Brock Lesnar: The Next Big Heel

by Michael Rome on Aug 10, 2008 11:06 AM EDT in News

As I was watching Lesnar celebrate his win, I remarked to the people I was watching with that the hardcore fans would lose their minds over his antics. The fans haven't disappointed, Sherdog and other places have exploded in hatred for him. They want to see him get his ass kicked. That's the idea.

Brock Lesnar really understands his role as the outsider that the hardcores hate. He is going to draw a lot of money for them, he has the potential to easily fill the space that Tito Ortiz used to occupy. I know Kevin Iole says Kongo is next, but that is really stupid. Cocky Brock Lesnar vs. Mark Coleman the legend would probably make them an insane amount of money.

Here's a quick paraphrased quote from Lesnar at the post-fight press conference as reported by MIke Coughlin:

"I'm sorry if I offended anyone...oh, wait, no I'm not, I don't care at all."

This is going to be very entertaining to watch. As a guy that used to watch pro wrestling, it's very funny to me, because he was known as a guy that didn't know how to sell fights there. His personality fits MMA a lot better.

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Lesnar could absolutely fill the

UFC Bad Guy role that Tito recently vacated. You’re right that his personality is a perfect fit for MMA, and it’s going to be neat to see how he crafts his public image here at the beginning of his career.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 10, 2008 6:46 AM EDT 0 recs

Yeah, I agree. At first I was pissed at how he disrespected Herring with the pushes after the rounds and the horse comments after the fight and the whole fish and hook gesture then I thought to myself that he’s probably trying to sell himself as the bad guy of MMA. I could see how this could really boost his $ from a marketing perspective. I still think he was a little disrespectful towards Herring. Herring’s been in the game for awhile, and showed a tremendous warrior’s heart in that fight. All that said, I believed that Lesnar was for real after 81. he’ll be top 3 in one-two years.

by Josh H. on Aug 10, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Okay, I changed my mind. I forgot that on top of pushing Herring after the bell, making the “riding the horse” comments and the fish and hook gesture he also pointed towards Herring and laughed. MMA doesn’t need all that. It does kind of give it a WWE feel, which it doesn’t need.

by Josh H. on Aug 10, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

when i heard his post fight dribble I knew exactly what he was doing. Either he has some very astute management or he has found his natural niche . Either way, MMA is a big place and heavyweight will be far more colourful with such a massive and scary big bad boofhead.

by Benicio on Aug 10, 2008 7:12 AM EDT 0 recs

I guess that The Brock Lesnar Bandwagon is officially excepting passengers...

I’m not aboard yet though. I need to see him beat one more guy. I hope they give him Gonzaga next. I want to see him get a good win against a submission fighter, just to see if he’s learned from his mistake against Mir.

by Cmad77 on Aug 10, 2008 7:57 AM EDT 0 recs

Well I must be a beta-test passenger on TBLB (tm),

since I’ve been pumped about this guy ever since I heard he was signed to the UFC. Certainly not driving said vehicle, but I might be riding shotgun from the sound of things on the interwebs.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 10, 2008 8:07 AM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed

He is so far 1 and 1 against people sent in to lose against him. Not extremely impressive yet.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 8:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hi Hater

the man fights mir and herring in his first two fights, yet you think they were gimme fights, i guess you can name other pro mma fighters who have fought such high level competition in their first few fights.

by JB22191 on Aug 10, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

Are you joking? He just beat a guy with over 40 pro bouts in his 3rd MMA fight. And just dominated him.

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well...

Hey man, I’m all about the casual so I could be wrong. But I calls em like I sees em.

Stylistically Herring was tailor made for Lesnar. Both rely on being big, tough guys—with Brock being much bigger and toucher.

I’m not taking anything away from Lesnar, I’m just not handing him anything either. The fact that he looked exactly the same as he did in the Mir fight – with the exception that he was fighting a guy who isn’t known for his Ju Jitsu.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

Name one other MMA fighter who Herring is tailored made to lose? The only one I can think of is Nogueira, the champ. And even then, he rocked the champ and almost beat him. Herring is the real deal and a tough SOB. Don’t even discredit Lesnar’s win.

You can go ahead and discredit his inexperience and LNP tactics when on the ground because he didn’t know what to do. “Elbows, Brock, Elbows!!!”

by cyph on Aug 10, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Whoa,,

I meant absolutely no disrespect to Herring. While I don’t like the guy at all (not a fan of the “Hey look, I’m a crazy texan!” thing, nor his cheap shot in that other fight), I give him credit for what he has done.

Sorry if it seemed that way.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

if you think they set up the MIr vs Lesnar fight for Lesnar to win…..well i don’t think that is the case…... lesnar stood a very minimal chance of winning that fight, i think anyone who ever saw royce vs severn knew how that was gonna go…..brock had maybe around a 20% chance of winning that fight in my estimation…that fight was more about getting over the “As real as it gets” UFC ethos and re-building Mir, who has been a Joe Silva golden boy…..they put mir in the octagon back in the day when he was barely qualified to teach the kiddie BJJ course at your local dojo…. now they are giving that clown a title shot off of betting brock…...where is the eye roll gif for me to insert?

the heath fight was a much more fair test…... sure there was the experience factor but on the other hand thre was the O’brien factor, which indicated that if brock worked his gameplan he could be successful…

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"His analysis is so analytical"

by robnashville on Aug 10, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

if you think they set up the MIr vs Lesnar fight for Lesnar to win…..well i don’t think that is the case…..

4 of 5 writers on this blog picked Lesnar to beat Mir ( http://www.bloodyelbow.com/story/2008/2/1/123223/1827 )

The betting odds picked Lesnar ( http://www.bloodyelbow.com/story/2007/12/31/121737/25 ) -175 Lesnar /+145 Mir

So, you may not have considered it a “gimme fight” but clearly many other people did. And he lost.

And as I said above, I’m not taking away from Brock. But also, I’m not ready to proclaim him the next coming of Jesus either.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t like Brocks attitude but seems people around here should display some kind of attitude adjustment toward the guy. One stinking writer compares him to Kimbo and suddenly everyone jumped on that wagon? Picking Herring by KO? Then for guys to say Fitch sucks because they rewatched him fight Wilson was silly. I had my money on GSP as well but correct me if I’m wrong when I say Fitch went longer then any man to ever face GSP. Course last time I said that, someone here corrected me and had no clue what they were talking about. Kinda like Goldberg.

by Tommy7 on Aug 10, 2008 9:18 AM EDT 0 recs

“Then for guys to say Fitch sucks because they rewatched him fight Wilson was silly.”

they didn’t say he sucked, just that his skillset wasn’t a good match-up against GSP’s…...they said he would get worked in the stand up, because he couldn’t take it to the ground like in the wilson fight…...well come fight time he got worked in the stand up, because he couldn’t take it to the ground…no need to get upset because they told you how the fight would unfold and then it did exactly that….no one is gonna argue that he went the distance, just as you won’t be able to argue that he wasn’t getting worked the whole time….

Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"

by robnashville on Aug 10, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

Lesnar 2.0

the new brock is going to be very tough to beat, outside of big nog or mir i dont see any heavyweights being able to touch him. he is so fast on the ground and his wrestling balance is amazing, that he can pretty much do what he wants to his opponents. if we ever see Lesnar 2.1 with added submission and elbows then i will really be scared. and i think there is one thing people still dont fully understand, even though rogan mentioned it several times, this was the mans 3rd, i repeat 3rd mma fight .

by JB22191 on Aug 10, 2008 9:46 AM EDT 0 recs

I am curious to see how many buys this fight had. Anyone know if the arena was sold-out? We actually had to leave a bar due to being in the 20 mile radius “blackout” area. The people were going absolutely nuts. Standing room only at a buffalo wild wings.

Also, there is a ton of excitement on all the MMA sites. Looks to me like this card could possibly be one of their top 5 buys ever???

by Heenan on Aug 10, 2008 10:09 AM EDT 0 recs

i think they sold somewhere around 13k to 13.5 for the show then comped a couple thousand, total attend was a hair over 15k…...

Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"

by robnashville on Aug 10, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up 0 recs

I thought Lesnar’s antics were retarded, and I said so in the comments section of the play-by-play. However, I see the potential draw a “heel” like Lesnar could produce. My hopes are that the pendulum doesn’t swing too far in the way of antics and make the actual fighting almost secondary. I’ll give the guy credit. He did to Herring what I was afraid he would do. I didn’t find his tactics especially exciting, but they were effective. I still believe he’ll have trouble with good BJJ guys who can work from the bottom. His legs are a big target.

As for GSP/Fitch, I’ve got much respect for both guys. I was really impressed how Fitch would come out looking fresh to start each round. He took a ton of damage. What can you say about GSP? The guy was awesome. I look at his possible competitors at welterweight, and I think BJ coming back up is his only dangerous fight ahead. GSP/BJ should be a good one.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 10, 2008 10:11 AM EDT 0 recs

Rome said blown out. I didn’t see that happen. I bet on GSP and only seen the fight going that way. Though someone did say Fitch was better in no area of mma and I believe he is better at bjj, though that’s about it. We are talking about one of mma’s p4p champs afterall. All I was refering to was his rewatch of the Wilson fight. And using that as a point to which he believed Jon would get blown out the cage. Upset? By guys who picked Herring to win by KO? All because someone compared him to Kimbo. Like backyard brawling and NCAA HW Champ for wrestling are the same and should be considered as such.

by Tommy7 on Aug 10, 2008 10:26 AM EDT 0 recs

That sounded like word salad to me...

There are some people out there who said the Herring fight was boring. I have no idea how anyone thought that. I was just in pure amazement at some of the stuff Lesnar was pulling off. Nobody 6 foot 4 and 250 lbs. should be manhandled like that especially someone as tough as Herring. That was just mental.

by SamCupitt on Aug 10, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up 0 recs

It really was something else

to see a guy of Herring’s size get manhandled like that. When Lesnar had the beginnings of a standing guillotine in the first round, I had flashbacks of Mark Coleman vs. Dan Severn when Coleman submitted Severn with a headlock. A headlock.

I was actually hoping Lesnar wouldn’t just start squeezing, because that’s a position that he could really do some damage in if he decided to just be a classless thug.

But yeah, to see Lesnar able to simply overpower a guy like that was pretty special stuff.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 10, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think it comes down to personal preference. What I found aggravating about it was the fact that Lesnar had Herring in trouble on the ground, but seemed content to stay there and not try and finish him off. Granted, he was doing significant damage with punches and knees. I’m of the opinion that if you can control the match on the ground, you should. However, I don’t find this captivating, because Herring didn’t seem close to being TKOed, and it was obvious that Lesnar wasn’t going to do more than what he was doing. I’d like to see Lesnar extend his game in the future. He would be far more dangerous with a few more tools.

As for the size, Herring is a big guy. Lesnar is absolutely huge. He could easily fight as a superheavyweight. His control on the ground didn’t surprise me much. I felt that he was strong enough and a good enough wrestler to control Herring if it stayed on the ground as it did most of the match.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 10, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

Lesnar post fight interview (video)

by Nick Thomas on Aug 10, 2008 11:44 AM EDT 0 recs

That interview shows a glimpes into why

so many people are excited about Brock Lesnar. His attitude towards this sport is so outstanding, and combined with his physical tools and work ethic, there’s seemingly no limit to what this guy can do.

It’s been said so many times already, but this was just his third MMA fight. Ever. And he absolutely dominated a legitimate 40 fight veteran.

This is why we watch sports. The promise of greatness is sometimes more rewarding than the delivery of said greatness..

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 10, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed. I seriously can’t wait to watch him fight again.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Aug 10, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

The only thing that bothers me about Lesnar’s future, is that the UFC doesn’t have many guys above Herring that aren’t black belt jj fighters. IMHO, he could handle any striker the heavy-weight division has to offer. If they want to continue to challenge Lesnar, he is going to have to face Gonzaga and Werdum. Those will be tough fights for him. Brock never had to think defensively last-night, so we got to see about his chin and lungs (as well as his offensive arsenal). What I’m trying to say is that Brock did not have to think . He simply had to control. If/when he fights his next bjj match, he will have to come in with a different mentality. His camp won’t let him fight Gonzo or Fab on the ground for 15 minutes, far too risky.

If I’m making the matches, you got to give him Kongo next, and give his game one more fight to evolve.

by Heenan on Aug 10, 2008 12:45 PM EDT 0 recs

I thought Lesnar was hilarious.

I can see why people would be annoyed with his antics, but really, the UFC borrows heavily from WWE style promotion, so it really didn’t bother me at all. Lesnar knows his role, and if he’s gonna embrace it fully, I have no problems. Watching Lesnar kind of reminded me why I enjoyed Pro wrestling so much as a college kid.

by pud333 on Aug 10, 2008 1:37 PM EDT 0 recs

Irony...

The irony is, Mike was big into ROH before and hated this kind of stuff. I mean, this clearly lacked respect and honor. I think Lesnar can goof on people all he wants, as long as he shows some skill and tries to finish fights, that is.

But, really, should we be talking face/heel dynamics with MMA? We have Dave Meltzer for that.

by Locust Star on Aug 10, 2008 4:12 PM EDT 0 recs

I’m not going to get into it because it’s retarded, but when I was a fan of ROH i was the biggest proponent of adding in character and heels and faces. Over at Sherdog, I think something like 50 out of the first 60 threads are people arguing over Lesnar. He knows how to sell himself.

by Michael Rome on Aug 10, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

On the contrary

and really, only time will tell, but I predict that MMA fans will get bored of Lesnar faster than WWE fans did.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah..

If he shows the same skill set every time he fights or shows no improvement at all, it’ll be pretty predictable if thats the case.

by Johann on Aug 11, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

Eh

Well, it is Sherdog. They overreact and go nuts over everything. It is like the SomethingAwful of MMA. Is this going to sell PPVs to the people who most likely already buy them? Of course we’ll have to wait for the numbers and everything, but I think regardless of how he acts he’ll be just as popular.

by Locust Star on Aug 10, 2008 5:38 PM EDT 0 recs

One thing I realized

It was good to see the fighters getting the attention this time instead of any referee or doctor decisions.

by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2008 5:54 PM EDT 0 recs

One thing...

Lesnar IS who he is acting like. I’m a big fan because he is such a raw beast. But he really is a big bully who gets a kick out of beating people up. That is just who he is. It isn’t the best thing for the sport from a “showing the class of our athletes” standpoint. But it is AMAZING for the sport from a “getting people to watch” standpoint. Nothing is more important in selling shows than marketable stars and Lesnar is insanely marketable on his looks, attitude and now we’re starting to see the skills.

And for anyone who thinks that fight was anything resembling the “same as the Mir fight” is crazy. Brock was very composed on the ground, he wasn’t under the impression that he could just throw “punchpunchpunchpunch” and have that end the fight in 30 seconds. He made sure that he had Herring exactly where he wanted him at all times.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 11, 2008 7:51 AM EDT 0 recs

And for anyone who thinks that fight was anything resembling the "same as the Mir fight" is crazy

Of course it was different.
Lesnar vs Mir - Bullrush, get opponent down, ground and pound. Tap out.
Lesnar vs Herring - Bullrush, get opponent down, ground and pound. No tap out.

Hugely different. How can you seriously proclaim he is such a different fighter when his first fight lasted 1:30?? He did exactly the same thing, except it wasn’t against a JJ guy.

Oh, and also, in both fights he had to be warned for hitting the back of the head. Tremendously different…

by mythbuster on Aug 11, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up 0 recs

The two fights were verrrrry different.

Lesnar vs. Mir –
Step 1: Bullrush, takedown
Step 2: throwtoomanypuncheswithoutanypowerbehindanyoftheminsomesortofattempttoconfuseeveryoneinvolved, Step 3: Stupid rookie mistake causing him to tap out

Lesnar vs. Herring –
Step 1: MASSIVE RIGHT HAND knocks Herring to the floor
Step 2: Bullrush, takedown
Step 3: Establish, maintain and ride side control, create motion to keep fight on ground
Step 4: Throw power punches to the head, and knees to the back/side while in dominant position
Step 5: Repeat steps 2-4 as needed until conclusion of fight

Basically the difference is he paced himself and picked his shots, instead of whatever it was he was doing in the Mir fight when his fists were blurring in the vicinity of Mir’s head. Also he demonstrated impressive poise and positional control, which he obviously did not in the Mir fight.

And there’s no way Brock Lesnar ever has a fight where he’s not going to get warned about strikes to the back of the head. If you’re turtled, and know he’s got one of those hammers coming down on your face, you’re going to try and position your head so he doesn’t get any angles to work with. I’m not singling Herring out here, everyone will do it against this guy. Did you watch Lesnar’s first MMA fight? He looks like he actually does damage with each measured shot he throws with his fists, which is pretty frightening.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Aug 11, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Congrats to Brock on being bigger and stronger than Herring. The extra 40-50 pounds combined with all that strength and speed was obviously too much for Heath, and will cause problems for a lot of heavyweights.

Boo to Lesnar for a) acting like a douchebag and b) still failing to show off any real technique.

a) It makes me sick to hear the same people who have been begging for MMA to earn some respect and pleading for mainstream exposure say things like, “MMA needs a heel like Brock Lesnar to bring in fans.” Why? Why do we need people getting shoved between rounds? Why are the same people who were criticizing Nate Diaz for his double finger display lining up to praise Lesnar for grabbing his crotch and insulting Heath Herring? Is it the poor sportsmanship that brings people out to the ballpark or the football field?

b) As far as technique goes, he could have GnP’d Herring to a TKO or submitted him a dozen different ways if he were really serious about training MMA. Watching GSP fight right after Lesnar was eye-opening. GSP was stronger and more explosive than Fitch, but he used every aspect of the MMA game to win that fight.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Aug 11, 2008 2:37 PM EDT 0 recs