Heath Herring Contradicts Himself
by Chris Nelson on Aug 18, 2008 9:13 AM EDT
in News
64 comments
There have been conflicting reports since the evening of weigh-ins for UFC 87 regarding whether or not Heath Herring or his team made disparaging remarks towards Brock Lesnar prior to their fight. Lesnar and UFC prez Dana White say there were, while Herring has denied saying anything derogatory about the former wrestler (or any of his previous opponents, for that matter).
One thing which neither side has disputed to this point was the fact that Herring refused to walk out to the cage before Lesnar when asked by UFC execs. Herring even said as much on the August 12th episode of Sherdog's "Beatdown" radio show.
"Oh, absolutely. When I got the call about that, I was actually surprised. I thought it was really, really disrespectful. I think I definitely earned the right to walk out second. I mean, had Lesnar won his last fight and we were fighting in his hometown, I don't think there would have even been anything at all about that. But the fact was that he hadn't won, I had won my last fight against Kongo, and I think we had earned the right to walk out second at that point."
But just yesterday, Herring was quoted in a piece on MMAJunkie roundly denying anything of the sort.
Herring also denied reports that he requested he not be forced to walk to the cage ahead of the hometown-hero Lesnar.
"I never even had a discussion with [the UFC] about anything," Herring insisted. "I'll be honest. You bringing that up is the first I've heard of it."
I have to say that I believed Herring when he said in the Sherdog interview that he hadn't trash-talked Lesnar. He sounded sincere, and he was open and honest about the entrance situation (which I agreed with him about). Now this comes out and it just makes him sound deceptive and more likely guilty of making the statements Lesnar and White accused him of in the first place.
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This is what's making me dislike Herring:
“I think that shot pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the fight,” said Herring. “I sure would like to know what would have happened if it hadn’t landed.”
I hate when fighters conjecture about “Oh, he wouldn’t have won if this didn’t happen”. Isn’t that kind of the point, Heath? He punched your fucking head off. Herring really just needs to stay away from the media until his next fight. He’s digging in deeper and deeper. Between this comment, his flip-flopping about the ring entrance and his saying that Brock “couldn’t finish a blind fighter”, Herring has snuck onto my shit list. I never knew he was such a baby.
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I read this too and immediately came to the same conclusion: he’s lying.
by Michael Rome on Aug 17, 2008 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This sucks.
Being a Texan, I’d like to pull for a fighter from my home state, occasionally. Herring’s talking out of both sides of his mouth and making excuses. Evan Tanner is…well I don’t even know where Tanner is now. I guess I’m down to Mike Swick. I’ll be glad when Leonard Garcia gets back in action.
by Cannon Jacques on Aug 17, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Swick is an easy guy to root for because of how he’s overcome his health issues, but he hasn’t been very exciting lately. Garcia is one hell of a fighter and I’m glad he’s washed his hands of that drug bust mess. I’ll tell you what— we can share Huerta since he’s spent some time in Texas, even though he’s Minnesota’s now.
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leonard Garcia
Sept.10 against Jens Pulver! Big fight for both guys.
by Chris Nelson on Aug 17, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been giving serious consideration to flying out and visiting a friend in Florida and going to the WEC show in Hollywood. That’s a great card and WEC is guaranteed to deliver an entertaining show.
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t even realize this fight was going down. It’s going to be awesome.
by Cannon Jacques on Aug 17, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Herring felt like he deserved to come out second. I haven’t seen anything reliable that he explicity demanded to come out second, or refused to come out first. What exactly is he lying about?
by smoogy on Aug 17, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He said on Jordan Breen he demanded it. 2 days later he says it never happened. One of those two can’t be true.
by Michael Rome on Aug 17, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was actually on the Beatdown, though Jordan was the one who asked the question.
by Mike Fagan on Aug 17, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those two quotes don’t seem to contradict each other.
1: I thought I should walk out first.
2: I didn’t have a discussion with the UFC about it.
Did I miss something?
by mythbuster on Aug 17, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear youse guys’ points, but the facts are (1)Herring was informed that he would walk out in front of Lesnar and he didn’t like it, and (2)come fight night, Herring walked out after Lesnar. Whatever conversations he says he himself took part (or didn’t take part in) in the time between is just semantics – Herring, his manager, or someone from his camp obviously insisted upon him walking second, because it’s just common sense that the UFC would want Lesnar to get the grand entrance.
Or maybe I’m totally wrong and it’s just bad wording in both instances, but I didn’t feel like it was too much conjecture to draw the line from A —→ B here.
by Chris Nelson on Aug 17, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
another thing Frank Mir said on Epsn that Heath was talking alot of shit about Lesnar before the fight why would Frank Mir lie about that ?
by Shocbomb on Aug 17, 2008 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t really think the walking out order was such a big deal… maybe he should have just beat Lesnar and couple more .. then he would definitely be 2nd
Rob Dib
http://www.break-your-face.com
by Rob Dib on Aug 17, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who cares what he did or didn't say!
I don’t see any contradiction in what he said. Bottom line is why does Dana White have such problems giving fighters the respect that they earn in the ring? Brock had no business coming out second. He had a losing record. Also I was at the fight and he is way more boring than Tim Silvia (per Dana’s comment). He is a Wrestler and thats all he did for all but about 2 min of the fight. The only thing he proved to me was he was the more powerful man. I didn’t pay to see who was stronger that was obvious. I wanted to see a fight. After Brock won the crowd cheered only because it was in Brocks back yard. If this fight where in vegas it would have been booed. Also they would have been stood up due to lack of action. In my opinion the UFC seems to hype the $$$ fighters even if they suck. They mismatch fights to create winning records and title shots for Dana’s fav. guys. Pride was way better and with some polish of the commentators Affliction will rise to the top. I used to be a hardcore UFC fan since UFC 1 but it is obvious Dana is turning it into a WWE type of organization centered around money. Brock is a disgrace to all of the fighters who helped build the sport with respect and intergrity.
by GFORCE2574 on Aug 17, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brock didn't have a losing record...
He was 1-1 in MMA. And wouldn’t be a perfect world were we could all enjoy the pure sport with no hype. The reality is is that stars are needed and have to be developed. So UFC wanted to put a hometown fave in front of Heath, so what? Heath has been solid, but unimpressive in the UFC. Your comments about wanting to see a fight are lame. It’s an MMA bout, not a street fight. Brock dominated it from start to finish and floored Heath with a right that almost took his head off to start it.
by LiuLang on Aug 17, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the punch
IF you watch the punch Heath rolled intentionally to get back on his feet before Lesnar could mount him and it worked. At first glance it appears that Brocks amazing power sent him flying. Watch it again and you’ll see what I mean. I paid to see a fight and got a wrestling match. Coleman, Frye, Tito all wrestlers still made it a fight not Brock because hes not a fighter. I paid $600 for seats to that so called fight. The prelims where more interesting but you wouldn’t know because you paid $50 to watch it on tv. You got what you paid for I didn’t. And those stupid antics at the end of the fight made me embarrassed to be a fan. WWE crap needs to stay with Mcmann. This sport has been growing just fine without that stupid first grade crap. If it wants to be a legitimate sport they need to keep idiots like Brock in check as does the NFL.
by GFORCE2574 on Aug 17, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The man is correct
This is from Fightreport.net
by mythbuster on Aug 17, 2008 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gif gone
Sorry to the mods if I did something against the rules.
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I implore you
to scroll up and look at the picture before you start making excuses about Heath rolling out of the punch. He did roll out intentionally, however he got hit really hard. His left eye is proof of that. And now with the news that he’s out for 6 months with a broken orbital, I don’t know how you can try to take anything away from Brock. On another note, Brock controled the fight for 15 mintues. Heath could not do anything. A 30-26 win across the boards is not just a wrestling match. Brock layed into him with some sick knees and beat him senseless for 3 rounds. Heath has gone the distance with much better fighters than Lesnar but nobody has controlled him so beautifully. Like Liu said, If you want a fight, go watch old Kimbo videos. If you want a mixed martial arts match than watch Lesnar v, Herring.
"I have opinions of my own --strong opinions-- but I don't always agree with them."
-George Bush
by B Money on Aug 18, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone above seems a little pissed that Heath lost and got dominated !!! Get over it Brock Beat his ass and pride is Dead !!! please let me know what fighters the UFC hypes that suck ???
by Shocbomb on Aug 17, 2008 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Case in point
BROCK LESNAR NEED I SAY MORE? Did you see that match? All that was missing was the spandex. Dana hypes fighters he likes reguardless of there current win lose ratio. Michael Bisping is another fighter who hasn’t faced anyone really good but is always hyped as being so great. There are plenty of others. My point is if you kiss Dana’s ass you’ll get far in the UFC and thats not how it is supposed to be. Heath lost the wrestling match yes. My point was in Vegas or anywhere else they would have been stood up allot more and Brock may not have done so well. Same thing with the Bisping vs Matt fight in the UK MAtt won that fight but Bisping won on the cards in his homeland. Seems a bit funny to me.
by GFORCE2574 on Aug 17, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brock Lesnar fought..
Frank Mir and Heath Herring in his second and third MMA fights. Take off the kid gloves, Dana! Where are the grizzly bears and sharks?
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post doesn’t need a response. Brock Lesnar is the real deal. He owned the fight for 15 minutes. Did you notice the picture above? He stayed busy wearing Herrings ass out for the entirety of the match.
Dana can’t control judges, and I agree the Bisping Decision wasn’t great. All together, the only “funny” thing going on is ZUFFA’s domination in MMA, and they will continue to dominate with these proclaimed ass-kissers drawing big numbers. Dana is a promoter, and a good one at that.
by Heenan on Aug 17, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares what he did or didn't say!
I don’t see any contradiction in what he said. Bottom line is why does Dana White have such problems giving fighters the respect that they earn in the ring? Brock had no business coming out second. He had a losing record. Also I was at the fight and he is way more boring than Tim Silvia (per Dana’s comment). He is a Wrestler and thats all he did for all but about 2 min of the fight. The only thing he proved to me was he was the more powerful man. I didn’t pay to see who was stronger that was obvious. I wanted to see a fight. After Brock won the crowd cheered only because it was in Brocks back yard. If this fight where in vegas it would have been booed. Also they would have been stood up due to lack of action. In my opinion the UFC seems to hype the $$$ fighters even if they suck. They mismatch fights to create winning records and title shots for Dana’s fav. guys. Pride was way better and with some polish of the commentators Affliction will rise to the top. I used to be a hardcore UFC fan since UFC 1 but it is obvious Dana is turning it into a WWE type of organization centered around money. Brock is a disgrace to all of the fighters who helped build the sport with respect and intergrity.
by GFORCE2574 on Aug 17, 2008 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Apparent "Contradiction"
I am glad some posters are pointing out that this article is fallacious. To have a contradiction, you have to have “is the case” and “is not the case” exactly. It is not clear, based upon the two statements, whether there was or was not a contradiction. We need more information. So this article is similar to other articles on BloodyElbow as of late, articles that jump to conclusions and involve a lot of opinion, sometimes without all of the facts.
by johnwall on Aug 17, 2008 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh…in one interview he says he did not have any discussion with anyone in the UFC at all. In the other, he “got the call” and thought it was disrespectful. Both of these statements cannot be true.
by Mike Fagan on Aug 17, 2008 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone make a call to Capitol Hill
What’s this evidence bullshit? It’s very clear what happened. Guys like Mir are being vocal about how disrespectful Herring and his camp were. There’s no reason for him to stick his neck out unless he felt strongly about it. And Dana himself said that Herring asked to come out second. You want some DNA?
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And at least Mir could admit that he hits hard and was in trouble and didn’t expect his strength. Brock specifically said it was in response to Herring’s camp being disrespectful and I doubt he’s lying, “immature” antics or not.
And how is it not a contradiction? He talks on radio about being asked to go out first and not wanting to, then says MMAJunkie it’s the first he heard of it.
by LiuLang on Aug 17, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s this evidence bullshit?
oh lol thanks for the unintentional humor.
Anyway I agree with you. Who needs facts when feelings and speculation are so much more FUN!
by mythbuster on Aug 17, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOLZ!
So short of Herring admitting it, discussing the topic is needless speculation. Another myth, busted!
by Blackout612 on Aug 17, 2008 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you even look at the title of the post? Do you know where you are?
“Heath Herring Contradicts Himself”
To us native English speakers, this means “Heath Herring Contradicts Himself”. It doesn’t mean “Heath Herring probably lied”, it doesn’t mean “Frank Mir says Herring lied”, and it doesn’t even mean “Heath Herring Eats Cap’n Crunch”.
If the title is “Heath Herring Contradicts Himself” than the two quotes should, ya know, CONTRADICT one another.
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
… isn’t it a contradiction for him to say in one quote that he “got the call” about who would walk out first and in the second quote to say that being asked about it now is “the first he’s ever heard of it” and that he never discussed it with the UFC? I’ve been speaking English for a really long time and those two seem pretty, well, contradictory to me — either he got a call from the UFC about it and was surprised, or he never discussed it with them and has never heard about the issue before. I suppose he could have gotten “the call” from somebody not affiliated with the UFC to tell him they wanted Brock to walk out first, but …
by Kierkegaard on Aug 18, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t that a bit nit-picky to bring up whether or not he heard something in an article written to prove that he contradicted himself regarding whether or not he demanded to go out second?
You know he’s not running for president, right? I think (I could be wrong, just got done mowing a large lawn with a push mower… joy. Also, your avatar distracts me.) this is called “changing the subject”, or “changing the argument”.
Also, as you point out, in the first quote he didn’t specify that the call was from the UFC, so technically… let’s see how far we can break down a non-issue.
In any case, I honestly don’t care. I didn’t like Herring before or after the match, but to be honest I don’t like the way the wrestling fans are jumping on this un-proven post to justify their swallowing of Lesnars heel antics.
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a Lesnar fan. At all.
I don’t know why it’s particularly “nit picky” to point out that he said on one occasion he “got a call” about it and then said later that he “didn’t discuss it with anyone” and “had not heard about it” before. You’re the one that brought “native English speakers” into the discussion and seemed so upset that it was called a contradiction. I guess I still don’t see what’s not contradictory about those two statements by Herring.
Oh, but my lawn is in need of mowing. So if you want, feel free to push your mower over here and do mine now! :)
by Kierkegaard on Aug 18, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know why it’s particularly "nit picky" to point out that he said on one occasion he "got a call" about it and then said later that he "didn’t discuss it with anyone" and "had not heard about it" before.
Because the first line of the article isn’t, “There have been conflicting reports since the evening of weigh-ins for UFC 87 regarding whether or not Heath Herring heard anything about the order of entrance.”
In fact, the first line is, “There have been conflicting reports since the evening of weigh-ins for UFC 87 regarding whether or not Heath Herring or his team made disparaging remarks towards Brock Lesnar prior to their fight.”
The first line of the summary paragraph is, “I have to say that I believed Herring when he said in the Sherdog interview that he hadn’t trash-talked Lesnar.” There’s kind of a problem there when a quote that may contradict Herrings hearings is used to show he contradicted himself about trash talking and demanding to go out second.
I will concede that he may or may not have contradicted himself about whether he heard anything regarding whether he was to go out first or second, depending if the call in the first quote was indeed from the UFC and was to him. And still, it doesn’t justify Lesnars antics.
And no lawn for you :)
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha. I see where you were coming from. I guess I thought the point of the article was that Herring’s conflicting statements about the whole “coming out first or second” thing makes it harder to believe him when he says he didn’t trash talk, especially when other sources have indicated he did. I see, though, that there’s no contradictory statements by him about whether he talked trash.
And still, it doesn’t justify Lesnars antics
Absolutely could not agree more. I wrote about his childish antics before.
I’ll throw in a bottle of cold water for the lawn, though…
by Kierkegaard on Aug 18, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I thought the point of the article was that Herring’s conflicting statements about the whole "coming out first or second"
Exactly. And this kid is talking about nitpicking..
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pretension is palpable
Engrish??
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I don’t want any veins bursting over there. I concede your subjective technicality.
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I would not call it speculation. Kenny Florian, who was backstage, said that Herring’s camp was trash talking and taunting Brock.
The first comment has Herring saying it was disrespectful for him to have been asked to come out first.
The second has him saying he never heard anything about coming out first.
Herring has handled this very poorly.
by Lynchman on Aug 18, 2008 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my cousin’s girlfriend’s best friend’s brother was backstage and heard herring call brock a “pussy”.
true story.
also brock needs to work on “finishing” but by any measure he dominated that match.
(official expert analysis)
by thebignerd on Aug 18, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I probably missed it
But is there any hint of what Herring is supposed to have said?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Aug 18, 2008 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was something about Lesnar having taken steroids. Lesnar reportedly said he’d make sure and find anybody, anywhere, who had acccused him of that and do the same thing to them as he did to Herring at the start of the face — break their eye with his fist. Said something about his first priority being a guy on the internet named Jemal who has written about it several times ….
(kidding — no idea what he supposedly actually said)
by Kierkegaard on Aug 18, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
AWESOME
That’s how it’s done, people!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Aug 19, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Nerd,
Kenny Florian fought on the card and mentioned Herring’s camp making comments. He said it on MMALive. We are not talking about rumors, we are talking about a fighter on the same card.
by Lynchman on Aug 18, 2008 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's assume it's true
Let’s assume the rumors (yes, they are rumors) are true. Lets say, for fun, that Herring said Lesnar took steroids and ate dirty diapers for lunch.
So what?
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then that makes Herring a bit of a prick and also a liar. I guess some might find that worthwhile information to have.
by Richard Wade on Aug 18, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
We already know Herring is a prick, and assuming he’s a liar (something again which hasn’t been proven since he sticks by his story) what does having that information change?
Is it so that none of us go unwittingly into business with him, or is it to.. justify .. someone else’s.. actions?
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know Herring is a prick?
I haven’t heard him say he’s a prick.
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you tried to do
But my eyes don’t lie, and I saw him sucker punch that dude that kissed him.
Nice try, tho.
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be fair, that dude did kiss him, out of nowhere, and without buying him dinner first or anything.
by Kierkegaard on Aug 18, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said that some might find that worthwhile. That’s just an assumption on my part, since I don’t personally find it all that interesting.
by Richard Wade on Aug 19, 2008 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many, including Herring’s camp, have been critical of Brock for his behavior after the fight.
If they were taunting Brock backstage, then I have no problems with his post-fight antics.
I think the whole point of this article is to show that Brock was indeed provoked. As I said, knowing that, I think his bronco bit is a little more understandable.
It also shows that Herring’s crew are poor sports. If you are going to talk trash, you have to be ready to accept any reprocusions that come from it.
by Lynchman on Aug 18, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the whole point of this article is to show that Brock was indeed provoked. As I said, knowing that, I think his bronco bit is a little more understandable.
sigh
Yup, you’re right. That’s exactly what the article said.
by mythbuster on Aug 18, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody minds if a guy talks smack before a competitive event.
But he is expected to eat the crow however it’s presented if he fails to live up to his end.
If Heath is indeed lying about this, in either quote, then he’s backpedaling and doesn’t look like much of a man during the aftermath of the event. If he’s telling the truth, then he’s got a bit more explaining to do in order to illuminate us, the teeming masses.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Aug 18, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, both you guys need to read the article, and not just the headline…
by mythbuster on Aug 19, 2008 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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