Tito Ortiz vs. "Babalu" Sobral, Pedro Rizzo vs. Paul Buentello Possible for Affliction 2

by Chris Nelson on Jul 29, 2008 9:46 AM EDT in News Comment 26 comments

Steve Cofield says Affliction is close to inking yet another ex-UFC champ:

Sources have told Yahoo! Sports that free agent Tito Ortiz will fight Renato "Babalu" Sobral in the co-main event at Affliction's next fight card, on Oct. 11 at the Thomas & Mack Center on the UNLV campus in Las Vegas. The main event will feature a heavyweight bout between WAMMA champion Fedor Emelianenko and Andrei Arlovski.

Affliction vice president Tom Atencio would not confirm the Ortiz-Babalu fight. He said details for the fight card will be released during an Aug. 6 news conference that most likely will be held in Las Vegas.

Atencio also indicated that he didn't think Affliction could speak with Ortiz until Aug. 4 because of a 60-day non-compete clause in Ortiz's UFC contract. Ortiz's last fight for UFC was on May 24 at UFC 84. If the 60-day clause is accurate, the deal ended last weekend. Atencio said the biggest stumbling block for an Ortiz deal would be the financial terms.

Over in the FanPosts, reader smoogy notes the potential PPV boon that could come along with the Ortiz signing, with figures for Tito's last five UFC fights courtesy of MMAPayout and Dave Meltzer:

UFC 59 - Ortiz v. Griffin - 425,000
UFC 61 - Ortiz v. Shamrock II - 775,000
UFC 66 - Liddell v. Ortiz - 1,050,000
UFC 73 - Ortiz v. Evans - 425,000
UFC 84 - Ortiz v. Machida - 475,000-525,000

Average: 635,000

Meanwhile, Brazilian heavyweight Pedro Rizzo spoke to Tatame.com about his knockout loss at the hands of Josh Barnett on the first Affliction bill, and stated that he expects to be back in action for the October 11th show:

Pedro Rizzo’s debute on Affliction wasn’t the way he was expecting. After ten months away from fighting, the Brazilian fighter felt a little the time but didn’t searched for excuses to explain the loss. "It was my fault. I did everything right, trained hard, but didn’t used it on the fight, I got stucked on the ring. I believe it’s because of the ten months without fighting, but I don’t have excuses. I was trained, ready, but didn’t fought well", said Rizzo, that will fight again at Affliction’s second show. "I’ll fight at October 11th, but I don’t know whom yet. They (Affliction) talked about Paul Buentello, but there’s nothing right yet", finished the athlete, that is back on trainings for his next fight.

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Comments

Wow … Ortiz v. Babalu? Affliction seems to have already mastered the art of repackaging washed up fighters. Well, at least they put out good clothing.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 29, 2008 8:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, at least they put out good clothing.

When did they start that?

by Brett Jones on Jul 29, 2008 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Work with me here.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 29, 2008 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not interested in seeing Ortiz take Babalu down and lay on him for 3 rounds.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 29, 2008 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And what a bunch of BS this Ortiz PPV stat is.

For three of those fights, Ortiz was the undercard and / or not the reason people were tuning in.

UFC 84 people wanted to see Penn, not Ortiz. At 73, he was second to the top but the fights was BORING. I give him 66, but I have to think people wanted to see Chuck, not Tito.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 29, 2008 8:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I concur...

Gave the same explanation in smoogy’s post also.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 29, 2008 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For every one of those cards, Tito was heavily promoted.

Go back and watch the countdown shows, each one featured Tito.

It is interesting to note that the discrepancy of ppv buys between Evans/Ortiz and Evans/Bisping was less than one hundred thousand.

Tito is a draw when put against a major opponent. He alone does not draw huge numbers.

That being said, I do think he can get them another 50-75k buys.

by Lynchman on Jul 29, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I did ....

And he was most certainly not “heavily” promoted—yes, he was mentioned in the ad’s but to say it was “heavily” promoted is simply inaccurate.

He was heavily promoted for 84?? Please.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 29, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t have links right here to pass along, but it was said that Ortiz drove the PPV buys for UFC 73 and especially UFC 84

by smoogy on Jul 29, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shit, Dana White sold more PPV buys for UFC 84 than Ortiz.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 29, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was on the countdown for UFC 84…as well as 73 I think…and had that little All Access show before the fight with Liddell I think…or what that the Shamrock fight? He was promoted…and you would think the PPV’s would be higher…but they are not.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 29, 2008 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rered my post ...

I said he was not heavily promoted for 3 of those fight …. the most recent two, he was in his spat with Dana White and simply working out his contract. Liddell was the bigger headliner in that fight. The first two, of course he was heavily promoted—he was still a golden boy in the UFC.

Point of the stat was to suggest Tito is still some main PPV draw. He hasnt been a main draw in quite sometime. He’s been listening to Jenna a little too much.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Buentello/Rizzo fight would be better than the Ortiz/Bablu fight.

by asmiley420 on Jul 29, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Afflicton 2 will prove once and for all that Ortiz is a tarnished brand...

The signing of Ortiz will irrevocably put Affliction out of business for good. There will be no Affliction 3. Ortiz will get an additional 25k buys at most which would not cover his astronomical asking price.

To sell an event, you need these elements:
#1. Good fighters
#2. Good promotion
#3. A good storyline, coupled with history and relevance for the future
#4. Hype (intertwined with #3)

Tito Ortiz VS Babalu Sobral has none of those four elements. Seriously, does any hardcore fan look forward to this fight? Does any casual fan know who Sobral is? Why would anyone pay $40 to watch Tito Ortiz, a washed up fighter fight a relative unknown?

Why do people seem to give Tito the benefit of selling PPVs? Tito is a master of #4, however, he benefited most by the other 3 elements that the UFC supplied. The only reason I looked forward to Machida VS Ortiz was because I wanted to see Machida destroy the last shred of Tito’s aura. Why would I care for Ortiz VS Babalu, a guy with no chin and a bad match up against Ortiz?

If I pay, it’s going to be for Fedor VS Arlovski. Tito VS Babalu is just another line up and a money sink for Affliction.

by cyph on Jul 29, 2008 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tito is a bad match up for Sobral is what I meant.

by cyph on Jul 29, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tito provides enough name recognition to probably add another 50,000 buys to the show on top of what it would do otherwise. He’s clearly money better spent than Tim Sylvia and Matt Lindland, but I don’t know if they’re even dropping those guys.

The tito interview I saw this morning suggests this is very premature too.

by Michael Rome on Jul 29, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying that the first Affliction with their original line up got 85k buys (optimistic estimate) and Tito alone will do bump it up 50k? No way. If Fedor, Arlovski, Sylvia, and Barnett could only do 85k, then why would Tito bring in 50k when he is no where as good as those four right now?

The problem with this logic is that people believe that casual fans are willing to pay for name recognition. However, Affliction 1 blows that logic out the water. Casual fans will only buy name recognition if it goes hand in hand with the UFC brand. Do not confuse Tito’s brand with the UFC’s brand. This is the mistake that Affliction is making.

The MMA hardcores only make up probably 50-80k. The 300k hard core UFC PPV buyers are hard core UFC fans. Lets not confuse those two either.

by cyph on Jul 29, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn’t matter whether he’s “as good as” those guys. The bottom line is they can use former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Tito Ortiz in their ads, and do Billboards with him for fights. He has tremendous name recognition, and there is clearly some overlap in the group you mentioned. A lot of hardcores buy every UFC show too. Almost everyone who bought Affliction 1 will probably buy again to see Fedor/Arlovski, and Tito can add significantly more.

by Michael Rome on Jul 29, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, Affliction 1 absolutely does not blow that out of the water. If the show did indeed do 85,000 buys, that is double what the Pride show did. The hardcore fanbase has not doubled since that show.

by Michael Rome on Jul 29, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can’t compare success based on how well Affliction did versus Pride. Affliction has better name recognition than the Pride show and its salary was 3-4 times Pride’s. How you can see that as a success, I have no idea.

Measuring success should be compared to the lowest UFC PPV buys not the pathetic Pride show. The lowest UFC PPV was the Ireland one with 200k. With a salary north of 4 million and line up that they had, an 85k PPV buy is a dismal, dismal failure. You can’t spin it any other way.

by cyph on Jul 29, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now you’re changing the argument. I know it was a failure, it doesn’t change the fact that all the hardcores bought pride, and they all bought this, and if they did 40,000 more buys for this, something has to account for that difference.

by Michael Rome on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re also assuming something that can’t be substantiated:

Assumptions:
#1 Hard cores consist of only 40k (It could be 200k for all we know)
#2 Only hard cores bought Affliction and Pride (it could 40/40 split between casuals and hard cores)

Here is my suggestion for the difference: Arlovski and Tim Sylvia.

by cyph on Jul 29, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough, my suggestion is Ortiz can bring in far more than they can of the same group.

by Michael Rome on Jul 29, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dont see it ....

Yes, he has name recognition. But it isnt always a good thing.

The only way your theory holds up is if peeps who are loyal to the UFC come over and watch Ortiz over at Affliction. That name recognition isnt really a good thing amoung the majority of UFC fans—we all know him to be a little beotch who is past his prime. Why even bother tuning in? To see Babalu?

And what “significantly more” nugget can he add to the card?

Dana White struck the jugular with putting Silva on the air for free. Now all he has to do is sit back and watch Affliction die a slow, painful death. If Fedor / Ortiz / Silvia are all the talent / big names they have, they dont have even 5% of the depth in talented fighters that the UFC presently carries.

.... Unless they plan on using them like WWE wrestlers, fighting each other over and over again in different angles.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 30, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Houston,

Two fights are used for each Countdown. UFC 84 profiled Machida/Ortiz and Sherk/Penn. Ortiz was on every poster for the event as well.

He was advertised almost as much as Penn and Sherk. He had a fair share of promotion. Was he the most promoted? No, but that does not invalidate using the ppv numbers as they do reflect his drawing ability.

by Lynchman on Jul 29, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Same thing ...

You made my point.

The fact he was “co-promoted” with BJ Penn shows he isnt the draw he once was. He was working out his contract and it showed—a very yawner of a fight agaist someone he should have taken apart back in his prime. Did you really tune in to see Ortiz yourself? If you did, Im going to say you’re new to MMA.

I was watching this fight at a Champps here in Houston. I know this isnt scientific by any stretch, but not a soul was watching that fight. In contrast, people were glued to the Penn fight.

by HoustonRaven on Jul 30, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs