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Fedor vs. Couture: Super Fight or Mismatch?

57665727liddellwanderlech5_tiny by Tha Realness on

Fronted by Luke Thomas.

It had been just about two years since Fedor Emelianenko fought a legitimate opponent.  That is, until he destroyed former UFC HW champ Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds this past Saturday night.  During the post fight interview, Fedor was asked who he would like to face next and of course he named Randy Couture.

Couture is a legend in this sport, he first man to become a champion in two different weight classes.  At 44 years of age he came out of retirement to defeat the same Tim Sylvia via unanimous decison.  Couture has always seemed to defy the odds in terms of age and ability, but that will not be the case against Fedor. 

I don’t even think Couture has earned the right to face Fedor. Most people have Couture ranked #3 at HW and I have a problem with that.  Considering that Couture decisioned Sylvia and stopped a Gabriel Gonzaga who proved to be overhyped after his win over Cro Cop.  I don’t see how Couture can be ranked at #3 when he only has one win against a top 10 HW since his first retirement.  Whereas, he was stopped in 2 of his last three fights at LHW prior to those fights.

Read the rest of the article here.

Poll
Fedor vs. Couture?
  • Super Fight
  • Mis-Match

  1200 votes | Results

7 recs | Comment 181 comments | Add your comment

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Good points

You’re right on with Couture.

As I watched Fedor destroy Sylvia, I was thinking to myself, it took Couture 5 rounds. There is no way he is gonna take Fedor out.

I hope Couture’s “promoting” of his fight with Fedor does not add to the delay of the fight taking place via UFC’s lawsuit that is being held up in court.

by lovingmma25 on Jul 21, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Hmm..

I think the UFC will sue Affliction and Couture for that.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

hmmm...

Well…it helps to remember that different fight styles result in different fights. Couture took longer to take out Sylvia because his gameplan wasn’t to destroy immediately. He was looking to punish him for a five round fight. Fedor is much of of a “finisher.” Couture dropped Sylvia early in the fight also.

I’d pick Fedor pretty easily were it to happen. I’m just saying…

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by brentbrookhouse on Jul 21, 2008 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Added a poll. =)

by Nick Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Thanks Nick :)

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 2:30 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I’m going to take the easy way out and say…both.

It is a superfight, because it matches the 2 biggest name heavyweights in the world and is a fight people have been clamoring for, for quite a while.

It is also a mismatch, because Fedor is a far more complete fighter than randy.

Randy may be the most over rated fighter around. Don’t get me wrong, i am a fan and I think he may be the most cerebral fighter in mma. He certainly is great and a hall of famer, but he is not a great striker, submission artist or boxer. he obviously has great wrestling and uses his brain to make good game plans and follow them. But outside of wrestling, I don’t think he has anything on Fedor and if they fight in a ring, it will be a distinct disadvantage for Randy.

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Jul 21, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Are they necessarily mutually exclusive? There’s no dispute that Couture and Fedor are both legends in the sport. If you match them up, isn’t that a super-fight inasmuch as they are both legends? Couture walked away from the UFC relatively recently as the HW champion. Fedor is Fedor. It’s not like we’re talking about a washed up legend who has lost a number of fights in a row against an up and coming legend. It’s two legends—it’s a superfight.

At the same time, I can’t imagine that Fedor would have much difficulty in handling Randy. I think the fight itself would end up being a mismatch.

EDIT ON PREVIEW: Or, yeah, some of what BJJD said.

by Kierkegaard on Jul 21, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

My vote was mismatch (and it hurt me to do so), but age is a huge factor here. A lot of what makes Randy so effective even at an age when most fighters had retired a decade prior, he is able to use all of the knowledge he has gained to his advantage over less skilled opponents. The problem is that I don’t see his experience as an edge against Fedor, in fact I think Fedor is probably the more experienced fighter and in his prime (and despite Randy’s amazing conditioning he is clearly not in his physical prime).

Don’t get me wrong, I’d defeinitely buy whatever pay-per-view the fight was on and root hard for Randy, but I’d be rooting for a pretty big underdog (Im guessing Fedor wins that fight 85-90% of the time).

by Day Man on Jul 21, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

A super fight to me is a fight that’s competitive between two legends or well known fighter’s.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

That is a "great fight"...

...a superfight is all in the matchmaking. You book superfights to draw the crowd in…but you can’t promise that they’ll be competitive fights. Chuck/Rampage II was a superfight in terms of appeal. But it was a quick non-competitive fight.

I’m just saying…most people think of matchmaking when they talk about “superfights” and what you were talking about is more of mis-match vs. great fight.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by brentbrookhouse on Jul 21, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well…the first fight between Rampage/Chuck was a war…so you could book that as such because on paper it was a good matchup as well…however, I just don’t see how that can be done with Fedor/Couture if people look at this fight realistically….

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

because...

...people want to see it.

It may be an overly simple answer. But it’s the truth.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by brentbrookhouse on Jul 21, 2008 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Exactly

Like Anderson Silva fighting Chuck Liddell – that is a superfight

by lovingmma25 on Jul 21, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't see...

how you can have possibly the most popular fighter vs. possibly the best fighter in a division fight and not call it a superfight.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by brentbrookhouse on Jul 21, 2008 2:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You know...

I’d love to see BJ Penn and Machida fight again. They are both 100% better all around than their first fight. Could that be a superfight?

by lovingmma25 on Jul 21, 2008 3:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

BJ will someday hold ALL the UFC belts!!

(I like BJ, lol)

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"

by BJJDenver on Jul 21, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

...And the key to my heart.

Oh, sorry. got swept up in the BJJ nut-hugging fever. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Jul 22, 2008 8:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Simple

The more popular fighter is 45 years old…hasn’t fought for over a year…and has one win against a top 10 opponent…and has nothing in his arsenal that indicates he can beat the best fighter in the division IMO.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Again...

we’re sharing different definitions of superfight. The generally acknowledged definition of a superfight is one that is a major fight for a sport which captures the public imagination. Fedor/Couture is arguably the most anticipated fight in the history of MMA.

You are basing your definition on how competitive the fight would be. But I don’t think how competitive it is has anything to do with it’s success or importance to the MMA landscape nor with it’s importance in the majority of MMA fan’s eyes. And I think that is also something that you can’t predict ahead of time. Sure it will probably be over within a round, but if it goes 4 hard fought rounds then it suddenly gets an “upgrade” in what kind of matchmaking it is? It’s still the same two guys…

Man, I gotta stop taking time away from the site for vacations. I come back and start arguing over definitions….

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by brentbrookhouse on Jul 21, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

If you define super fight like that then sure, its a super fight. However I think its a pretty fair assumption that given the fact that the only other option was “mismatch” that in this case super fight means a great competitive fight.

I may be mistaken as to the original poster’s intent, but the way the question was phrased, with only two options, implies that those options should be opposed to one another. So defining one option as how anticipated the matchup would be when the other option clearly is in regards to how competitive the fight would be doesn’t seem right.

It is, however, open to interpretation and it seems like the majority of the discussion is based on the different interpretations of the terms and not on people differing opinions of the actual fight. So maybe some clarity from tha Realness would help things get back on the MMA discussion track.

by Day Man on Jul 21, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

one win against a top 10 opponent? The only fight he’s had in the last seven years that hasn’t been against a top 10 opponent was Van Arsdale.

by George Lucas on Jul 21, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Uhh…clearly I’m talking about his fight’s at HW dude…where in he’s fought Sylvia(top 10) and Gonzaga who was not top ten…which give him one win against a top ten guy in the HW division.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 6:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

lol

Why do I anticipate Velasquez or Mir somehow being ahead of Gonzaga in your rankings?

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 7:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Gonzaga was widely considered top ten at the time of their fight (perhaps wrongly, but such is the nature of top ten lists).

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Jul 22, 2008 3:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

lol@ brent…no worries man…the intent of the article was to get some discussion going…nothing more nothing less…

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 3:13 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Great discussion you got going here Realness.

by lovingmma25 on Jul 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

So does anyone here think that A. Silva’s fight against J. Irvin was a mismatch?

by lovingmma25 on Jul 21, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

No

Because Irvin actually had a puncher’s chance..

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 3:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That and the unknown of how Silva would handle facing a larger opponent than he was used to.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Jul 21, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No he didn’t.

by Mike Fagan on Jul 22, 2008 1:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

This article stinks. Couture is very solidly ranked as the #3 heavyweight in the world, #2 being a guy Fedor’s already beaten twice. Fightmatrix only has Nogueira leading Couture by one point.

Randy is coming off of two (not sure why you think it’s just one) dominating consecutive wins against top 10 heavyweights, which is more than can be said for anyone else in the sport besides Nogueira.

Of course he’s the best possible opponent for Fedor at this time. Better now than later.

by George Lucas on Jul 21, 2008 5:55 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

First of all…the article is sound…secondly, i suppose you were one of the many bandwagon riders to have Gonzaga ranked in the top ten off of his 15 mins of fame against Cro Cop?

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 6:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

If by “bandwagon” you mean every single sane MMA fan or website that ranks fighters, then yes. Your opinion that Gonzaga isn’t a top 10 heavyweight puts you in an insignificant minority.

by George Lucas on Jul 28, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Randy will be pretty old by the time him and Fedor fight. Age is the only factor that concerns me, when it comes to Randy. Skill wise, Fedor has the submission advantage. Everything else is equal.

by Cmad77 on Jul 21, 2008 7:13 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I'm a huge Couture fan

and I have to disagree. Fedor is a superior striker and submission expert. I’d give the wrestling advantage to Randy, but it’s close enough to probably keep it from being decisive.

Conditioning shouldn’t be an issue. Wrestlers really do age well, and Randy is in phenomenal shape. Of course he’s not at his peak, physically, but he’s got plenty for a full-length fight.

Advantage Fedor, no question. But I don’t think it’s 10:1 or 7:1. More like 5:2.

by misterjonez on Jul 21, 2008 8:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Randy only has a slight wrestling advantage?

He’s got a incredible pedigree and has taken down every single fighter he has ever faced. He has the disadvantage elsewhere, especially in a ring.

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 10:33 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

So you are saying that Couture’s standup is equal to Fedor’s? LOL…Couture doesn’t have KO power either…nor is he as quick/agile.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 21, 2008 9:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Agreed.

Power: Fedor
Wrestling: Couture
Submission: Fedor
Youth: Fedor
Aura of motherfucking fear: Fedor

by cyph on Jul 22, 2008 10:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Don't forget what he's fighting in.

Randy is merely 3-3 outside of a cage.

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 10:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Logical rankings

I use a fairly linear system that privileges recent fights over old fights. By my reckoning, Barnett is not even a Top 10 Fighter. Mir isn’t even on the radar. I wipe out avenged losses, fights in other weight classes and steroid-tainted victories (eg. Barnett vs Couture). Here goes.

1. Emilianenko. He is virtually undefeated (he even avenged that cut-stoppage “loss”) and has beaten Nogueira twice and destroyed Sylvia.
2. Nogueira: Has beaten Sylvia, Herring, Werdum and CroCop. He has avenged a loss to Barnett, leaving only 2 losses to Emilianenko unavenged.
3. Couture: He’s also beaten Sylvia, but Emilianenko and Nogueira have far superior records. They also beat Sylvia more decisively.
4. Sylvia: His only defeats are to the 3 men above, a 4-year old loss to Mir and a twice avenged submission at the hands of Arlovski.
5. Arlovski: He beat Werdum and O’Brien. His only losses in 6 years are to Sylvia.
6. Werdum: In 3 years, he’s only lost to Nogueira and Arlovski. He’s beaten Gonzaga twice.

And this brings us to the league of Those Who’ve Beaten CroCop, who was until recently considered a Top 5 Heavyweight. Those are Emilianenko, Nogueira, Gonzaga and Kongo. For knocking out CroCop and putting up a fight with Couture, Gonzaga beats out Kongo.

7. Gonzaga
8. Velasquez: For beating O’Brien, who beat Herring, who beat Kongo.
9. O’Brien
10. Herring
11. Kongo
12. CroCop
13. Barnett: He has beaten NONE of the above except Couture 6 years in ago with Barnett failing a drug test. He has lost decisively on THREE occasions to the man at the bottom of the above rankings: CroCop.

by klown on Jul 21, 2008 11:58 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Dude

You seriously need to do your homework…not only did Barnett smash Couture before in 02’(even though he did use steroids prior to)...he beat Nogueira, Jeff Monson, Mark Hunt, and Alexander Emelianenko all within the past 2 years…all of which were top 10 except Monson…and he’s probably a top 15 HW. Guess what…if Barnett fought Couture right now…he would smash him again.

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on Jul 22, 2008 8:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Clearly Barnett needs to step up the comp.

If only he had been fighting the Brad Morrises of the world, we’d know so much more.

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 8:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Even if Barnett wasn’t roiding, that Couture fight was 6 years ago. Barnett’s defeat of Nogueira was swiftly avenged. Monson, Hunt and A.Emilianenko are not Top 10 fighters – Top 20 maybe. Monson has lost to Barnett and even Rizzo recently, not to mention Sylvia. A.Emilianenko has lost to Barnett, Werdum and brutally to CroCop. Hunt has lost to F.Emilianenko, Barnett and embarassingly, Yoshida and Overeem. Here’s my stab at rankings 11-21. The insertion of Vera and Mir is subjective since they have not fought the same people as the fighters around them, but I think their records are superior to Hunt’s 9-4.

11. Kongo
12. CroCop
13. Barnett
14. A. Emilianenko
15. Kharitanov
16. Overeem
17. Rizzo
18. Monson
19. Vera
20. Mir
21. Hunt

by klown on Jul 22, 2008 9:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

So, let's get this straight.

A guy with a 4-0 record and one questionably top 10 fighter (who is there for beating Herring because Herring beat Kongo who beat Cro Cop) on his resume beats a guy who has defeated the #2, #3, #14, #15, #17, #18, and #21 fighters. Wow. Keep digging.

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 10:05 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Couture: He’s also beaten Sylvia, but Emilianenko and Nogueira have far superior records. They also beat Sylvia more decisively.

Not to pile on, but I wouldn’t call Nog’s win over Sylvia more decisive than Couture’s—I’d say they’re roughly equal (losing, followed up by a nice sub v. 5 rounds of control).

Though I can’t say I agree with your rankings as they stand, but others have already voiced those opinions.

by Estrada on Jul 22, 2008 12:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Purre Marketing

Realistically this is more marketing then a fight. If Affliction can get Randy to fight Fedor in their ring it will provide big PPV buys. Plus the added benifit of Fedor destroying a UFC hall of famer, will just solidify Affiction’s claim of being the ‘New Future’ of the sport. I agree completely with the section here stating Randy doesn’t even deserve the honor. There are far more deserveing HW’s who would also be a bigger challenge for the Champ. Now I do want to see the fight, if just to shut Couture and his lil Kim up already. Couture has never been a dominate champion of either weight class and his record reflects just such a lack of dominace. How he retires after losing 4 of 8 fights to come back and win two, and be considered best in the world is just too much for me to wrap my head around. (Then doesn’t even honor his contract..Don’t hear Fedor crying & refusing to fight till he fights Randy) I don’t think Randy can beat Anderson Silva myself.

by Tommy7 on Jul 22, 2008 1:37 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

brentbrookhouse

I understand they had different gameplans. Yet both of them dropped Tim right away and took his back. Randy stalled out and did nothing while Fedor capitalized and closed the show. That difference is the difference between the two and will glare obvious if/when the two collide.

by Tommy7 on Jul 22, 2008 1:42 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

It is a Superfight!

We all want to see it so I think that it is a superfight. Fedor has more skills and is more well-rounded, but Randy is great. His losses do not negate some of his great performances even before he beat Sylvia. The fact that it will have the biggest PPV ever makes it a superfight. These are my two favourite fighters so I am sad that Randy will probably lose. JMO

I'll be back to add more in the next twenty-four...unless, by some mishap, someone K.O s FEDOR.

by prideUFCfan on Jul 22, 2008 1:47 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Not all of us

I’d much rather see Fedor fight Barnett than Randy. Hell, I might prefer a fight against Arlovski at this point.

by FRANKIE on Jul 22, 2008 10:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Same here. I don’t see Couture/Emelianenko being as good of a fight as either of those other possible match ups.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard on Jul 22, 2008 3:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It's a Super-Fight that has Mis-Match written all over it!

It will draw the money, but the fight itself won’t be anything special, it will be Fedor knocking Couture out in one minute.

by IHateMMA on Jul 22, 2008 1:52 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

One More Thing

How do we even entertain Randy and all his crying after he turned down the chance to fight Fedor for 3 million dollars???

by Tommy7 on Jul 22, 2008 1:53 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Silvia ahead of Arlovski?

How do people keep Tim ranked ahead of Andrei? I know about their 3 fights but still, just because you beat someone doesn’t lock you into a higher ranked position forever. Bottom line is Tim has dropped 3 out of his last four fights. Arlovski has won all four of his last four. Seems to me rankings need to be reconsidered across the board.

by Tommy7 on Jul 22, 2008 2:09 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

It’s simple. For Arlovski to overtake Sylvia in the rankings, he must beat one of Emilianenko, Nogueira, Couture, or Sylvia. It doesn’t matter how many wins you get if they’re against lower-ranked opponents than yourself. Sylvia has fought the 3 top heavyweights in the world – losing to them is no shame whatsoever.

by klown on Jul 22, 2008 2:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

there’s a little shame in barely lasting longer than Zulu.

by Michael Rome on Jul 22, 2008 2:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That’s a ridiculous way of maintaining rankings.

by FRANKIE on Jul 22, 2008 10:26 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

So, what happens when fighters split a pair of close fights, like Barnett and Noguiera? Where would Sam Greco end up in the rankings were he to come back tommorrow?

by D.Capitated on Jul 22, 2008 10:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Every Fedor fight is a mismatch. This one is stylistically interesting, because we saw Lindland get inside on Fedor pretty easily, and Fedor can cut. Obviously Fedor would be the huge favorite, but this is easily the best fight for Fedor right now. The idea that somehow Andrei Arlovski could put up a better fight is ridiculous. Couture would destroy him.

by Michael Rome on Jul 22, 2008 2:54 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Hell to the no!

Arlovski 2.0 would dismantle “Old Snake.”

by cyph on Jul 22, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well said

I don’t know Fedor well enough to know that all his fights are mismatched…but couldn’t agree more with the rest of yoru comment.

by ufcFANatic on Jul 30, 2008 12:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Arlovski might not put up a better fight than Randy, but Barnett would.

by FRANKIE on Aug 1, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Fedor would murder Randy

And Couture knows it. You can see it in his eyes. After witnessing that destruction in person, he wants no part of Fedor.

Fedor, Nogueira, Barnett, Werdum, and Randy. That’s your top five in order.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on Jul 22, 2008 5:37 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

How do you justify ranking Barnett #3?

For beating Rizzo? Scroll up to my rankings and tell me what I’m missing.

by klown on Jul 22, 2008 9:45 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You are missing ALOT

Barnett is ranked #3 because the only losses he has are to Cro Cop 3 times(when CC was ranked top 3 in the world I might add..and one of the 3 being to suffering an injury)...Nogueira…who he has also beaten…and Pedro Rizzo…whom he destroyed this past weekend….Now, tell me how you can justify Couture being ranked #3

http://tharealness.wordpress.com/

by Tha Realness on