How Can Affliction Compete With the UFC?
The bigger picture after a night in which UFC and Affliction went head-to-head, is not who had the better show, or were seen by the most fans (UFC on Spike TV undoubtedly drew the larger audience), but what it builds for the future.
The Affliction show, with a packed house, had a major-event atmosphere that was a stark difference from most of the promotional opponents UFC has faced off against over the past few years.
Several fighters, most notably former UFC heavyweight champions Andrei Arlovski and Josh Barnett, came across as potential superstars. The key is how well this first show did on pay-per-view, and if expected major losses in putting together such a loaded debut card affect the company going forward. Promoter Tom Atencio talked about a second show in November, and indicated he would like to match Emelianenko vs. Couture, but negotiating the match is out of his hands right now.
Several issues to consider here: PPV buys, star making capabilities with limited exposure, brand recognition and divisional growth.
More to the last point, I'll concede that Affliction could put together a very talented heavyweight division. "Could" being the operative word, though. They have a ton of major superstars, but that doesn't build a division. There has to be a range of talents, experience levels and more importantly, numbers for a real division to exist. Affliction certainly has the most difficult portion of the equation together already, but I'm not going to call a small group a division this early in the game.
And that's the other hurdle Affliction needs to overcome: building divisions for other weightclasses. It's easier to have a one-off event with great fighters than it is to build events where those deep divisions come to life. Since they aren't on television, they likely won't be able to create or showcase stars very effectively, which means they must sign away talent in order to grow. There's some room for that, but the ceiling is likely low.
None of this is to say Affliction can't do any of this, just that there are real challenges for them. If the PPV buys come back 100k or more, I suspect there will be some momentum.
But for me (and I'll talk more about this on MMA Nation), this drive to position and market the sport as a subset or intimately tied into some nebulous heavy metal, tattoo chic community is highly regrettable. This, by the way, coming from someone covered in tattoos and has all of Pantera's albums. The move is almost anachronistic and isn't sustainable for long term growth into the mainstream.
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I see a lot of douchebags wearing Affliction shirts
so there must be a market for it.
by thetakeover on
Jul 21, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
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I couldn’t imagine paying $70 for a t-shirt.
by SplitBreast on
Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
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The problem is, very few of those douchebags even know what mma is. If you want to have a jolly good time, go out to a bar and go up to guys wearing affliction, TapouT, OMR, etc.. and ask them if they train. In response, you will get the most confused looks you have ever seen.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
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My favorite is talking to people with fighter/event specific shirts, like Rampage’s chain shirt he wore when he beat Chuck etc, and striking up a conversation.
Me: “Nice shirt, I was at that fight”
Them: “What fight?”
Me: “The Rampage fight”
Them: “Huh?”
Me: “Alright, good talk. See you out there”
by Day Man on
Jul 21, 2008 2:10 PM EDT
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EXACTLY.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
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I buy Tapout, Warrior, and UFC shirts. I buy those shirts b/c they are affordable and b/c they directly support the sport. I do not intend on buying Affliction, One More Round, or Extreme Couture b/c they are too expensive and more than likely (my opinion) the majority of the cost is going back to the company not the fighters.
by lovingmma25 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:41 AM EDT
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typical stereotyping going on, it seems like....
Do you ask guys who wear nascar shirts if they go out to the track and race everyday?
I work in the mall and see all types of people wearing Tapout and UFC shirts from young kids to older men. Maybe there are some people who wear them for other reasons, but it looks like mainstream fans IMO
BTW you can find those shirts for $20 to $30
Another thing that’s funny is Dana calling people who wear Affliction pussy’s when GSP and Chuck both wear it! Cracks me up
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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BTW
Hate all you want, but yes I own an AFFLICTION: Banned Promotional shirt
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
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I wouldn't be caught dead wearing an Affliction shirt but...
Their image is what makes them money. If they manage to sell a shirt for how much as they do is because of their brand image.
Now that they started this new venture into promoting fights it would be very dumb to drop the only thing that has been steadly working for them. Who would do that? And most important why? Just to please a bunch of people that hate them no matter what? That’s just bad business.
by marcio on
Jul 21, 2008 10:39 AM EDT
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Maybe it's just me
Did anyone else feel like Affliction was puttin on a show for Satan? The advertising and the choice of band didn’t sit well with me. All of it seemed very demonic.
by lovingmma25 on
Jul 21, 2008 10:39 AM EDT
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More like Satan's grandpa...
I though Megadeath were “cool” in 1990.
by marcio on
Jul 21, 2008 10:43 AM EDT
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Megadeth...
... They’re so old I forgot their name for a second.
by marcio on
Jul 21, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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C’mon, Mustaine’s grey beard was rockin’!
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:04 PM EDT
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What’s with all the hate of not just Affliction shirts, but of anyone who might be wearing one? Doesn’t make sense to me. If you think the design style is ugly, so be it, but I don’t see how ‘dodgy taste in t-shirts’ equals loser.
I haven’t noticed any uproar here over Xtreme Couture shirts, which to me, look pretty similar.
When I think about it, I’d rather wear a shirt with a funky design, than, say a TAPOUT or UFC shirt, which usually sport little in the way of a design—just a big fat bold logo across the front instead.
by IImastersII on
Jul 21, 2008 10:47 AM EDT
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You're right...
...generalizations are stupid.
by marcio on
Jul 21, 2008 10:50 AM EDT
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UFC=Affliction=TapouT=Ext Couture=so on.
Unfortunately, it is the meat head douchebag guys in clubs that wear these. I wear some designer t-shirts on occasion, but would never wear one of the above, let alone out to a club. And I will never wear a shirt with another grown man’s name on it, i.e. Rampage, randy, GSP. Just like I would never wear one of my school’s t-shirts out to a club.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
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(Typing this in my favorite Anderson Silva Muay Thai College shirt)
Joooooooinnnnn uuuuuuuuuuussssss!
Seriously though, no I don’t own any Affliction stuff and I live in Hollywood which happens to be the epicenter of the Affliction D-Bag quake. Pretty much every bar has guys in a shiny/ostentatious/ugly Affliction shirts that are at least one size too small, which to me is no big deal, however those shirts have become some sort of alpha male tag that these guys wear to make themselves feel tough and a good amount of time they act in conjunction with that feeling. That’s the general issue. (And its the same for Xtreme Couture)
In closing, I would just like to say…the wider the waistband, the deeper the quicksand.
by Day Man on
Jul 21, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
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lololol, nice closing!!
I think you hit on a good point. Much of the phenomenon may have to do with the location. Obviously, I am in Denver and there is a pretty good nightlife here and a fairly large mma fanbase. Unfortunately, when you go out, there are so many of these dudes creeping around and acting like they actually are mma fighters. It is sort of a local joke that everyone in Denver fights mma.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:26 PM EDT
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I'm slightly confused.
How is it that Affliction could potentially have a talented heavyweight division when its virtually inargurable that they already have the most talented heavyweight division for any single promotion on earth? I mean, really, after Gonzaga at #3, there is a big drop to Carwin, Velazquez, Mir, and McCully.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 10:53 AM EDT
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In your humble opinion...
Other than McCully, it’s debatable where to put Lesnar, Nogueira, Carwin, Valasquez, and Mir. That’s why you fight.
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 10:58 AM EDT
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Huh?
Well, Noguiera is clearly the best the UFC has, and Werdum is a pretty obvious 2nd. Carwin and Velazquez haven’t fought anybody, for the most part. Mir has looked horrible against mid level comp. Lesnar doesn’t even deserve to be in Gary Goodridge’s ballpark yet.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 12:41 PM EDT
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In your biased opinion...
Valasquez just destroyed someone who beat Herring and gave Arlovski fits.
Lesnar could very well beat Herring. If you think Goodridge is better than Lesnar, then you’re obviously biased. In a fight between no-ground wonder Sylvia and MMA newby Lesnar, I would take Lesnar.
Mir has made a come back after his horrible accident.
MMA Math doesn’t mean anything. If it were, Cro Cop would be UFC heavyweight champ, and Shogun Rua would be LHW champ.
“That’s why they play the game”
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
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Yeah...
There’s a guy who lost to a light heavyweight, go KOed while he was mounting someone, and then got in the ugliest grappling battle this side of a KOTC opener with Herring.
Hey, maybe if Dan Severn fought Fedor, he’d win by STF. Gotta fight the fights!
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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He beat Mirko CroCop
He also beat Mirko CroCop who was the Pride OWGP champ, a fighter who gave Fedor the hardest fight of his life; then he beat Heath Herring, the guy who almost KOed Nogueira.
Why are you still using MMA Math to back up your biased opinion of an inferior UFC heavy weight division?
Affliction’s division is top heavy with Arlovski, Fedor, Sylvia, and Barnett. However, the UFC has the better division due to its depth and quality top to bottom.
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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:yawn:
How is it MMath to bring up the fact that Lesnar is 1-1? Or that Carwin has yet to face a legitimate top 30 heavyweight? That Fedor is clearly the top heavyweight in the world? It is what it is. Carwin might be a great fighter. Too bad he hasn’t proven anything near greatness against anyone decent, nor will he until he has to face someone at the very top. Cain might be a great fighter, but ditto.
They have more guys, but I’ll take Rothwell and Rizzo over Eddie Sanchez, Christian Wellisch, and Frank Mir any day of the week. If your point is that the ratings are entirely subjective, they are. Its just that some people have reason for doing rankings that make sense, and some don’t. You can choose to fall into the latter category if you wish.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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Fedor is the #1 HW...
other than that… opinions/assholes/stinks
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:43 PM EDT
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Why am I not surprised?
I will take this as a learning experience, and I’m going with Karelin as #2, Tyson at #3, Time Machine Retrirevd Abraham Lincoln #4, and Jesus as my P4P king. Let them fight it out to prove it!
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:49 PM EDT
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I knew you were crazy since the day you posted on Fight Opinion...
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:52 PM EDT
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speaking of which….did zach let you guys out of your cages over there….....is that why have the pleasure of SOS on a diff site? what’s next….45 huddle stinking up the elbow?
by robnashville on
Jul 21, 2008 10:04 PM EDT
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Ah, speculation!
Well, Velazquez is the guy from those 3 vaunted prospects who’s done the best thus far against the highest level of competition, but does that mean he vaults over guys like Barnett or Arlovski? Not in my mind. “That’s why they fight the fights” is a nice sentence, but he’s not fought anyone near the level those men have on a regular basis.
Lesnar could also very easily get kicked in the head and KOed. He’s done nothing to establish that he’s any better than Dan Christianson, or for that matter, Goodridge. Do you have any proof to the contrary? Maybe when he F-5’d the Big Show?
Mir’s comeback is a joke. He got roasted twice (one by a guy who’s already out of the UFC), got a gift decision, and then beat a pro wrestler with a 1-0 record in real fights and the worst fighter in the entire UFC heavyweight division. That he beat Sylvia was shocking before, but that they couldn’t even get that fight licensed for a rematch this year speaks volumes.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:22 PM EDT
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...because he got in an accident?
Damn, you’re biased. You’re probably the same guy who dismissed Fedor when he first fought in Pride.
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:38 PM EDT
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Well...
He’s kinda sucked ever since he got in an accident. Don’t blame me for getting sliced up by Pe De Pano, being beaten senseless by a very ordinary Vera, or being given one of the more hilarious judges decisions in recent history against the largely talentless Christensen (where were the claims of “fix” for that?). I love how Lesnar is really good because Lesnar is really good, and so Mir beating him is even better by default than being really good.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
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I can play that game...
Arlovski sucks because:
He lost to Sylvia twice, who just got demolished in 36 secs. He could barely beat Blanket O’Brien who just got destroyed by a UFC newby in Valasquez. He lost against an over the hill Pedro Rizzo and Rodriguez. Then he beat Cruz by cheating and pulling on the linked fence. Arlovski sucks!
Isn’t MMA Math wonderful?
Look, you’re convinced the UFC HW division sucks and there’s nothing that can change your mind. It’s called bias and you, sir, are biased.
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
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He lost to Sylvia twice, who just got demolished in 36 secs. He could barely beat Blanket O’Brien who just got destroyed by a UFC newby in Valasquez. He lost against an over the hill Pedro Rizzo and Rodriguez. Then he beat Cruz by cheating and pulling on the linked fence. Arlovski sucks!
Isn’t MMA Math wonderful?
Pedro Rizzo was “over the hill” in 2002? He beat Ricco when Ricco had just been robbed against Noguiera in PRIDE. Arlovski barely beat O’Brien by stopping him. He sure didn’t get stopped by Pe De Pano. I mean, I get that you’re trying to prove a point, but you’re doing it all wrong.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
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Err
I was thinking of Rizzo/Ricco. Arlovski did lose to the then future UFC heavyweight champion, of course. Again, kinda confused how a guy who later beat Randy was “over the hill” in the middle of his prime.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
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In my opinion...
....The UFC doesn’t have much of a heavyweight “division” either. Affliction has a nice foundation for one. But like Luke said a division goes from the lowest level guys to prospects to gate keepers to upper level guys to the elite. Affliction has a bit of work to create a full division. But it is a very good start.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by brentbrookhouse on
Jul 21, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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Its top heavy...
...but its also the cream of the crop. If Randy never fights again, then they have three of the top 4 heavyweight fighters in the world, and if he does, it seems likely it’ll be under their banner. All the UFC has are guys that are potentially heavyweight champs of the far future that they need to take care of before they put them in the deep water way too fast (which I sorta expect).
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 3:28 PM EDT
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One thing Affliction can do is increase production value whilst remaining taut and succinct. If they can market themselves as an “upscale” American MMA promotion they could do well to compete with the UFC.
by Flying Gogoplata on
Jul 21, 2008 10:58 AM EDT
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If Affliction really wants to compete, they’ll need to be patient and open up the pocket books. Didn’t Zuffa lose $40 million on the first 20 UFC events? Like Luke says, they’ll need a lot more fighters—Tito and Randy would definately create buzz.
Since they aren’t on television, they likely won’t be able to create or showcase stars very effectively
Why wouldn’t they should pursue a weekly MMA show or a UFC Countdown-type show on Fox Sports Net, where the free undercard was shown?
by steak_knife on
Jul 21, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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UFC lost 40 mil when they were the only game in town...
Affliction has to prosper in an era with EliteXC and the 800-pound gorilla actively putting them out of business. Lets not forget that one division does not equal a promotion.
by cyph on
Jul 21, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
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I’m shocked at how much worse this was on TV than live in person, now that I’m watching it.
by Michael Rome on
Jul 21, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
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how exacty?
among the many things affliction has going against them is not being able to use a lot of the footage of the fighters in between fights. so instead we have to hear twinkle toes and the other commentators ramble on and on about the guys fighting.
by monkeyfightclub! on
Jul 21, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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Now you understand all the negative comments. Luke was right, it was at the point where it was almost unbearable to watch.
by steveoc24 on
Jul 21, 2008 2:12 PM EDT
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This is what I think Affliction needs to do.
1) Get a preview show on TV, much like the WFA did on Showtime a couple years ago.
2) Don’t hire any more musical groups.
3) Go to a cage. I like the ring, but much of the group they are marketing to prefers cages.
4) Get some lighter weight fighters.
5) They have the big names, now put them in big match ups. I’m all for having Randy/Fedor, Josh/Fedor, Aleks/AA, AA/Fedor and so on, and I know they can’t shoot their load right off the bat, but i believe they need to have Fedor/Randy or Fedor/Josh on their next show, or they may not be around long enough to ever have them.
6) get their cards replayed on HDNet or FoxSports or such.
7) Find a way to convey their big show excitement from the arena to the TV.
8) Get announcers that are more polished and better at filling dead air.
9) Find a way to pay fighters with bonuses or ppv cuts rather than the reportedly high salaries.
10) Market their product better.
I think it is wrong to compare the UFN to Affliction, we should be comparing 84, 85 or 86 to Affliction.
Any word on ppv #s yet?
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
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Another note on the cage...
...they were talking so much about the benefits of the ring. And in the end it ended up more as them defending the choice to use a ring rather than showing that the ring can be a good thing. There was WAY too much “spilling out of the ring” for my tastes. That being said I don’t mind my MMA in a ring. But I think the cage is the way to go.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by brentbrookhouse on
Jul 21, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
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how about
free t-shirts for those purchasing tickets the first day tickets go on sale
by lovingmma25 on
Jul 21, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
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Good God NOOOO!!!
That would only make more Affliction shirts I have to see, lol!
Seriously, that isn’t a bad idea, but i don’t think the live gate is a problem. The numbers that will make the difference are ppvs. perhaps they could work some kind of t-shirt deal in conjunction with pre-ordering the ppv or something.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
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This is very easy. Limited edition (Designed for the PPV) Affliction shirt for ordering the PPV. It costs them almost nothing to make the shirt and if they promoted it right enough of the “t-shirt” crowd might buy just to get the shirt, or at the very least bring a lot of the people on the fence over.
by Day Man on
Jul 21, 2008 2:44 PM EDT
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Maybe then I could recoup some of the PPV cost by selling the shirt on eBay? ha
by Richard on
Jul 21, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
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Just thinking
I added that as a suggestion b/c it always looks good for the tickets to the event to sell out quick. For example, the UFC’s first event in Canada sold out in 2 days. That was a first for the company. So if Affliction really wanted to get bodies in the arena why not give away t-shirts with ticket purchase.
by lovingmma25 on
Jul 21, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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Just for kicks...
Webster’s:
Main Entry:
af·flic·tion Listen to the pronunciation of affliction
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈflik-shən\
Function:
noun
Date:
14th century
1 : the state of being afflicted
2 : the cause of persistent pain or distress
3 : great suffering
Yep, that’s what i want to wear around, lol.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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I should wear Affliction shirts to work. Describes my day pretty accurately.
by AJB on
Jul 21, 2008 2:44 PM EDT
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Nice!
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 21, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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Well, I work for the government. Which I guess means I’m both suffering and the cause of persistent pain to others.
On the upside, I get lots of time to post on Bloody Elbow.
by AJB on
Jul 21, 2008 6:52 PM EDT
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Definition of Affliction
3 : great suffering
That’s about what I was experiencing until Barnett knocked out Rizzo.
Then things turned around in a most spectacular fashion.
by Brett Jones on
Jul 21, 2008 4:59 PM EDT
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Compared to the abject failure that was the UFC HW division for years, I’d say Affliction has a pretty impressive roster after one show. Aleks is their only real “prospect” at the moment, but they have the clout to attract names if this first show is even a modest success. And at 205 and 185 they now have a couple guys ready to carry the flag. And of course, they just created a rock-solid bank of highlight footage to use for their next event.
Clearly Affliction has some challenges ahead, but I still don’t see why there is so much pessimism surrounding them, in terms of fight quality their first show was a total success, and the buzz in the PPV industry has them beating the predictions for buyrates. A lot of people seem to have the attitude that they peaked with the first show, but I think they’ll be in a position of greater opportunity for their next event.
by smoogy on
Jul 21, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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If Affliction actually comes close to breaking even....
...then the new talking point becomes that no one would watch a second event because of Jay Glazer/lighting/Megadeth/the ugly belt/some combination of those.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 21, 2008 2:49 PM EDT
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They wont break even I think...
But if they did it would be awsome just to see the outrageous levels of panic and hate from the UFC fan boys.
by marcio on
Jul 21, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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If they break even on this event they’ll make a believer out of me.
by Richard on
Jul 21, 2008 4:00 PM EDT
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