The UFC's Big Choice: Fedor Emelianenko
Robert Joyner has a piece up over at MMA Payout over the increasingly dim prospects for a Randy Couture vs. Fedor Emelianenko fight outside of the UFC:
News on the Randy front also seems to indicate that the odds of this fight happening outside the UFC aren’t good. Sherdog detailed the most recent legal wrangling between Couture and Zuffa, with Friday’s decision for all intents and purposes throwing the legal fight back to Las Vegas and current attempts at arbitration between Couture and the UFC. With the battle being switched over to a Las Vegas venue, the scales are titling away from Randy being free and clear to pursue the Fedor fight outside of the UFC.
The negotiation process for a possible UFC match-up of Randy vs Fedor would be an interesting one. Does the UFC forgo their policy of exclusive contracts in order to bring in Fedor for a one off fight? Randy has two fights left on his contract, but also has a pending deal with Mark Cuban and his HDNet Fights group. Is a bird in the hand (Fedor vs Randy negotiated as the last fight on Randy’s contract) worth two in the bush (having him under contract for two fights they may never get)?
Robert linked a recent interview with Vadim Finkelstein, who indicated a willingness to negotiate a deal to do the fight in the UFC:
I can tell you that if UFC will negotiate with us then this fight can happen this year maybe within the bounds of our joint tournament with UFC. We are ready to negotiate, the fighters are ready, everything is ready, the only deal is with UFC policy headed on their separation and singularity.
I don't think getting Randy to commit to staying with the UFC in exchange for getting this fight would be hard. The tough part is the demands Fedor's people made in the past in exchange for exclusivity: UFC events in Russia, the signing of Fedor's whole team, the elimination of the UFC's right to cut him if he loses, Sambo, and extensive control for Fedor over who he fights. I think that reasonable minds could come to an agreement on all of these things, but nobody said we're dealing with reasonable people here. I think locking Fedor down and making this fight would be a great business move for the UFC, and not just because it would do so well on PPV. By locking down Fedor, they'd effectivelty kill WAMMA and make sure that no other promotion can claim to have the best heavyweight in the world.
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Someone has to give in on the negotiations. I think either way it goes, this fight will favor Fedor in the long run. Only hardcore fans at best know of him, if he does sign a contract with the UFC then he gets the exposure he needs and the validation of his high salary requests.
by lovingmma25 on Aug 4, 2008 12:30 PM EDT 0 recs
i dont care if this fight happens
hes going to be 50 by the time the clear all the legal bs.he signed a contract he should have just honored it.
by Airipsus on Aug 4, 2008 12:32 PM EDT 0 recs
I think the fight is nearly a dead issue, quite frankly. Randy is no match for Fedor, Fedor isn’t a draw and if it were a one-off, UFC would essentially be advertising for rival promotions. Signing Fedor to a long term deal is the real issue at the heart of this situation, not the fight with Randy. And signing Fedor is not about getting a big piece of pie, it’s about having the best fighters in the world in the UFC. And yes, it would deal a huge blow to WAMMA and Affliction (because even though Fedor has yet to be a huge draw in UFC-numbers, he is an integral part of a start up that has, thus far, bled out millions of dollars). Fedor under a long term deal would make the Couture fight a reality. And sure, it’d make a lot of money. But could it risk alienating the hundreds of thousands of people that spend 50 bucks to watch Randy get busted up in one minute? Or could it make Fedor the Mike Tyson of MMA?
by Blackout612 on Aug 4, 2008 12:40 PM EDT 0 recs
It’s hardly a for sure thing it would be a 1 minute fight. I can’t go through this again, but most of Fedor’s fights are not like the Tim fight. If he did murder Randy, the idea of other people trying to knock him off would become a gigantic draw. If anything, Fedor destroying Randy would be good for the UFC if they had him locked down long term.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
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Yeah, if he’s there long term, sure. My downside is that a short fight could be disappointing for casual observers (of which there are many for PPV’s that draw upwards of 500k). UFC would have to have a great supporting card to keep those viewers coming back for anything less than Captain America vs Doctor Doom.
Of course it’s no certainty that Couture will get finished in a minute (I was being a smart ass based on how I think it could go). I personally feel as though Fedor knows how to approach Randy after his bullrush on Timmay—bullrush him. Do you think the old man can stand up to that kind of pressure from a guy like Fedor? It’d be something..
However; should Couture somehow defeat him (which, admittedly, is not beyond the realm of reason, however improbable), I would be elated. It would certainly be one of (if not the) greatest moments in the history of this sport.
by Blackout612 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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I personally feel as though Fedor knows how to approach Randy after his bullrush on Timmay—bullrush him
or possibly Fedor learned how to fight Timmy from watching Randy, looked pretty similar to me
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Aug 4, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
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Sorry man..
..but I didn’t think it looked similar at all. Couture baited Timmay the whole fight.
by Blackout612 on
Aug 4, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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Well
I was refferring to the way the fight went down to begin with,
Randy and Fedor land big shots, take Timmy's back, and go for the RNC
pretty identical if you ask me, granted Randy didn’t get the choke and Fedor did
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Aug 5, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
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If the UFC manages to get Fedor into a long term deal, the best case scenario would be for him to destroy Randy for sure. Randy is pushing 50. I know age hasn’t been an issue with him in the past, but there will come a time when age will catch up with him. I don’t think a 50 year old champ is appealing. The UFC is about continuing its brand with major stars, and Fedor destroying Randy on the premier US MMA league could be huge.
Plus, if they sign Fedor, shows like Affliction have nothing on them. As it is, Affliction is basically chalk-full with UFC cast-offs. I’m not saying they’re not good fighters, because guys like Barnett, Arlovsky and Sylvia are still great fighters, but the UFC can market themselves as the forward-thinking, progressive and young brand, vs other promotions that have fighters that a) aren’t good enough for the UFC or b) are UFC hasbeens and castoffs. Why bother with sloppy seconds when you can have the newest and best all under one organization?
by pud333 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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I agree with this logic. Even if Fedor did sign a short-term deal, if he were to beat an established UFC star, UFC would pay to keep him.
I also don’t think Fedor would necessarily beat Randy that quickly. Tim Sylvia has never been able to handle fighters who come out looking to punch his head off. Arlovski dropped him right away in consecutive fights. His killer instinct won him the fight once, and he got caught the second time, but that doesn’t change the fact that Tim usually folds like a tin box when pressured. Fedor/Randy would be a different fight. I see Fedor winning, and likely getting a finish. But it wouldn’t come right away. I would guess a third round TKO or arm bar would be more likely. Either way, I still would love to see the fight.
by Popetastic on
Aug 4, 2008 1:32 PM EDT
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And yes, it has to be an exclusive contract. Dana would have to be a complete idiot to do a 1 fight deal.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
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Fedor is a non win for anybody
Whoever thinks Randy VS Fedor will be a blockbuster PPV is delusional.
Randy was a big name a year ago. He’s been out of the lime light far too long.
Fedor is a chubby Russian who doesn’t speak English. Casual fans don’t know him nor care about him (proof: Affliction 1).
The hard core MMA fans are too small a group to sustain the asking price of Fedor’s delusional management team. The boxing fans don’t care about the boxing heavyweight king, so why would the even smaller contingent of MMA fans care? The casual fans couldn’t care less about Fedor. Fedor doesn’t have any value outside of a circle of MMA fans and the Sherdog forum. The heavyweight division isn’t even close to the popularity of the LHW, welterweight, or even lightweight.
Furthermore, the Russian’s trying to deal Fedor like he’s the equivalent of Michael Jordan, asking for crazy money with a non-exclusive deal. Fedor will never fight for the UFC. Count on it.
by cyph on Aug 4, 2008 1:11 PM EDT 0 recs
Randy/Fedor might not be a blockbuster PPV, but it sets up blockbusters for the future. Randy last fought a year ago. He hasn’t been in the limelight, but UFC fans haven’t forgotten him. If he walks in he cage, it will draw PPV buys. If Fedor beats him, he becomes a much bigger name. At Affliction, the crowd went crazy for Fedor. The event happened in the US. I think that while Fedor might not be a huge name among casual fans, he’s not anonymous like people seem to always suggest. It only took Wanderlei one fight (which he lost) to become hugely popular with UFC fans. I expect it would be similar with Fedor.
by Popetastic on
Aug 4, 2008 1:36 PM EDT
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It would be a blockbuster. Most people in the PPV industry think that outside the UFC it would do in the neighborhood of 200,000, and would likely set the UFC record.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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Can we really expect it to do big ppv numbers when Randy’s last two ppv’s didn’t do over 600,000 buys, I may be off a bit, but I don’t think Randy has ppv pull.
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:42 PM EDT
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He actually has tremendous PPV pull. He was going against a negative draw in Tim Sylvia, and a complete unknown in Gonzaga. The hype aroudn this fight and the easy build with the Fedor footage would make it a monster. Not to mention all the mainstream coverage that would come.
By the way, Chuck Liddell’s fight the next month after Randy where Forrest-Shogun was on the undercard only did 475,000 buys. Randy did the two highest non-Liddell PPVs of 2006.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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Unfortunately in 2006, UFC never really got a maximum return out of Randy on top cause they never got to put him against another star in an intriguing match (feud or otherwise).
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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I guess I can see now where this might be a big draw. I just tend to think that this year or so off will have a negative effect on Randy’s return.
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:54 PM EDT
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Honestly, I think the anticipation and build for his return will make it even bigger. Plus you tell the story about how this is the only fight left that he’s willing to do, and he waited for it…I think the anticipation will catch on.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
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Good point the UFC can and will probably spin it that way. I just hope that before Randy leaves the UFC again that he fights Big Nog.
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:58 PM EDT
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wouldn’t he have to fight Big Nog first to unify the title ? I don’t see the ufc letting him fight fedor and having two hw titles
by fanaddict on
Aug 4, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
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Randy says he only wants to fight Fedor. Maybe if the fight happens in the UFC – it will be a “super fight” or something like that. If by chance he does fight Big Nog first and loses to him, wouldn’t that negate his fight with Fedor? I mean who would want to see Randy fight Fedor then?
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 3:09 PM EDT
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If the UFC managed to tie Fedor down with a long-term contract (the only way they’d let him fight there, they will not do a non-exclusive contract), they’d probably just start with the Fedor-Randy fight. If they didn’t want to do that, they could pit Nog against Fedor (and not mention their previous matches) to further build Fedor up as an unstoppable machine (and the only person Randy wants to fight before retiring).
Sadly, I think all of this will be moot because I just don’t see Fedor’s management team settling for an exclusive long-term contract and I don’t see the UFC signing him to a non-exclusive contract or a 1-fight contract.
by Estrada on
Aug 4, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
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Well
If they don’t go the UFC route…they will live in obscurity.
http://tharealness.wordpress.com/
by Tha Realness on
Aug 4, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
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Maybe they can work on who will promote the fight, who will get the arena for the fight and so on so that the behind the seen production costs, marketing costs and what nots are split 50/50. That way both have a say in the matter.
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 4:30 PM EDT
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if....
If the UFC can get an exclusive contract on fedor they effectively kill affliction and wamma… However they will most definitely die on their own. The UFC will only end their misery.
I said it before all these other leagues trying to compete with the UFC are only creating stars for them.
Affliction will probably retaliate by signing ortiz.
The UFC needs to lock fedor down – he is the real deal so now they know he wont “cro-cop” them.
Even if he loses a fight he is the type to get even better.
at the end of affliction whoever come out on top will be signed by the UFC and the rest will be kicked to the curb.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2008 1:17 PM EDT 0 recs
finklestiens eyes opened up...
here’s the real deal…
It’s no secret finklestien is using fedor as leverage to get his other interests going (m1, other fighters)... in fact fedor is his only leverage.
His eyes half opened up.
He realized if fedor had that performance against tim or someone else in the UFC his “leverage” (fedor) would have been worth a lot more.
Obviously he believes he can negotiate out of the exclusivity… but that’s neither here nor there.
Finklestiens ultimate goal is to get to the UFC.
Getting paid well and winning is meaningless if no one saw it.
If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it did the tree actually fall?
also old finkle boy has overseas footage rights of his fight not that the UFC needs it as they have the entire pride library.
they should make the coutore fedor fight a potential 3 fight trilogy.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2008 1:25 PM EDT 0 recs
Meh....
I’m honestly more pumped for a potential Fedor/winner of Barnett vs. AA fight than Fedor/Randy.
by Tonley on Aug 4, 2008 1:31 PM EDT 0 recs
When Affliction disappears in six months, Andrei will be a free agent again. So maybe the UFC becomes the home for big HW fights again.
by Popetastic on
Aug 4, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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Andrei did leave on good terms so he’ll definitely be back – no questions asked.
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
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me as well, but having the Fedor/Randy fight in the UFC vs, say Affliction, would be HUGE.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Aug 4, 2008 2:31 PM EDT
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no way Randy actually wants to fight Fedor. Nobody really want to fight Fedor.
He is just looking to get paid for a big draw. Which it would be.
by Rob Dib on Aug 4, 2008 2:18 PM EDT 0 recs
After the Timmay fight, he looked like he previously agreed to help his friend move and then saw how much shit he had in his apartment.
by Blackout612 on
Aug 4, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
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Fedor would destroy him—Yes, probably he would. There is little question that Fedor is the top HW in the world, HOWEVER, no mma fighter is unbeatable.
Fedor isn’t a draw—Not a big one in the US right now, HOWEVER, he would become huge if he was in the UFC. How many of UFC’s big names were draws in the US before they went to the UFC??
Forget the counter programming, be reasonable, get Fedor in the UFC, and that would about finish Affliction off. I’m not saying that is or isn’t what I want to happen, only what the result would be.
Not only would they have the best HW, they would have a big lure to get the rest of the top HWs into the UFC.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on Aug 4, 2008 2:26 PM EDT 0 recs
AND, being a smaller HW, there are intriguing fights from within the LHW division as well, Chuck and the former Pride gang, for example.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Aug 4, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
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Really, I should be the third party arbitrator, but not between Randy and Zuffa, as I am extremely biased against Randy on that one.
No, I should be the third party arbitrator between Zuffa and Finklestein. As long as each side is willing to give a little to get a lot, I can get a deal between the two parties done in a matter of a few small concessions, which I will address as they were mentioned in the topic article.
1. A UFC event in Russia
Ok, done. Now, under the guideline that the event is co-promoted by M-1, this becomes a much greater issue. However, I think that can be covered with…
2. The signing of Fedor’s whole team
Well, not quite. Zuffa agrees to sign Fedor and Aleksander (provided he earns a clean bill of health), Roman Zentsov (who can become fodder for up and coming heavyweights), Amar Suloev (another talented, boarder line top 20 Middleweight), and Gegard Moussasi should he become available from DREAM.
The rest of the team (aka the guys even the hardcores barely, if at all, recognize) will appear on the UFC event(s) in Russia, though not necessarily all on the same show. In this way, the management team (aka Fiklestein) will recoup additional monies as percentages of the contracts of fighters appearing on the event(s) that he manages, which is essentially a means of meeting half way on the issue of co-promoting in Russia (if that is, in fact, an issue).
Zuffa, of course, would be eligible to sign the remaining fighters to contracts with either of their fight promotions to compete in the US if Zuffa so chooses.
3. The elimination of UFC’s right to cut Fedor if he loses.
If Fedor loses in a title match, whether he is the champion or the challenger, he will not be cut. If he loses in a non-title match, he is eligible to be cut.
4. Sambo
That is, the Russian national combat sambo tournament. First of all, there is no inclination that anyone has any hope of competing, let alone defeating Fedor in the competition, so I think this is not as great an issue as it was made out to be by Zuffa. However, there is a very real possibility that Fedor could end up injured during competition. I say let Fedor compete in his national combat sambo tournament, and should he be defeated (unlikely) or be injured (more likely), the UFC will have the opportunity to bring in the fighter who beat/injured Fedor for an MMA (re)match, which given their track record, could be promoted to do a good buyrate. And they could have the rematch on the Russian show to add that additional element to it.
4. Extensive control over who Fedor fights.
My initial thought is to give Fedor several choices for non-title fights and no choice for title fights, but realistically there will be very few of the former and very many of the latter, so that won’t quite work. I believe a system in which Joe Silva (and Dana, if he so chooses) determine a list of eligible challengers from which Finklestein (and Fedor, if he even has a say) can choose. The number of fighters on the list would be determined by Silva/White with no fewer than two fighters being presented as challengers to Fedor. However, in the case of an interim champion being available or UFC purchases a rival promotion with a heavyweight champion that they’d like to have fight Fedor immediately, Fedor would be required to face the opponent Silva/White assign to him.
An example of this would be:
Champion: Fedor
Interim Champion: Nogueira
IFL Champion: Roy Nelson
For the sake of argument, let’s assume Fedor has beaten Randy to become the UFC Heavyweight champion. Now, Nogueira is still out there, having held the interim title for about a year. Under my proposal, if Silva/White present Fedor with a fight against Nogueira, Fedor and co. must accept. Likewise, if Roy Nelson, the IFL Heavyweight champion is signed to the UFC and for some ridiculous reason Silva/White wish to feed him to Fedor, Fedor must accept the fight.
Let’s look at another example.
Champion: Fedor
Fedor beats Nogueira (again)
Fedor beats Nelson
Therefore, there are no outstanding “champions” for Fedor to face. In this scenario, Silva/White would present two or more challengers to Fedor’s title to Fedor/Finklestein. Fedor/Finkelstein would then determine which challenger they wish to face. However, they must choose a challenger from the list (i.e. they may not veto the entire list).
Problems would arise if a Lyoto Machida-type fighter worked his way to be a challenger and Silva/White wish to put a fight together with Fedor, but a more attractive opponent is available. However, there would be a rematch clause in which Zuffa would select any rematches for Fedor. In this way, though an opponent may have to wait a few months longer than they’d care to, they will ultimately be assured of a title shot against Fedor, assuming both the challenger and Fedor continue to win all of their fights leading up to their match.
Well, that’s the general idea, anyhow. I recognize that I lack a certain understanding of the finer points of contract legalities and other scenarios which I didn’t cover here. But at least these are some talking points worth considering, and probably worth accepting or calling me a dope for suggesting. Either way, it should be fun.
by Brett Jones on Aug 4, 2008 2:28 PM EDT 1 recs
if the ufc wants to sign Fedor
wouldn’t the have to wait till next year anyway because Fedor want to fight on new year in japan with dream ?
by fanaddict on Aug 4, 2008 2:41 PM EDT 0 recs
The UFC does not need this fight at all. Sure it would be a great cherry on the the top but thats all. The only way this fight happens is if they can Sign Fedor to a exclusive Contract for a large number of fights, And buy the sounds of Vadim Finkelstein that is still not going to happen he him self says in the interview he wants the UFC to promote this fight with M-1 Global together. Come on Vlad you must be smoking Crack Why the hell would the UFC ever do that and give another organization press and exposur. It just makes no sence what so ever for them in a business sence they don’t need this fight at all. It comes down to one thing and that is eather Fedor gives into the demands or we will never see this fight it’s that simple.The UFC will never ever ever co promote with M-! or any other organization so please people just get that idea out of your mind. If Fedor was smart he would sign a huge exclusive contract with the UFC becasue when Affliction,Dreams and Elite Go under like we all know they are and its looks like alot sooner then later from the info out this week about all 3 of those orgs the UFC will be the only big show around and the only place for him to fight unless he just wants to keep jumping form start up Org to start up Org.
by Shocbomb on Aug 4, 2008 2:55 PM EDT 0 recs
Why does Vadim have so much say over Fedor? Have we heard anything about the situation straight from Fedor?
by lovingmma25 on
Aug 4, 2008 3:05 PM EDT
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Another thing to remember is that for the Afflction fight, Fedor and co got the international rights to the show.
Down the line, if Affliction wanted to use that footage in Europe, they would actually have to pay Fedor.
The UFC is not going to give him that kind of control.
by Lynchman on Aug 4, 2008 7:04 PM EDT 0 recs
It’s kind of a funny concession. I wonder if they gave him rights to PPV buys once they start doing over a million per show.
by Michael Rome on
Aug 4, 2008 11:00 PM EDT
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