Tito Ortiz Negotiating Again With the UFC

by Michael Rome on Aug 19, 2008 9:05 AM EDT in News Comment 59 comments

I always thought that the UFC was the best option for Tito Ortiz going forward, and it looks like he may be reconsidering his decision to leave. Dan Stupp reports in his latest column for the Dayton Daily News that talks between the UFC and Ortiz have resumed:

Now, according to industry insiders, Ortiz is hosting formal negotiations with all the top promotions - Affliction, EliteXC, the AFl and even, surprisingly, the UFC.

"I don't know if we're really negotiating, or simply helping Tito stroke his giant ego," one frustrated company representative said."

Given the respective financial situations of EliteXC and Affliction, neither can afford to pay Tito the kind of money he wants. He made over $900,000 for the fight in May against Machida, nobody is going to be able to pay him that in other organizations.

The UFC wants to lock him up to keep the star power away from other organizations. The real question though for them is how to get the value out of him to pay off that contract when he can't beat the top names in his division. One answer is to try to use him in a more creative way, as a coach again on TUF opposite a star they want to build up.

My guess is we won't see Tito Ortiz fight again for a while. He'll take the time off he needs for his name to gain strength, and come back for a nice payoff.

Hat Tip: Sam Caplan

0 recs | Comment 59 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I knew homeboy was bluffing with the “record breaking garbage”…

If it was 900k affliction would gladly pay as he is their last hope to make it past 3 shows… look at how much they paid Sylvia.

Tito wants to get PAID… so it’s the signing bonus and everything else Tito wants that makes it unfeasible for affliction as they only have a few mil left.

Tito knows this is his likely last pay day as he can’t hang with legit competition.

If he loses outside of the UFC there is a good chance he won’t see payment for the rest of his full contract and signing somewhere else with an even more depleted value will be a no go as it looks like only the UFC will be left.

With the UFC he is guaranteed 4-6m plus and the exposure he needs for his pipe dream of an acting career.

From UFC’s end he makes for a good opponent for Forrest, Wanderlei and Rashad win or lose.

by mmalogic on Aug 18, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He makes for a great opponent for Forrest given their history, one question is how to get him there. Personally, I think a TUF season with Wanderlei Silva and Tito Ortiz would be brilliant TV, and would solidify Silva as a star. Wand is so likable and Tito so hatable that it would be great TV.

Given his willingness to go up, they could also make a ton of money building up a fight between him and Brock Lesnar. Or even a fight at 205 pounds against Anderson Silva…would be a very intriguing fight given Silva’s problems with wrestling, and I think that would be a gigantic fight that would make a lot of money. It would take a little effort but they could all benefit in the end.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hadn't considered Tito/Anderson.

That’s got tons of potential to make money and to establish Anderson as a premier fighter. Good contrast of character on that one, as well.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Imagine if UFC 90 was Tito vs. Anderson following Anderson’s performance on Spike. The hype would be through the roof as opposed to the tepid reaction to Silva-Cote. They still need to solidify Anderson as a draw.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, and Tito would accomplish that in spades,

assuming that metaphor applies to that particular statement?

Anderson would instantly be a star if he could beat Tito, and if he knocked him out, how much does that help the UFC’s pound-for-pound campaign?

The more I think about it, the more I think it needs to happen, and soon.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tito would be more than willing to take the fight if the money was right. After all, he’s huge next to Anderson and Silva’s weakness is takedown defense.

by D.Capitated on Aug 18, 2008 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ufc 90 as at a 2mil gate as of noon today

Yes its mostly UFC being new there but not too shabby for an anderson-cote play date.

Lesnar vs Tito sounds sweet but I think tito wants to live a few more years.

by mmalogic on Aug 18, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So much of it is ticketmaster doing their shady shit with reselling. But yea it’s a good number, I don’t think it will translate to PPV success.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOT that Shocking !!!

It would not surprise me at all if Tito is back in the UFC .There are still fights the UFC could give Tito that very interesting and will make the UFc tons of $$$. I think the first fight they would go with is a rematch between him and Rashad ? Alot of fans want to see that fight again sence it ended in a draw. If Rashad losses against Chuck you could even do a Tuff next season with those 2 being the coaches, I could actually see the UFC building Tito-vs-Rashad into a trilogy like they did with Tito Shamrock. As for other fights they could make I myself would like to see fight a few fighters in the LHW devision like Wand again,Sokoudjou,Jardine,Rua, even Forst again if Forest losses the Belt. I think its almost a certain the UFC is twhere he ends up signing again ???

by Shocbomb on Aug 18, 2008 8:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hopefully he'll use his time off to learn how to fight!

I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!

by mma_dude on Aug 18, 2008 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tito is certainly marketable in fight’s with many current LHW’s in the UFC. He provides a big money diversion from the title picture in the division, as you can pretty much book anyone against Tito and expect extra buys and some entertaining (albeit, childish) build-up. UFC probably sees value in the fact that a lot of the LHW’s are devaluing one another, because the talent level is so high and someone has to lose. Tito would be a nice reprieve for a guy like Wand or Rampage, should they fight one another, where the loser could fight (and undoubtedly beat) Tito in a hugely profitable fight. It helps that Tito is unlikely to be embarrassed in many of these potential fights, thus never really dimishing his value to have fights of this nature (at least in the short term).

by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You think Wanderlei Silva “undoubtedly” beats Tito?

by D.Capitated on Aug 18, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it’s a close fight. Tito is a one trick pony, but Wand’s style just opens him up for takedowns. I’d pick Tito but it wouldn’t be an easy fight for Silva at all.

I get a little frustrated with people acting like he’s the worst fighter ever now. He couldn’t beat Machida, but who can? Frankly he came closer than most top LHWs will.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tito is what he is, which might actually be a pretty big insult

in the modern MMA world? He just doesn’t seem to be able to adapt and grow any more. I don’t know if that’s unfair, but if he stays what he is, then he’s kinda like Forrest Griffin without the excitement. A perennial challenger and perpetual top-10 guy, who is more than just a test for anyone in the division, but doesn’t possess a truly dominant skill any more.

His G&P is certainly his biggest strength, and it’s more than adequate. It’s a plus skill. His stand-up isn’t horrible, but anyone with a real pedigree in striking will give him fits and probably dominate that part of the fight.

His submissions have never been proven, which leads me to believe they’re adequate at best.

His takedown defense actually used to be pretty good, but when he gets gassed he can’t stay on his feet. And he seems to get gassed in pretty much every fight somewhere after the mid-point.

All told, he’s a deserving contender, but in the current LHW picture, he’s not top-3 material.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah..

If I had to graph out the current LHW division and place Tito based on who he would beat, it’d probably look worse than I presently imagine just discussing it in passing. I think some people here need to realize that in saying I think X fighter would beat Tito, I am not saying that Tito isn’t a quality fighter. XC and Affliction are going to be better for his long term image, because he certainly has a better chance at beating their LHW’s. And in the UFC he could stand a pretty good chance in a rematch with Rashad (we’ll see after the Chuck fight, I suppose) and would likely beat Jardine, Coleman, Houston Alexander or James Irvin. But I’d pick Thiago, Machida (again), Forrest (now), Rampage, Shogun, Hendo, Wand, Chuck and Sokou, to name those that come to mind presently, over today’s Tito. I hate to be misconstrued because I think Tito is an idiot; because yeah, he can still fight, but I don’t have to concede that he’d be anywhere near the title picture based on what I’ve seen in the last two years (from him and his peers).

by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

people learned how to defend against his ground and pound 3 years ago…

His takedowns 2 years ago…

In todays MMA he is the new ken shamrock.

by mmalogic on Aug 18, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who's acting like he's the worst fighter ever?

Wanderlei Silva has been my favorite fighter for years and to say that either he or Rampage could beat Tito isn’t the wildest proclamation made on this site in recent days. I made it clear that he would put up a fight, but I would pick Rampage OR Wand over him should it come to that. Just like I picked Machida against him (which made me a few bucks, no less)..

by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I even typed it

by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You should probably watch their first fight. And then the time Wanderlei fought Arona.

by D.Capitated on Aug 18, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve seen them both, thanks. Wanderlei isn’t the same fighter he was when he first fought Tito.

by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really? What did he improve in? Because it clearly wasn’t wrestling.

by D.Capitated on Aug 19, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you don’t think Wand is a better fighter than when he fought Tito in 2000, you don’t know what you’re watching.

by Blackout612 on Aug 19, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, again, what did the guy who’s 3-4 in his last 7 improve in? It obviously wasn’t wrestling given how Brazilian Tito took him down and mandhandled him. Given that he’s been KOed twice, it probably wasn’t striking either. Supposedly he has a black belt in BJJ, but he still hasn’t submitted anyone since the Tito fight. So, what is it?

by D.Capitated on Aug 19, 2008 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wand is such a better fighter now then when he first fought tito come on man if you can’t see that you are blind !!!

by Shocbomb on Aug 19, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So many huge fights

There are so many for Tito in the UFC it’s ridiculous. I know he wants to win but when it comes down to it we all know that he’s taken a step backwards but why not be king of the main event? Win or lose he makes tons of money and if he goes on a losing streak give him a cupcake for a quick win to build him back up. He could go back and forth between LHW and HW and fight all kinds of guys.

by dedstrk911 on Aug 18, 2008 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tito is a money fighter. Tito will go where the money is. I’ll believe that no one else can pay him money when he resigns with the UFC. As it is, the current enviroment for MMA is far more conducive to a free agent Tito getting a big paycheck than it was back in 2005 when this last played out.

by D.Capitated on Aug 18, 2008 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My impression is the new contract they offered him the week of the Machida fight was for 6 fights and a decent chunk more than he currently makes. I just don’t see him making 1.5-4 million per fight elsewhere. The free agent market was pretty great about 3-4 months ago, but Tito couldn’t negotiate then. Right now it’s substantially less promising.

I think Tito has a perfectly fine chance against Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva, Rashad Evans, and others. The Anderson fight in particular is the best one for him, because it’s the biggest name he has a chance of beating due to Anderson’s wrestling issues. If he could win that decision he’d suddenly be a big star again.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

$1.5-4mil per fight?

Is there a centralized location where you can view estimated fighter paydays? Trying to find it has thus far been ridiculously difficult for me.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s on the standard PPV multiplier Randy Couture is on + 250,000 base. The increase over that in the new contract was pretty significant.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Err, 210,000 base

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the standard PPV multiplier?

I’m just looking for broad strokes. I’d heard the base $200k+ before, and I’d seen some places that Randy’s PPV share was near $1mil for some fights? But again, this is shady info at best.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The numbers for Randy came out in the midst of their little spat.

100,000 – 175,000 buys – $1 per buy
175,000 – 300,000 buys – $1.50 per buy
300,000 – 330,000 buys – $2 per buy
330,000 – plus buys – $3 per buy

The UFC 84 show did around 480,000 buys according to the last thing I read on it, so you can do the math and add it up.

Chuck Liddell is on a bigger multiplier, Tito and Randy are reportedly on this one from what I’ve heard (and the math tends to confirm it). Other stars currently on the bonus system include Brock Lesnar, Anderson Silva, and maybe BJ Penn. GSP will join this list for sure in his new contract, he and others (including Wand, Hughes and Franklin) are paid primarily in downside guarantees and discretionary bonuses after their fights.

You’ll notice that the UFC tries to avoid doing a PPV with multiple guys on it earning dollars per buy. This is why they’ll likely avoid doing a show with Liddell and Lesnar in different fights.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brother Rome,

I heard he got a downside between 4 to 6m with a lot of fights… basically a reirement contract.

by mmalogic on Aug 18, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, thanks for the info.

I didn’t know the relative scale of it, and that puts the whole labor vs. management issue in a whole new light.

I still side with Zuffa all the way on this thing. Well, except for the likeness rights. That’s kind of obscene.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 19, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the talk about Affliction being unable to afford him is a whole lot of speculation based on more speculation. As “dire” as it supposedly is right now, its legions better than it was 3 years ago when Tito was looking to start his own promotion.

by D.Capitated on Aug 18, 2008 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They lost millions of dollars, and Attencio has admitted they can’t lose that much again. Of the things he has disputed he hasn’t disputed any loss figures, and he made it pretty clear in a Sherdog interview the other day that they’re not really that interested in paying a ton for Tito.

Look at the roster costs for the first show vs. the second. It’s millions less.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The second show isn’t even done being booked yet. Calm yourself.

by D.Capitated on Aug 19, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But to say they aren’t cutting costs is just silly.

Rothwell had to negotiate a special deal to fight on this card, that leads me to believe that they are significantly cutting costs.

by Phildo on Aug 19, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How the UFC can get its money's worth out of Tito Ortiz ...

Rampage vs. Tito
Wandy vs. Ortiz

I would never give Ortiz a shot at the belt if I was Dana, but he makes for a great tune-up fight for the other LHWs. Other interesting fights:

Houston Alexander vs. Tito
Jardine vs. Tito

With Anderson vs. Tito, I worry that Tito could ground Anderson and lay on him all fight for a decision victory, which would seriously devalue Anderson as a pound-for-pound champion.

by thetakeover on Aug 18, 2008 10:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Anyone concerned that his relationship with Trump might be a huge factor in this?

Trump has the tools and the funds to make Tito not only a highly paid fighter, but also an associate.

Someone play me in Madden 09. XBOX live gamertag: BANE509

by Christian on Aug 18, 2008 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d bet that Trump’s contribution to Affliction is name recognition, and not financial. I doubt he’s going to throw a bunch of his own money at a promotion that’s biggest accomplishment thus far is losing millions at its first event.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 18, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He traded his name for equity, he is not funding it.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trump is not backing Affliction with any $$$ what so ever NONE. Affliction actually is paying Trump to use his name and to back there company. Thats it

by Shocbomb on Aug 19, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DId you know trumps hourly rate for a speach is 250k?

not only did he get equity he got paid.

by mmalogic on Aug 19, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rome...

Its definitely Dann Stupp, not Stan Dupp. unless you were being funny or something. is this a big inside joke that I don’t know about?

by Eroc on Aug 18, 2008 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lol, talk about a mind slip. I was talking in a class today and the professor asked me to stand up, I think I temporarily lost my mind when I posted this.

by Michael Rome on Aug 19, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let him coach again

I am thinking that if Tito coaches again on TUF that would really help the show’s ratings and give exposure to the other coach – I think Lyoto Machida would be a great coach opposite of Tito. That would lead to his rematch and no title would be on the line. The other coach they could go with is Rashad if he does beat Chuck. Rashad does need the exposure just as bad as Lyoto.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2008 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The more I think about it, I think Wanderlei Silva and Tito Ortiz as coaches would be a big step up. One thing TUF did for Rampage is it cemented him as a UFC fighter as opposed to an outsider. I think Silva needs the same thing.

by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wandy

Having shared an elevator with Wandy at the UFC in Minneapolis, I can say he’s got star potential and is ripe for a coaching spot on TUF (if Nog can overcome the language barrier, Silva can too). Not sure I wanna see Tito on ANOTHER reality show though …

by thetakeover on Aug 18, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I only started to like Tito after his coaching stint on TUF. Am I the only one who thought he came across very well on the show?

by Benicio on Aug 19, 2008 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was awesome on the show, he has been the best coach thus far (along with Chuck) and the season he coached was the highest rated season.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 19, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did not even think about that a Wand and Tito Tuff would be great idea. They can do so dam much with Tito other orgs just can’t that will give Tito huge press and I think Tito knows this. There are to huge Tuff’s they can do with Tito eather a Rashad or Wand Tuff bolth would be hits.

by Shocbomb on Aug 19, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I were elite xc this is what I would do for tito:

I would offer him kimbo slice… slice is a ticking time bomb any way instead of a can having a chance to beat him might as well use that equity to get a star.

With the most likely destruction of kimbo slice tito’s fame will jump.

Next I would offer him Gary Shaw’s position as the face of the promotion…

This alone will keep elite in the headlines as dana’s and tito’s rivalry will undoubtedly heat up and remain hot.

Next get some financing with the good ratings and new face of the promo.

Finally depending on the financing either gear up for a PPV or saturday night fights: tito vs frank, kimbo vs ken, gina vs cyborg.

This will set up the next ppv or saturday night fights: frank vs ken, kimbo vs whoever, gina vs whoever, tito vs handpicked opponent.

At the end Tito will have gained enormous equity in celebrity which he can leverage onto other things or negotiate a better deal at that time as his worth will increase greatly…

by mmalogic on Aug 18, 2008 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs