If GSP Is out Until 2009, BJ Penn Should Defend His Title

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:30 PM EDT in News

Georges St. Pierre made waves yesterday when he said that he needs time to rest, and that he isn't looking to fight BJ Penn until 2009. Seeing as he has spent most of the last year and a half training and fighting, this is completely understandable, and I can't help but shake my head over the fact that some fans are mad at him over this. I suspect it will be Liddell headlining the December show that many thought Penn and St. Pierre would headline.

If St. Pierre is looking for some time off, BJ Penn really ought to defend his title against Kenny Florian in November. They don't have a main event for that card, and if BJ waits until Spring 2009 to fight GSP, it will mean that we will probably go over a year without a Lightweight Championship defense.

While they risk squandering a potential dream match, I find it pretty unlikely that Penn will lose, and think the guaranteed damage of putting the Lightweight Championship on ice for over a year is worse than the possible damage of Penn losing to Florian. A successful defense would also go a long way in helping to hype the future fight between Penn and St. Pierre as well.

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I really am not too hyped about BJ fighting Kenny, but I do want to see him fight one more fight before he fights St. Pierre. I don’t know why but I just think that his fight against Florian is going to be boring; had Huerta won – I’d have been more excited.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:35 PM EDT 0 recs

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Penn be boring. I think it should be real good, Florian has solid BJJ (though nowhere near Penn), and a good striking game. I think Penn wins but it should be a good one.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

I am thinking on terms of excitement – I just like how Huerta fights more than I like how Kenny fights. Let me rephrase that, I used to like the way Kenny fights, not so much anymore.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think what you saw, was Huerta exposed, not Kenny fighting “un-exciting”. Huerta came in and didn’t fight well, he threw telegraphed haymakers and little else. People should be admonishing him for his poor, sloppy style that Florian countered effectively.

When i say exposed, I simply mean that he has a lot of work to do before he is a real contender, and that is exactly what I expect him to do.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Correct you are BJJDenver, but do you think the Florian/Penn fight would be exciting?

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, don’t misunderstand me, lol. i think it will be a stinker!

I think the best fights for him are non UFC guys. Aoki, Alvarez, Gomi 2, and so on.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

For sure those would be stellar fights for BJ. You and I can only wish that those fights would take place in the UFC. I won’t keep my fingers crossed b/c there is always hope.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

I got excited just punching in Aoki, though I don’t think he could hang with BJ’s striking, it certainly could be fun if (when) it went to the mat.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

BJ would just pound him out like he did Paul Creighton.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

And that is exactly why I am all for the BJ/GSP fight.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Penn be boring.

Have you seen the Renzo, Rodrigo, and Machida fights?

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t think his fight with Machida was boring. I can honestly say that is one of the few Machida fights that was (in my eyes) a good fight.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

I have, I think I just blocked them out of my mind. Obviously I’m not going to blame the other party for a Machida fight sucking, but I think Penn has been pretty exciting since returning.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

The fight against Creighton was hardly exciting either.

by D.Capitated on Aug 14, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

So, how far into 2009 are we talking???

I think BJ/GSP would fit the Superbowl show in early February very well, maybe better than NYE. If GSP is talking about taking 6 months or so off, then who knows where it would fit best, maybe Hawaii??

If they do fight in Feb., then they would need BJ to fight by November’s show at the latest, imo. That is kind of pushing things, so I guess it is up to GSP as to how this will go down.

As for BJ defending, I think he will walk through Florian. Nothing against Kenny, it’s just that BJ is that good right now. As for Huerta, that fight would have ended quickly.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:39 PM EDT 0 recs

The BJ/Huerta (if it ever happens) may end quickly – but I know it would be all good up until that moment.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

I disagree. I think BJ would do pretty much the same thing Florian did and work Huerta’s weaknesses, only ending the fight. I like Huerta ok, but he needs to keep developing before taking on one of the best in the sport.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Huerta’s reach is the same as Penn’s and BJ has never circled away from anyone or been hesitant to engage in his career.

BJ would stand and brawl with Roger, ground game be damned.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree, I think the fight would actually be real fun. BJ would finish him but it would not be BJ picking his spots.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why would BJ finish him? Huerta took flush hooks repeatedly from Guillard, who hits harder than BJ can. Guida landed a massive right hook to the temple during a scramble and he was able to survive with the help of the bell.

The only time Huerta’s been finished was in the 23rd minute of fighting that night after already having beaten Mike Aina and Harris Sarmiento. It was a broken jaw too.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Because it is BJ damn it! lol.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

That’s the pedestal BJ will forever be on. The reason he thinks he’s god is because fans let him.

Minneapolis hopefully brought his ego back to earth.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hey, I’m holding on tight, lol!!

Seriously, if mma has shown us anything, it is that NO fighter is invincible, I’m just working on the 9 times out of ten system.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

He just puts himself in way too much trouble on the ground. Giving up the back the way he does and the mount to BJ Penn would just be a disaster. While I agree Penn would probably brawl, I’m sure it would be on the ground at times, and Roger is just way too reckless down there against a guy like Penn, who is levels above Florian.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed, Roger has gotten away with leaving openings against some decent fighters, but I doubt he would get away with it against BJ.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

I want to see the brawl then I want to see Huerta puss out and try to take BJ down. From then on we all know too well that BJ will then finish him.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Jesus, can you be less biased please?

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

I tried that one time and no one responded.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t think it was Kenny being hesitant to engage but rather picking his shots. Why is it that people worship Machida for doing just this and other fighters are shunned for using a similar strategy.

by zeroword on Aug 14, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Lots of people HATE Machida for doing this. I’m not one of them, but I also thought Kenny fought a great fight against Huerta, so clearly my opinion should carry much weight…

by AJB on Aug 14, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

To me, Machida is like Chuck without the power.

That’s just an ugly combination. A guy who stands, has impeccable defense and perfect striking, but doesn’t have the ability/willingness to knock people out? That’s just un-exciting. Certainly it’s a display of dominance, but that specific domination is not terribly entertaining to watch.

Put it this way, would anyone watch a wrestling match if there was absolutely no way it was going to end prior to the clock winding down? How about boxing? How many people would watch boxing if there was literally like a 10% chance that there’s going to be a knockout?

I love to watch guys like Lennox Lewis go out and do the jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-overhand right combo and just school guys. But it literally killed the HW division of boxing while he was doing it, it just wasn’t exciting.

And that’s something I want our sport to avoid. We need to keep growing and being exciting, and someone like Machida is a ridiculously hard sell to the uninitiated, and even a bunch of us hardcores lose interest in it. It’s just not a good thing for the sport right now. Great for Machida, he’s an exceptional fighter. Bad for the sport, today.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 15, 2008 2:11 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well they are looking at a return to Montreal for the March or April card. I suspect this fight will be on there. The available dates they can take are March 7, April 18, and April 25. Doing it in early March seems like a strong possibility to me.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

That would be awesome.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

What is the deal with them going to Hawaii? Is it regulated there yet? Could you imagine that happening?

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s regulated, but they won’t have the actual regs drawn up until Summer 09 I believe.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Pardon me if this has been asked already – but how did Elite XC have a fight out there?

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

There’s a difference between being unregulated and illegal. UFC could hold a fight out there tomorrow but they want to wait until the regs are done.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah I think the UFC wants the sport to be represented as legit as possible, albeit for their own agenda.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Are they regulating mma AND ultimate fighting???

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s just MMA I think.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hawaii stuff

Everything isn’t set in Hawaii yet. Michael Rome is correct in that the UFC could hold a card out here, as EliteXC and many other organizations have done. But the state isn’t involved enough at this point. For example, there’s no testing enforced for steroid or even hep.

Of course an organization could do this themselves if the state won’t; I think the UFC hires an external organization to do it when they go abroad. I think for a state like Hawaii, however, the UFC just wants everything set ahead of time to minimize any political backlash.

by dmayeda on Aug 14, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Maybe I am a bit slow, but EXC did have a fight out there recently that was on Showtime, right?

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

yes, as ICON, and I think they also have Rumble on the Rocks or something there.

like Rome said,it isn’t illegal, just unregulated at the moment, and UFC doesn’t want to hold a show there until it is all completed.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Got it!

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

BJ might lose to Florian because he won’t consider it a challenge and might take it too lightly.

by The_Vig on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

How dare you!!!

lol, j/k!

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can’t see BJ taking that fight lightly. I don’t think he’ll ever make that mistake again.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Bj has defended his title so many times, who is there left for him to fight. Oh wait. He has only defended it once. This isn’t "The Spider" who has taken on all comers. This is Bj the great, the prodigy, the unbeatable here. He needs to prove that he can defend the title against those who deserve a shot at it. Just because he can’t get up for a fight against those who are beneath him is his problem and his problem alone.
Hey, I like BJ. I think that he is amazing, but his problem is totally in his head. He needs to be chasing the next best thing, to him that is taking on GSP. However a great champion is someone who stays at the top and defeats all comers. That is why Matt Hughes was great in his day. He took out anyone that he fought, he defended his title. Any title holder should have to defend his title 3 times before they start to look to another title holder. This isn’t the old days of MMA when there where only 5 or 6 guys in a division, kind of like Elite or Affliction. There are a ton of good quality guys in these divisions. They should be defending the title at least twice a year if not more.
——as an aside, this coaches for a title shot thing on TUF has got to go. It ties up the title for too long.

by The_Vig on Aug 14, 2008 3:47 PM EDT 0 recs

Where did he say he couldn’t get up for those guys? That would be a stupid thing to say, as it would only make him look weak after he beat them.

Why would you be against a guy who wants to fight the best in the world?

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

He says it constantly.

“I just wanna be the beat the best in the world, is that too much to ask?”

It is, if you don’t earn your way to the best in the world and keep expecting things to be handed to you.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

WW champ and LW champ.

Define earned.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Frank Shamrock should have his shot at Forrest Griffin since he was a champ at 185 and 199 then, right?

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

But that’s not really a good comparison, BJ Penn just completely destroyed the top two contenders in the UFC at 155, and has a recent fight with GSP that a lot of people think he actually won.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think it was close, I watched that fight like 4 times and everytime I could not really pick a loser. The one time I think he should have gotten a draw – his draw against Caol Uno was just wrong.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

I take that back, his fight with Machida should have been a draw too.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why do people think he won the GSP fight? Because he broke his nose and poked him in the eye? All those fans who say BJ won say is “BJ spent the night at the bar, GSP spent it at the hospital”. They never explain how eating leg kicks and getting bossed on the ground gives him the win.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

I thought it was close, as many decisions are, especially due to the judges perspective. However, I had GSP winning and saw it basically as you stated, a glancing shot that broke GSPs nose.

Don’t tell anyone I admitted this!

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

My main reason is that GSP could not finish BJ. Not even close – BJ was never in any real danger.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why are you using RINGS scoring?

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

But there is also something to be said for taking the fight on somewhat short notice and definitely not being in the condition he is now. Not making excuses, just that both guys have come a long ways since that fight and I think a part 2 would be awesome.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

BJ was already working on getting back to the UFC in about fall ’05 and they officially announced him vs GSP in January at UFN 3. Not short notice at all.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

It does annoy me when BJ fans say that “this time” he’ll be motivated. The whole hype behind their fight at the time was that BJ Penn was returning and that he hadn’t been this motivated to fight in years. Goldberg even mentions it in the first round.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Note I didn’t say that. I thought it was on shorter notice, my mistake.

I was simply stating, that no matter the reason, BJ has become more focused and conditioned since their first fight and GSP has developed even further. These things make for a must see, imo, no matter who wins or loses.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why can’t they just fight for a UFC P4P best fighter belt?

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Because the entire concept of “Pound for pound” is theoretical.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

i don’t like the p4p stuff, but they don’t want to do it for either belt, so they need to find a way to make it 5 rounds.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think St. Pierre won the fight too, but he hardly won it convincingly. I think a lot of fans think fights should be judged more on damage than points for takedowns, and those are the people that think Penn won. Either way it’s not like St. Pierre dominated him or anything.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I believe the keyword for GSP’s win over BJ was “Neutralized”.

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think BJ won the fight ..It was close though..where He lost the decision was with his conditioning at the time..that is wha I feel left the sour taste in the judges ….If he comes in in as good of shape as he was with Sherk then it will me tough to beat him…Hopefully moving up in weight doesnt effect his conditioning again..because a BJ GSP fight will go deepinto the rounds…First three rounds you have to give to BJ..but if it goes int to the 4-5 th then GSP has the edge

by cgriffiths on Aug 14, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

How do you believe BJ won the second and third rounds?

by godzillad on Aug 14, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, there is something to be said for relevance at the time. BJ is on the top of his game and the sport right now. Shamrock is neither.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

That’s what I’ve been saying – they are both in their primes and at their best. Why not! It’s not like BJ is asking to fight Miguel Torres, Urijah Faber or even Hellboy. He wants to fight one of the best in the UFC right now.

by lovingmma25 on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

It becomes a problem because it makes a mockery of the 155 division. It’s also pretty arrogant considering he still has lots of talented guys in that division to beat. Who knows when BJ would even come back if he loses to GSP? We could see another year + wait without a defense, and then a title vacated.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

God, don’t even bring that thought up, lol.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Aug 14, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Drop the title

If BJ wants to fight in a different weight class he should give up the title, move up and weight and start fighting in that class. It is just unfair for the other fighters at 155 to have to wait until BJ gets around to fighting them. I really think that the UFC needs to implement mandatory title defenses at about 2 a year.

by The_Vig on Aug 14, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

See I don’t like that because it makes the new champion illegitimate.

I think they really need to bring Faber and the 145’ers into the UFC. The 155 division has been a joke for so long, it’s cursed by now, they need a stable smaller champion and it’s clear BJ Penn has no intention of being it.

by Michael Rome on Aug 14, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up 0 recs