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Why Fedor vs. Randy Will Never Happen, in the UFC or Elsewhere

Over the past few days, a new rash of Fedor/Randy news has started the blogosphere talking, starting with the couple's canoodling in LA, followed by Vadim's statements to Sherdog reiterating their willingness to work with the UFC.  That was followed by Randy's statements on Adam Carolla's show, saying he believed his paycheck for that fight should be $6-10 million.

Pramit Mohapatra over at FightTicker did a fine job of debunking Randy's claims as to reasonable pay:

At $50 a pop, 700,000 PPV buys gives us $35 million in PPV revenue. Give the PPV broadcaster half and the promotion ends up with $17.5 million.

Now, UFC 87 (with an announced attendance in the neighborhood of 15,000) made a reported live gate of $2.2 million. Let's be generous and say that Randy-Fedor garners a live gate of $3 million.

. . .

(Without all costs) factored in, Couture's estimate of a $12-20 million total payout for both him and Fedor seems very unrealistic.

However, that still leaves open a couple of questions: what would be reasonable pay and terms for that fight to take place in the UFC?  And will those terms prevent the fight from ever happening?

Star-divide

Working with Pramit's numbers, an expected revenue of $17.5 million for the promotion would have to be divided up by fighter revenue, promotion revenue, and the costs for putting together and promoting the event, as well as the substantial interest costs on Zuffa's debt.  If those costs are estimated at approximately 7-10 million (as this fight would clearly require a great deal more advertising than most UFC fights, as Fedor is basically an unknown to the majority of UFC fans,) that leaves maybe 9-10 million to split between Fedor, Randy, and the promotion.  With a 50/50 split, that leaves about 5 million for the fighters, with Randy and Fedor each getting a little over 2 million and the rest of the fighters getting about 700k.

However, this breakdown ignores the non-monetary issues, almost all of which currently run against Randy/Fedor.  First is the fact that the UFC holds most of the leverage right now.  The UFC does not need Randy/Fedor, while Randy needs this fight soon if he ever wants to have it.

Second is the fact that the value of this fight declines by the day.  The longer Randy is out of the public eye and the longer other upstart promotions lose money without breaking through, the less likely Randy will be able to get a big payday out of this fight when he finally gets out from under the UFC's thumb.  This was the biggest fight of all time a year ago.  Right now, its still a big fight, but many people have lost interest in favor of Fedor/Barnett or Fedor/Arlovski.  A year and a half from now, the fight may not have that value of being a breakout fight for another promotion, and Randy will never fight again.  With the UFC appearing fully capable of drawing out the legal issues until kingdom come, that deadline has to loom in Randy's mind.

Third, Randy's continued abrasiveness in regards to the UFC and his open rejection of their contract and policies makes him less valuable to the organization.  The UFC does not want to hype up a fight with a guy who may fight, then promptly turn around and resume devaluing the UFC with his words and actions.  He can't be expected to continue bringing in money for the UFC with following fights, since he's already shown his willingness to abandon the company and his contract.  In fact, if he does win, does he hold out for a superfight with Arlovski?  The UFC may end up trading one superfight headache for another.  And what signal does that send to other UFC fighters, that Randy took on the beast and won?  The UFC needs to send the message that Randy would have been better off simply fulfilling his original contract, which would require Randy to fight Fedor under terms he almost certainly wouldn't accept.  Randy tied up in legal limbo may be the best option right now, from the UFC's perspective.

Fourth is Fedor and his management's unwillingness to sign a long-term contract that isn't riddled with co-promoting nonsense.  Even if the UFC can wheedle him into signing a four-fight deal (doubtful) he could easily bolt afterward and cause the UFC more headaches, as he would possibly leave as the UFC HW champion and a superstar in the US.  They may not want to take the risk.  If need be, the UFC can wait him out for another top HW fighter to reach the top, a fighter who may be more willing to tie his name to the UFC for the rest of his career.

The primary reason to hold the fight in the UFC is the risk of it being held in another promotion and vaulting them to national profitability.  But as mentioned earlier, the fight loses value almost on a daily basis.  A year from now, there may be no upstart promotion willing to take the certain loss on that fight.  Strikeforce doesn't need it, and EliteXC and Affliction may have already either shut their doors, or reached profitability on their own.  If Fedor/Randy declines to simply a standard "big fight" it will never happen under the terms Randy wants.  And with the UFC keeping Randy in court, they can afford to wait to see if they can keep him busy long enough for the fight to lose its lustre.

In sum, Randy/Fedor is too dangerous for the UFC to hold under anywhere near the terms Randy's pride and Fedor's pride demand, and by the time it could be held anywhere else, it won't matter anymore.  Randy will move on in his movie career, and Fedor will continue to be a star in Japan and Russia, and we will have all missed out on a fight we should have already seen.

(My first fanpost, hope you like!)

8 recs | Comment 16 comments

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Nice job. I pretty much agree with your assessment.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 14, 2008 9:49 PM EDT   0 recs

If the UFC doesn’t bite: Will Affliction stay afloat long enough to put it together and will Randy even be free to fight somewhere else in October. Hard to see how all the moons will align.

Good read Michael. (clicks rec)

by Nick Thomas on Aug 15, 2008 10:00 AM EDT   0 recs

I say no, because it doesn’t look like Randy will return the UFC without receiving big money in a Fedor fight. Since he probably won’t fulfill his UFC contract, I think the UFC can, and will, keep him tied up in court for a long time to come. Affliction is going to really have to revamp things to stay alive for several more years. However, I’m just guessing. Who knows?

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 15, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think Affliction or EliteXC will be alive long enough. Theres always the possibility of some other upstart organization, but I just think these legal issues are gonna draw out until nobody cares about the fight anymore.

by Michaelthebox on Aug 15, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Randy Who?

With Brock Lesnar, the UFC has no need for Randy anymore. They especially don’t need a non-speaking, unimpressive looking person who can beat their new star while being practically impossible to market.

by cyph on Aug 15, 2008 1:49 PM EDT   0 recs

Randy offers something that no other fighter can, though.

And that’s a ridiculously pristine presence to the American media. You put that guy in front of a camera and your public perception increases dramatically.

As a fighter, he is often called overrated (and this being The Interwebs, usually this is in the form of ‘MOST OVER8ED EVRR!!!!’) by the fans and this is probably deservedly so. But he’s also referred to as one of the smartest fighters in the sport, which lends an incredible amount of legitimacy to the sport to the detractors.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 15, 2008 8:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He's also 45...going on 46

Randy doesn’t have much upside at all.

by cyph on Aug 15, 2008 8:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Even his staunchest supporters would concede

that point. But it’s a point that’s been made for like five years now and has never produced relevancy. That’s not to imply that it won’t, but it does imply that we really don’t know the long-term physical effects that MMA fighting has on the body.

As to upside though, I totally concede that point. There’s no way Couture improves going forward. It’s just a question of how long he can hang onto what he has.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 15, 2008 9:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree it won’t happen in the the UFC. The “elsewhere” argument needs a little work though.

by smoogy on Aug 16, 2008 11:02 PM EDT   0 recs

It will happen

First of all… Fedor doesn’t get paid anywhere near as much as the other fighters. Randy will not get paid more than 1 million dollars for the fight. The purse for this fight wouldn’t be much more than the Sylvia vs Fedor fight. Can it happen? Of course it can. WIll it have tons of PPV buys, yes it will.

by mmachump on Aug 17, 2008 10:39 AM EDT   0 recs

Fedor asking price

Fedor got paid millions by affliction, do you really think he only got 300k when sylvia got 800? There was some back dealings going on where he recieved a percentage of ppv buys or some other consideration. He is at least a million dollar man and randy would want the same if not more.

by rockied on Aug 19, 2008 7:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

In all fairness to Randy, if it takes place anywhere but the UFC,
He will probably lose Horribly, but He’s willing to do it.
I’m a fan of Him, and He is a master…of the Cage.
But, not to come in here seem all Hate filled and
what not, I never considered Randy a contender
for Fedor.

For the simple fact that I’ve never had Randy as a Top
3 or 4 HW. It was Nogueria, then Fedor Beat Him.
After that, it went on to Fedor, Noguria, Mir when He
had the title and Barnett.

Last I checked, Randy should be fighting Nogueria;
(or possibly Arlovski which is a Garbage match now)
That should have been the fight years ago, and should
still be the fight now; with even more reason in the title.
Barnett, as the last man to beat Nog, and the only person
to beat both Him and Couture should have gotten a shot
at Fedor a while ago.

Arlovski should not even be in the Picture right now.
But, I think the fight between Randy and Fedor will
eventually Happen.

I think Randy should get Destroyed…but Hey;
it’s Randy Couture, Captain America Mayne.
He just might turn it into a great One.

by Paytience on Aug 27, 2008 6:09 AM EDT   0 recs

The only flaw I've been able to find in Fedor,

if you can even call it that, is that he really relies on wide-open space to implement his gameplan, both on the feet and the ground. From the bottom he’s hyper-active, and from the top even more so. The cage would seriously slow him down if he went up against someone who knows how to use it like Randy does.

I’m not saying that means he’s automatically in trouble. But I am saying that in order for him to fight what appears to be “his fight,” he needs to keep the fight in the middle of the ring.

The thing that’s so crazy about Fedor is that he’s so strong in so many areas that we sometimes forget just how good he is at, well, everything. He submits so many people that we are tempted to forget about his striking. But when you review his fights, he sets up most of his submissions with devastating strikes from the feet. Who’s to say he wouldn’t just put Randy on the canvas before he had the chance to pin him up against the cage?

But in seriousness, I do think Randy gives the toughest stylistic matchup for Fedor. A well-rounded fighter with outstanding dirty boxing, cage skills, and grecco clinches. Put him in a cage and I think it’s a good fight.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 27, 2008 11:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m thinking along the same lines somewhat.
But I think the only place whatsoever that it will
be a match is in the Cage.

But, My main point is that until Randy beats Nogueria,
He shouldn’t even be looked at as a Contender for Fedor.

People tend to forgot that for years, Randy was only considered
top 5 by the UFC. And quite frankly…not much has changed.

Still, Randy is prolly one of the most dangerous guys to bet against.
It’s just really hard to doubt Him, even when you line it up on paper.
Meh…He should fight Nogueria, fulfill his contract, and be done with it.

I think one of the reasons He wouldn’t, is because He knows a loss
to Minotauro would destroy the Allure of a Fedor fight.
Sad, considering how well Randy does against Jiu-Jitsu Guys.

by Paytience on Aug 27, 2008 10:51 PM EDT   0 recs

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