep 1, 2008 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This idea has merit, but if they were going to strip Randy of the title, I believe they would of already done it. The unification angle is a nice twist, and you get an extra five round match. Maybe fans will think they are getting more for there money when they order a Couture/Lesnar PPV. I don’t know.

As for Werdum, it’s a tough situation for him. He’s the least marketable of the bunch. If this were all happening within the realm of network or cable TV, the UFC could probably push Werdum in there and not lose much. What MMA fan is not going to watch and event they don’t have to pay for, because it doesn’t involve Couture or Lesnar? The fact is people have to be induced to throw down an extra $45 for an event. Couture and Lesnar are the catalysts to make that happen in a big way.

by Cannon Jacques on Sep 1, 2008 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you, but i think people would pay the $$$ if it was me or you in there against Randy. Randy and Brock are both draws on their own and together would be big, I’m sure.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry...This is too logical

And Dana’s ego will not allow it. I say he punishes Couture and makes him sit and rot after he signs a contract.

The best way to hurt an aging fighter is to keep him on the sidelines, not fight, and then let him fight after some time with ring rust.

Balls in Dana’s court, again.

by dohfil on Sep 1, 2008 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think Dana would turn down the opportunity for big $$$ from the various possible Couture matches over this dispute with Randy? Not likely. If he’s willing to consider letting Tito resign I don’t think he will have a problem with Randy.

by idefinecagefighter on Sep 1, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You really think he’d rather “punish” Couture than put on the biggest MMA PPV ever?

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Sep 1, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dana has stated time and again, that while he thinks Randy is wrong, he has no problem with him personally and actually likes him very much.

No way he passes on probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest ppv draw in the sport, if the opportunity is there.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Dana’s ego stuff is out of control and wrong. He is just trying to maximize profit, like anyone who runs a business. He didn’t set this up to punish Randy, he set it up so he could get a huge PPV out of it.

I suspect we will get radio silence on this until the Monday after UFC 88.

by Michael Rome on Sep 1, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I suspect that they make may the big announcement during UFC 88.

by idefinecagefighter on Sep 1, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they don't, the silence will be deafening to us hardcores.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 1, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spot on as usual, Rome.

Dana’s ego is probably the smallest obstacle to getting a reasonable deal finalized. You can talk about the Fedor standoff, but that’s simply necessary, unfortunately. If he caves to Emilianenko on contract points, his whole stable will revolt and then he’s toast.

Dana was/is willing to work with Tito, who he genuinely seems to hate as a person, because it makes good business sense. Dana is as shrewd of a businessman as we are likely to see in our lifetimes. The guy’s not going to pass up an opportunity to improve his position in the business world, just because it leaves him with a bad taste in his mouth. That’s the mark of a great businessperson.

Just ask Jenna.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Sep 1, 2008 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs