EliteXC Wants to Conquer the Pay-Per-View Market
I can scarcely fathom a scenario where this can happen. EliteXC wasn't even able to host a successful sophomore effort on free television. To think they can cajole casual MMA fans who view EliteXC and Kimbo Slice more with curiosity than fan loyalty to then shell out money in lieu of or in addition to what they currently spend on the UFC (that includes both time and money) or other sports requires an imagination superior to mine. The Pro Elite federation arguably doesn't have the depth to even do a one-off successful event on PPV, much less to do so consistently against the regular efforts of the UFC. Yet, it appears Pro Elite needs to do so to stay in business long term. Dave Meltzer explains:
DeLuca, just before his resignation, noted that television was not paying enough to sustain the company. That’s a key reason why Elite XC ended up on CBS in the first place. The network had been in serious talks with UFC, but UFC didn’t feel the terms were acceptable, even with all the advantages of network prestige and potential increases in viewership.
The CBS deal calls for a $1 million stock purchase every time they televise a show, and an undisclosed but smaller rights fee. DeLuca noted the only way to sustain the promotion long-term is to be successful on pay-per-view, which up to this point nobody in the MMA business has been able to make work financially except UFC.
Elite XC company had talked about doing a pay-per-view early next year, but it’s hard to put together a lineup that would work with UFC dominating that marketplace with monthly shows.
That's putting it mildly, Dave.
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"EliteXC Wants to Conquer the Pay-Per-View Market"
Fat Chance!
The first show on CBS was turrible, just plain turrible as Sir Charles would say.
The second show was better and I enjoyed it, somewhat.
Still, I wouldn’t pay to watch it. Too bad UFC’s deal didn’t go through. Get to work Dana!
by xFenixKnightx on
Aug 19, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
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I hope they do put on a PPV. That would be great.
Then by next summer we can have Diaz and Lawler back in the UFC and sign Silva and Shields also.
by steveoc24 on
Aug 19, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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Game over...
Yup, good point. Shields openly said he wanted to challenge the winner of GSP/Fitch.
by dmayeda on
Aug 19, 2008 1:21 PM EDT
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They can’t or won’t even make the matches people want to see. Why would anyone pay $20-30 to watch Kimbo be protected? They seem scared to make the tough matches, that’s a big downfall to them.
by Tommy7 on
Aug 19, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
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I think they are building to tough matches, with the hope that you will pay to see those tough matches…example Carano vs cyborg…
Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"
by robnashville on
Aug 19, 2008 3:32 PM EDT
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If they have the right matches it will be worth it, I guess. Set Kimbo and Brett Rogers for the #1 contender. Rematch Noons and Diaz as title fight. Fight Carano and Cyborg for #1 girl on the planet. Unless you like Tara Lagrossa better. Maybe a Lawler vs Ninja Rua rematch. Maybe let Scott Smith and Kyle Noke fight or an Edwards vs Crazy Horse fight just for fun. Point is the have some people, they just seem scared to sacrifice any of them.
by Tommy7 on
Aug 19, 2008 3:50 PM EDT
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going PPV would be the final nail in the coffin. Sad really because I think the EXC product has the potential to be better than any of the UFC competitors (affliction included).
by pr0cs on
Aug 19, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
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The PPV scenario for this promotion is absolutely nuts. I believe someone commented that PPV is EXC’s “Hex.” That assertion may be correct. ProElite’s only longshot chance at survival is Oct. 4. Even if they’re successful enough to allow CBS a reason to keep them alive, it will only buy them time. Maybe they could do something with some extra time. I don’t really see it. I certainly can’t envision a successful foray into PPV in their future.
by Cannon Jacques on
Aug 19, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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good memory…
I knew the “hex” would catch on soon enough :)
by mmalogic on
Aug 19, 2008 9:32 PM EDT
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I think its just all coming down to time and time is running out on Elite XC. There one star Kimbo sure you can keep feeding him cans but that will fail after awhile and the casual fans will want to see him fight a real fighter. If the rumors are true and they are banking there first PPV selling late next winter or early spring on a fight between
Kimbo-vs-Ken Shamrock they better start looking for another opponent quick for Kimbo. Ken Shamrock is not going to Sell shit let alone PPV numbers any more He can’t even make the rating on Cage Rage go up.Another thing they are playing with fire with is when it comes to there other star Gina Carano is Elite will be fucked one of these days if before a show she comes in overweight and her opponent backs out of the fight. They are banking there whole dam future on these 2 UNREAL.
by Shocbomb on
Aug 19, 2008 2:18 PM EDT
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Yawn. More of the same entry level analysis. Let’s review, shall we?
-Showtime has a PPV division. Used to be known as SET, in fact.
-Kimbo Slice: Non-Draw as talking point is pretty mindboggling. He only drew the largest TV audience in history ever and won. Meanwhile, pro wrestlers who are claimed to have drawn 300,000 new buys all on their own (of fans that supposedly were the MMA base anyhow) loses in 90 seconds and no one dares to question their drawing potential in the future.
-Showtime and CBS: Have histories of having contracted talent themselves in fight sport. Part owners in ProElite.
-Fighting on TV: Boxing travelled to HBO, Showtime, and PPV years ago because the money was way better. They are still there for the same exact reasons.
-ProElite and PPV: Their intentions from the beginning were to run them and they were open about saying so.
So let’s put all this together. Kimbo Slice is, regardless of what people imagine, the largest draw and biggest name in MMA right now in North America. Assuming he gets some sort of can for CBS and beats him (exceedingly likely) and pulls a similar number to last time (also exceedingly likely), why is it again that Viacom would not be interested in bankrolling the PPV of the most popular fighter in the sport? What is it about the company that put Tyson/McBride on PPV paying Kimbo Slice that seems so outrageous?
by D.Capitated on
Aug 19, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
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because...
Kimbo Slice is an Internet phenom. The thing about the Internet is that the Internet likes things free. The Internet doesn’t like to pay for things (pr0n, warez, etc.). And oh yeah, Kimbo Slice isn’t as popular as you think. It’s one thing for viewers to tune in for free, it’s another to pony up $40 bucks.
by cyph on
Aug 19, 2008 2:31 PM EDT
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Kimbo Slice is the guy doing Nike commercials and has 6 million people watching him on TV. If 5% of that crowd buys a Kimbo PPV, Showtime is rolling in money.
by D.Capitated on
Aug 19, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
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Was that Nike commercial about him? I think Kimbo is what you call an accessory.
Do you really, honestly, truly believe that even 5% of the viewers would pay for PPV after the abortion of a show that Elite put up? If hardcore fans won’t pay for it, why in the world would casual fans do it? People who pay are always hardcore fans, and they are the opinion leaders. The casual fans only pay for the best of the best offerings out there. There is nothing in EliteXC that screams “best” at anything.
by cyph on
Aug 19, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
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Kimbo is an “accessory” because he’s a huge name right now. When Sports Illustrated and Forbes picked athletes that they saw potentially being major money makers, they picked Kimbo for MMA. Maybe SI doesn’t understand sports and Forbes business?
5% is next to nothing percentage wise. Its like 1/10th of what the UFC has been able to do for converting those watching TV to PPV in some months. The idea that there are 6 million 4chan’ers watching CBS for Kimbo and no one else is far more outlandish to me.
by D.Capitated on
Aug 19, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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In marketing besides a compelling message only one thing is important and that is “REPETITION”
How do you sell a ppv with a show once every 3 months?
Those 6 million viewers benefited zuffa more than it did Elite…
IF you doubt that look at the ratings of the tuf right after, and the wec… not to mention the ppv buys being higher than expected.
I made this analysis before the May 31 show and the proof is apparent…
whatever new fans cbs generates they will flow into the UFC’s funnel because they have weekly programming.
I said it before and Ill say it again if you try to compete with zuffa your building their fan base and/or building them stars… not to mention making their recruiting decisions easier by see who ends up winning and losing in shows paid for by competing orgs.
FInally I think you give kimbo too much credit…
Not only was he exposed to casual fans but to the media who don’t like being made fools of.
by mmalogic on
Aug 19, 2008 9:43 PM EDT
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Kimbo is a draw, but there is no evidence that he can carry a PPV. There were other things at work to help the first EXC on CBS draw the ratings it did. It was hyped during the NCAA tournament, it was the first live MMA event on network TV, and competition during that time of the year wasn’t that stiff. To ignore these other factors is a mistake. I would say that 5% of the peak number of 6 million people won’t spend $30-40 to watch Kimbo on PPV. We’ll see what numbers he and Gina pull on the next free show. I’m, personally, not too optimistic about that show’s success.
by Cannon Jacques on
Aug 19, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
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There’s no evidence he can because he hasn’t had to yet post-CBS. He’s been on one event for CFFC and it had no buys, possibly because not even hardcores knew about it and it was billed as an exhibition.
Kimbo’s next fight is going to be hyped during NFL football games and follows a CBS telecast featuring no one any casual fans were really aware of that was still among the 10 most watched shows (quite possibly top 5, in fact) in the history of the sport.
by D.Capitated on
Aug 19, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
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This is just sad. I don’t know what echo chamber you bounced these ideas around, but it’s not helping you.
And to be honest, I don’t mind you filling in the role of contrarian regarding every single thing I say. But if you have a need to be insulting, do so somewhere else. This is the site that I and others write on. Criticize the ideas all you want. I don’t care about that. But you’re being disparaging with “entry level analysis”. Please. I run one of the largest and most successful blogs in the entire sport, I have my own radio show about MMA on CBS radio, I’ve color commentated a televised event and am just getting started. There are even gigs behind the scenes I’m still working out I can’t announce yet. None of that, mind you, was handed to me. I earned it. Since you seem to think you have the trump card for every argument and angle, I can scarcely figure out what you’re doing hanging out around here. You should be out doing more than “entry level analysis” putting me and everyone else out of business.
But you don’t. You hang around here waiting for someone to float an idea – any idea – so you can play One Upsmanship with the guys who’ve actually accomplished something. It’s your way of leveling the playing field. But you’re not leveling anything. You’re wrong, but because you are exceedingly annoying, you’re hard to argue with. No one wants to engage you because it’s not productive or informative. You run with ideas as if they are self evident when, in fact, they are highly questionable. In fact, I could pull your one trick, too. I could wait until you write something just to pick holes in it. You’ll quickly find it’s exceedingly annoying.
So consider this your warning. If you want to list the points you do in the above comment, I have no problem with that. A couple are worth discussion. But the insults have to go. If it’s so taxing to read my work or the work of some other writer here, start your own blog. I would never go to a site with a reader I thought was continually off base. Do what you do over there. But save us the act. You’re not the first person to do it nor the last. We’ve seen this before. I’m just no longer willing to suffer through it.
by Luke Thomas on
Aug 19, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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I reply because that is my position here. I read your articles. I reply. That’s the hierarchy.
In any case, my frustration isn’t as much with you as it is the person you linked to. You know, the same guy who talks about how he’s the only man to understand DA BIZ but can’t think of terms to define Hatton/Mayweather other than that its the Dusty/Flair of a new generation.
by D.Capitated on
Aug 19, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
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Meltzer is only like the Godfather of MMA analyst and has been doing it for years and years… but whatever. You’re right and he’s wrong.
Having argued with you at FightOpinion in the past, it truly is annoying because you think you are never wrong and never, ever concede a point. How’s Huerta looking now? You still think Lesnar won’t sell PPV? How often are you wrong and how often are you right?
Oh yeah, you always, always, always get the last words. So I believe the trend continues here.
by cyph on
Aug 19, 2008 3:09 PM EDT
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I can’t say I really know the argument here, nor do I care. What I can say is: it comes with the job, part of it. If you milk cows for a living, you wouldn’t get mad at the cow when one pisses on you
by Tommy7 on
Aug 19, 2008 4:05 PM EDT
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Please. This isn’t about hailing me. It’s about abiding by the rules of commenting here, i.e. not being insulting to the people who try to produce quality work everyday. That extends far beyond me.
by Luke Thomas on
Aug 19, 2008 4:41 PM EDT
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“Please. I run one of the largest and most successful blogs in the entire sport, I have my own radio show about MMA on CBS radio, I’ve color commentated a televised event and am just getting started. There are even gigs behind the scenes I’m still working out I can’t announce yet. None of that, mind you, was handed to me.”
This is what made me make that comment. Life isn’t handed to anyone. Yet your right, kill the damn cow for pissing on you. Won’t make any milk tomorrow but whatever.
by Tommy7 on
Aug 19, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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Sorry, today’s theme is “OMG EXC DOOMED”. Please do not obscure that with your “facts”
Seriously though, between all the Kimbo matchups and the potential for a Shamrock vs. Shamrock match, they obviously have some PPV ammunition. So maybe LT’s imagination just sucks.
by smoogy on
Aug 19, 2008 3:10 PM EDT
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Just out of curiosity, will you be buying an EXC PPV if they put one on?
by Richard Wade on
Aug 19, 2008 3:44 PM EDT
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In unrelated news...
the arena football league has announced they plan on launching a new championship game that will put the superbowl to shame
by dt3 on
Aug 19, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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Dana White : “I’m in the PPV business, every decision i make is geared towards increasing ppv buys…”
I’m actually the guy that asked Deluca that question about PPV, on the last conference call before the 7/26 card. I asked the question because the only model for financial success in the MMA business is Strong Television feeding viewers into buying PPV’s. One without the other and you are doomed for failure. It aint the most original of thoughts, i’ll admit, but it seems to be self evident. This is a point i’ve kind of harped on over where I write…. taking Affliction and EliteXC to task for either doing one or the other but neither doing both…..
The UFC before the TUF show got on the air was $40 million in the hole and either would have been sold or put in bankruptcy at some point. Once they paired their PPV’s to strong TV, they had a license to print money.
If EliteXC stay on free tv via CBS exclusively… they make no money……..they stand pat….. they die
If they try to use their TV to sell PPV’s, to monetize their network deal …… they are at least trying to make money, and perpetuate their promotion…
If EliteXC never had plans to get on PPV, then they should have never even sold their first share or put on their first fight.
If they don’t try to use this oct 4th show to set up a 09 ppv featuring carano and slice, they should just go ahead and close up shop right now……… likely to the cheers of some folks in this thread
Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"
by robnashville on
Aug 19, 2008 3:13 PM EDT
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Not all of us are wishing the death of EliteXC. I think free MMA on network TV is a great thing. However, EliteXC is putting the cart before the horse if they put on a PPV any time soon. They have to establish a following of fans, a brand and awareness.
Right now, there’s nothing compelling about Kimbo Slice VS a can that would make me or anyone else want to put money down for PPV. What’s better, trying to break even to live another day while building the brand, or blow your their wad on a failing endeavor?
by cyph on
Aug 19, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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“trying to break even to live another day while building the brand,”
they aren’t breaking even…… they are losing money…… they have burned through all of their start up money and are going hat in hand every few months to CBS to fund themselves..when they try to cut expenses to save money (like canceling the9/20 show) the mma press goes chicken little on them …. if they had the luxury of time, then yeah…. that would be a great idea.to build the brand ..but they don’t….
but what do I know….I’m just a sherdog fanboy…….
Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"
by robnashville on
Aug 19, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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Well, then, I guess EliteXC is going to fail. They had a flawed business plan and they failed in their execution.
You’re still upset about that comment, aren’t you?
by cyph on
Aug 19, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
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What do you know?
You know that over 13m was executive and administrative costs…
You know they had alot of capital.
You know they had showtime as a TV partner from the beginning.
Oh and by the way eite xc tried PPV… and it was a dismal failure.
Continue patting yourself on the back for asking a question about when their going to get into ppv as their going out of business.
I don’t want elite xc to go out of business I just don’t think they have any choice…
Changing tactics will not fix a flawed strategy. It’s like invading iraq and trying to change tactics to make it a success… It doesn’t work that way.
I recommended a while ago an all female league where you have less competition bidding on your talent.
I appreciate the UFC for looking out for their bottom line… you know why? because that ensures I get consistent and quality MMA on a regular basis.
I just can’t stand the writers who deep down know… deep down realize… but can’t stand to accept the reality that Dana and Zuffa is the reason they have a job… and it kills them inside so much so they carry an agenda in their work.
The agenda is so apparent to the extent where the writer is trying to convince himself that even though all the evidence points to this that somehow it can’t be true… there must be something else. Ah yes there is another org that will dethrone them.
And every day that goes by Zuffa solidifies their position more and more and more.
BE is the home of agenda free MMA content and the high level discussions we have here which you robnashville contribute often to is a breath of fresh air.
Even Dcapitated’s comments are good as a devils advocate will force us to think more and be more creative (minus the insults of course).
Here are the questions that needs to be asked:
How come the MMA blogs arent going out of business and these orgs are? In fact everyday there’s a new blog.
How come MMA clothing companies are thriving more and more and these orgs are dying?
What’s the correlation here?
Basically if you compete against zuffa you’re done.
Imagine if you took that 30m and created a franchise gym prototype which you can joint venture with marquee fighters in their local areas.
Imagine if you took that 30m and created a local farm league across the country… Monte Cox had a beautiful model of small shows he would use to build his fighters who he would then make money from as a manager when they went onto the UFC.
Why not can that process clone it and sell it as a franchise across the country.
Imagine if you took that 30m and created a female league.
Imagine if you took that 30m and…
Bottom line every business that decided to ride the wave has blossomed, every venture that tried to take the wave on has been crushed.
This is the reality of “MMA”. These are the real questions that needs to be asked and acted upon.
by mmalogic on
Aug 19, 2008 10:43 PM EDT
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The Iraq example is a poor one what with the change in tactics (the surge) being wildly successful.
by Richard Wade on
Aug 19, 2008 11:55 PM EDT
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if you looks at the grand scheme of things the surge did nothing…
At the end of the day the US is going bankrupt, It created a new ally for Iran, took away a check against iran and fundamentalism (Sadaam would hang any fundamentalist and was a mortal enemy of Iran)
Strategic flaw can’t be fixed by changing tactics…
by mmalogic on
Aug 20, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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You made a couple points that are just incredibly wrong, but this really isn’t the place for a discussion on this topic.
by Richard Wade on
Aug 20, 2008 5:20 PM EDT
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the thread is dead anyway… I would like to discuss this. You can’t just so your wrong and leave it at that.
you can email if you like mmalogic@ymail.com
The Iraq invasion was the biggest strategic foreign policy blunder in the history of this country.
Iraq is the perfect example… of when you have a flawed strategy no matter what tactic your just spinning your wheels.
by mmalogic on
Aug 20, 2008 9:18 PM EDT
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I really don’t see the people in this thread cheering the death of ProElite. The promotion’s management placed themselves in the difficult position of being underfunded. That’s great that they’re trying to be responsible, and canceling events that they can’t afford to do, but it’s pretty late to start implementing a strategy that the UFC currently utilizes. Most here are, rightly, skeptical of their ability to incorporate PPV.
There are key differences between ProElite and the UFC when the Fertitas took control. First, there wasn’t a strong domestic competitor to the UFC. Now, the UFC is that strong competitor. Second, the Fertitas could throw as much of their own money at the promotion as they wanted. It was their money; they could spend until they couldn’t take it anymore. ProElite has a responsibility to its different shareholders. These shareholders will want some kind of return on their investment, no new investors (equity investors or creditors) seem to be willing to step up with more funding – that is, besides CBS.
ProElite’s problems don’t lie at the feet of the MMA media. It’s due to mismanagement. If they are unable to execute their PPV plans, it’s because the promotion’s brass failed their investors.
by Cannon Jacques on
Aug 19, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
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ProElite’s problems don’t lie at the feet of the MMA media. It’s due to mismanagement. If they are unable to execute their PPV plans, it’s because the promotion’s brass failed their investors.
That quote sums it up. The medias job is not to protect organizations trying to compete against Zuffa but to protect the truth.
Pro elite was very well funded… the management got paid with sweet heart deals.
by mmalogic on
Aug 19, 2008 10:50 PM EDT
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They could probably put together one super PPV card that I would seriously think about paying for… but that’s about it.
by Nick Thomas on
Aug 19, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
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Wow… I’ve never seen someone get their lunch taken so articulately. I’ll tilt my glass to the north as a salute to Luke, and go re-tate comp I, and comp II again.
by Heenan on
Aug 19, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
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