Quote of the Back in the Day: Tito Ortiz's Submission Acumen

by Luke Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 4:15 PM EDT in News Comment 13 comments

"Whether you love him or hate him, Tito is a very skilled fighter. He has a very well rounded game, but his strength is certainly his ability to put you on the floor and keep you there while he lands a barrage of punches and elbows. His submission game is underrated. He spends a lot of time with submission guru Dean Lister and it shows. He hasn't relied on it much in his fights, but the ability is there. He showed it time and again in the training camp of mine he attended in Sacramento, Calif. prior to Vitor Belfort III. He submitted almost everyone in camp, including me."

-- Randy Couture, in a Sherdog.com column published on April 13, 2006. This was two days prior to UFC 59: Reality Check where Ortiz decisioned Couture teammate Forrest Griffin.

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It’s interesting. He may need to really add this aspect of his game to his fights if he wants to hang with good guys in 2008. He did come that close to submitting a great black belt in Lyoto Machida.

by Michael Rome on Aug 20, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He needs to something other than shooting in from 12 ft away and weak punches/kicks…that’s for sure.

http://mma4real.net/

by Tha Realness on Aug 20, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll believe it when I see it

No disrespect to Randy, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Being ‘that close’ to a submission doesn’t constitute acumen on the ground. Tapping people out does. I don’t mean to suggest Tito has no ground skills. It’s rumored Chuck has a great ground game too…I’m not willing to be sold on that one either until I witness both first hand.

And I definitely agree with TR in that wide-open shots and weak striking should probably change too, or Tito will be going the way of the dinosaur.

by Dabashire on Aug 20, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

“Whether you love him or hate him, Tito is a very skilled fighter. He has a very well rounded game”

A very well rounded game?? LMAO…

by steveoc24 on Aug 20, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, the submission attempt Ortiz had with Machida wasn’t really close to being locked in.

http://mma4real.net/

by Tha Realness on Aug 20, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tell that to Lyoto Machida.

by Michael Rome on Aug 20, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, Tha Realness is right. Machida popped his shoulder out the the triangle shortly before Tito’s legs fully closed. Machida then pulled his upper arm out of Tito’s crotch, denying Tito the leverage necessary for a proper armbar. Machida then brute forced his way out of Tito’s grip. In short, Machida stayed just barely one step ahead in order to prevent being locked in. Tito really never had a solid chance.

by Flying Gogoplata on Aug 21, 2008 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, which is why he was moving it into a triangle/armbar. He lost it to Machida’s credit, but either way he was very close to pulling off the impossible against a very good black belt. He also would have submitted Rashad Evans with a tight guillotine if the round hadn’t ended. He clearly has some submission skill, and I really doubt people on this board can speak to it better than a guy who has done submission wrestling with him and been submitted by him.

by Michael Rome on Aug 21, 2008 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You make an excellent point about our abilities to

judge someone like Tito’s submission game, or Chuck’s wrestling ability. If we never get a chance to see it, we can’t really make an informed judgment. This isn’t baseball, where you get 162+ games per season to see guys for all their splendor and shortcomings.

That said, I never trust what the athletes tell me about their skills, their teammates skills, or their opponents skills. It’s not that I think they’re purposefully deceitful, quite the contrary. I think these guys are too close to the action to give the proper perspective.

But I’m in the camp that believes Tito has an underrated submission game (Machida defended well, but if he hadn’t been such an excellent BJJ guy, there’s not much doubt in my mind that Tito would have submitted him). Which is good for him, because his telegraphed shots have to either revamped or removed entirely from his gameplan. I wince whenever I see him try for a takedown these days..I am literally less obvious when I shoot, and I haven’t wrestled in like seven years. Tito with good submissions and fewer (of his style) shots is a better fighter.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 21, 2008 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because I can

by mythbuster on Aug 21, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Randy saying that means nothing. Randy is no sub expert, hell he’s been subbed a few times himself in comp. It’s not like a Gracie said this. Then mixed with the fact that Randy was never in danger in his match with Tito. He was so comfortable that he even gave him a little spanking at the end of the 3’rd. I don’t really get the point of this article though.

by Tommy7 on Aug 20, 2008 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

“I don’t really get the point of this article though.”

Understatement of the century.

by Luke Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So what’s your point to posting this today Luke? I say one thing yesterday and suddenly your a dick? Decide to wait to a new post to strike back? Let go of that thing and allow someone else to touch it once in awhile.

by Tommy7 on Aug 20, 2008 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs