UFC, Affliction Results and Afterthoughts
I'll discuss more tomorrow. It's very late where I am and I'm very tired. What I will say is that Affliction is absolutely dreaming if they believe they can rival the UFC. Their PPV was horrendous to the point of unwatchability at times. The inclusion of Megadeth was beyond bizarre and the epitome of the word perfunctory. By contrast, the UFC product was tight, sound, crisp and cogent all the way through. A little repetitive? Yes. A little unoriginal at certain intervals? Yes. But by far the more professional product that cared more about the sport? Unequivocally, yes. The Affliction show was a metal concert with MMA fights in between. The UFC show was a showcase of high-end fighters battling their hearts out. The contrast couldn't be more clear.
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High End fighters
Like i said in the other post i don’t think that the UFC showcased higher end fighters overall, (no disrespect to anderson silva) Affliction had the better card on paper but the production and the way things were done made the UFC seem like it had the bigger fights/names.
It was there first PPV and i’m sure they’ll learn from their mistakes on how to make things better.
Ohh and does anyone really think that Matt Lindland would stand a chance against Anderson Silva. That’s laughable after his performance tonight. I understand he was off for a year but theres Anderson doesn’t stop him in the first round.
by TannerMatthews on Jul 20, 2008 3:04 AM EDT 0 recs
I’m seeing a lot of people grasping at straws defending the Affliction event. What was so great about it? One good fight and bunch of duds? A dominant performance by Fedor to cap things off nicely. That wasn’t even close enough to merit all of this “best heavyweight card ever assembled” rhetoric.
by Popetastic on Jul 20, 2008 3:06 AM EDT 0 recs
I’m not sure what you were watching, but I saw a very admirable effort from a first time promotion that put on an unbelievable card.
Did we need Megadeth? Of course not. But I’m sorry, I watched the rebroadcast of UFN after the Affliction PPV and the 2 were incomparable. Affliction had the clearly superior product, and despite the obvious flaws that should be expected in any first broadcast, enjoyed Affliction more than any UFC event this year.
I hope they put on a second show, and learn from their mistakes and feedback.
by iki on Jul 20, 2008 3:07 AM EDT 0 recs
Jesus
I really wonder what you people were watching. It is like people get scared of something that is even a twinge different. What exactly are UFC’s great production values? UFC has had the same stale image for quite a while now. People always say, “oh, but it is like BOXING.” Clearly, these people have never seen a boxing card on Showtime or HBO and probably just like to shoot their mouth off to sound bright on the internet.
I think a thing that a lot of people are missing the point on is that Affliction was fun, UFC was business as usual. It is a sport and sports are supposed to be entertaining. Just because you, personally, didn’t want to see Megadeth or see a bunch of the top heavyweights in the world fight and would rather watch UFC’s business as usual doesn’t mean that everybody wants that.
I caught UFN after and honestly, I was still amped up from Affliction and it was near unwatchable. This isn’t pro wrestling, nobody cares about “the business” or “the product” or any of that, this is mixed martial arts, what matters is promoters putting on exciting, entertaining cards.
So many internet fans have tunnel vision and seemingly just want UFC to be the only game in town and trample the rest. You really have to wonder sometimes.
by Locust Star on Jul 20, 2008 3:09 AM EDT 0 recs
Inevitably, people are going to compare the 2 shows, because they were directly competing. However, if you look at Banned on its own, it was not good. I don’t know about some people, but I would prefer a show with unknown but capable announcers and PA guys. I would prefer silence to bad metal. And mostly, I would prefer good fights or potentially good fights, rather than obvious mismatches. I think I picked every fight correctly on this card, and I am terrible at picking fights, lol.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:16 AM EDT
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Stale Image
Actually they changed that up quie a bit, i thought it looked good. ESPN/Sports Center like
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:16 AM EDT
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UFC is the Major League of MMA
On paper, Affliction had the better card going into the night.
In reality, UFC managed to turn a mid-level card into a winner. They had the better fights and the better product tonight - not even close. I watched the fights at a sports bar and mid-way through the Affliction event, people started chanting for the UFC card to be shown with sound. It wasnt even close - UFC has the better fights, the better fighters in general and everyone else is simply grasping.
Affliction sells good clothing, UFC sells one amazing MMA product—both should stick to what they know best.
by HoustonRaven on Jul 20, 2008 3:11 AM EDT 0 recs
Maybe they were just chanting to have the Affliction sound turned off, lol.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:18 AM EDT
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Or something. They had the PPV up on the huge screen and the UFC on the of the smaller TV’s in the bar. Everyone was cramming their necks to see the UFC fight after the 2nd Affliction fight.
I do agree that UFC’s look is getting old, but it was still the winner tonight.
by HoustonRaven on
Jul 20, 2008 3:25 AM EDT
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I enjoyed the Affliction card as a whole, but they definitely need to fix a lot of their production problems. I don’t mind giving them a pass on show #1 as I assume that’s one of the harder things to get right from the onset.
Plus, the UFC gets negative points for Mike Goldberg saying, “His precision is…precise.”
by Mike Fagan on Jul 20, 2008 3:11 AM EDT 0 recs
Affliction was some weak sauce.
Megadeth was horrible.
The fights were predictable and one sided.
Buffer was terrible.
The announcing was amateurish.
If that was a UFC show, everyone would be bitching about it.
UFN was just as bad, but free.
Goldberg is really annoying me. “His precision is very…precise”. What the Hell was that??
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on Jul 20, 2008 3:12 AM EDT 0 recs
“Stone” Steve Austin??
I guess i expect more from him, as he is probably the best ring announcer ever.
I know that is fairly petty, but like I said, I set the bar a little higher for M. Buffer.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:22 AM EDT
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lol
I like how Dave Meltzer, a guy who has been reporting and analyzing the sport since it first spawned sees Affliction as a real threat, while BloodyElbow.com and pockets of the internet are so quick to say, “NO IT WAS STUPID AND UFC IS THE BEST DID YOU SEE ALL OF THOSE EVEN MATCHUPS?!” I for one know that James Irvin vs. Anderson Silva is an incredibly well-matched fight. I’m glad they can bombard us with such a top flight card while Affliction can just give us crap like Rothwell/Arlovski, Barnett/Rizzo and Fedor/Sylvia. Ugh. Disgrace.
by Locust Star on Jul 20, 2008 3:16 AM EDT 0 recs
Wow
Way to totally miss the point. No one is discussing the quality of fighters or fights per se. What we are discussing in this post is how they are showcased, which is arguably more important. On that level, Affliction failed hard.
by Luke Thomas on
Jul 20, 2008 3:18 AM EDT
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No, I am!! lol.
Affliction had some great fighters and some interesting fighters, it was their matchups that stunk. Locust listed 3 one sided fights, but if you rework the matches, you could have had better fights, Fedor/barnett the obvious one. Hopefully that will be on Affliction 2.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:20 AM EDT
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Hopefully there is an Affliction 2. :)
Thinking on it though, the second card has the potential to get quite a few buys, since they’ll be able to market it using footage of this first card.
Fedor vs. Barnett is much more appealing to me than Randy vs. Fedor anyway.
by iki on
Jul 20, 2008 3:22 AM EDT
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Who honestly thought that Sylvia/Fedor was going to be so onesided.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:23 AM EDT
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I expected it to end in rd 1 or maybe 2, but not in 30 secs or so.
Barnett was the far better matchup, but Sylvia may have more drawing power, which in itself is a sad statement.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:25 AM EDT
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I think Arlovski would have been the better draw if that was the case. I think more people tend to like him than Tim not that either are a huge draw. I’m just saying i don’t think that should be consider a lopsided match up even though the in the end it was one.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:29 AM EDT
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The problem is, they had the 2 best HWs in the world on the card, and they weren’t fighting each other.
I would have preferred something like
Fedor/Josh
AA/Aleks
Sylvia/Rizzo
Rothwell/Buentello
I know that’s asking a lot, but if you want to make a dent in the UFC, you have to bring it. Assuming they are going to have Randy at some point, there are still compelling matches after that. You only get one shot at the first impression.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:36 AM EDT
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I think with the Arlovski/Rothwell and Sylvia/Fedor fight they left a good impression. I think regardless of what happens they’re going to run atleast 2 or 3 shows. I think they had to kind of set themselves up to have a decent second show as well.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:39 AM EDT
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Yeah, and don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of mma, not promotions. Sometimes I like a cage, other times a ring.
I hope they succeed, and if they put together a compelling card, I will buy it. However, if I was a casual fan, I may not.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:41 AM EDT
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I don’t think many casual fans bought this at all. Maybe a few people that are REALLY into the clothing line.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:49 AM EDT
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Agreed. i watched it with 2 casual fans, and neither were impressed by it.
They also were not that impressed by teh UFN, but they know the UFC and that it is normally more impressive.
I see this like UFC is the champ, and you have to beat the champ. Affliction threw some big punches, but few landed, imo.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:52 AM EDT
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Why would you put on a potentially huge fight in Barnett/Fedor when neither of them have any reliable pull in the states? Both of them need to be built up. Tonight was a good step for both.
by Mike Fagan on
Jul 20, 2008 3:40 AM EDT
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“Barnett was the far better matchup, but Sylvia may have more drawing power, which in itself is a sad statement.”
Right up above you a bit.
How many ppvs more do you think they sold by having Fedor/Sylvia?
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:42 AM EDT
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I have no idea. But there’s a lot more potential money to be made in Fedor/Barnett if built properly. There isn’t much big money potential in Sylvia for obvious reasons.
by Mike Fagan on
Jul 20, 2008 3:45 AM EDT
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I agree with that, but I think they may have lost some viewers with tonights show. they need to get Randy asap, even though there are a few fights I would prefer to see, like Fedor/Josh or Fedor/AA.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:46 AM EDT
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wow, you're funny
did you really just wrote that the way that a fight is presented is more important than the fighters and the actual fight? that is too funy in a very sad kind of way.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 3:22 AM EDT
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You didn't understand
To the people that are new, the casual fan, tho whom these people are trying to sell the PPV the UFC is going to come across as a better product for some people. Most of these people have know idea who Fedor is. So most people aren’t buying it on whether or not Fedor is fighting or Arlovski rather than the package they see as a whole. the fights, the production, the commentating, the flow. etc…
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:25 AM EDT
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sorry to double post
My dad watches the UFC with us and he knows some but he’s more of a casual fan. I relate his opinion to what i would perceive to be a casual fan. And the first thing he said about Affliction was this looks like the EliteXC show.
On that note as Anderson Silva as a draw, He thinks he’s a bad mother fucker because everytime he’s seen him fight he destroys someone and thats what he remebers.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:28 AM EDT
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further lolification
Apologies, I am summarizing here from the overall tone of posts on the site as well as comments on said posts. I am not saying that you, Luke Thomas, in this very post, went out and said “Affliction had bad fights.”
Presentation is important, but how important is it? You are really overestimating the importance of it, I think. UFC’s production is tired, and adding new graphics is what it is, but it is also incredibly long overdue. UFC has been using the same stat-run-down music for how long now? They’ve been using that silly gladiator intro and really bad nu-metal for ages as well. While it is one thing to say that Megadeth are dated, I’m pretty sure at this point they have (or still have, I guess you could say) a bigger fan base than some failed band signed to Zuffa Records playing Linkin Park-esque music.
I watched Affliction with a bunch of fans that had no clue as to an sort of industry-wide struggle for power or jockeying for position. Hell, they thought Affliction was a UFC event, just with different branding like WEC. Why? Because they aren’t like us, they aren’t reading and writing about MMA daily. Nobody I watched it with was complaining about the event looking or feeling cheap, they were watching the fights.
UFC, like WWE, is a Leviathan. Unbending, unforgiving, just overall stubborn that their way is the right way. Affliction tried something different, they presented their show as “edgy” and “darker.” It was a “heavy metal” presentation as opposed to UFC’s attempt to distance itself with such displays in lieu of being seen as legit. Obviously, there will be a market for both. At least Affliction had a vision and an idea, the execution wasn’t perfect, but it was something different, which I believe that we, as fight fans, really needed. If you, yourself didn’t need that, fine, you can have the same UFC show monthly or even a few times a month.
A disaster, something completely awful looking in presentation is YAMMA. As usual, hyperbole rules the world.
I don’t think I missed any point, do you?
by Locust Star on
Jul 20, 2008 3:32 AM EDT
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just had to say, props for “lolification”. Well done.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:43 AM EDT
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But, Locust...
C’mon now. UFC is state of the art with their production and hype methods. They invented the hype show several years after HBO and a few decades after ABC. Plus, they know all the popular bands to use for background music. Stemm is a big deal.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 20, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
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Hah
So, basically, you’re saying you watch MMA for promo pieces instead of fights. Hey, you know, Affliction could have kept the PPV 3 hours, had no hour preshow, and just picked whichever “prelim” would have worked after the 3 heavyweight bouts were over. Would it have been “tighter” to not show the entire card? Would that have made it a better show for the fan?
by D.Capitated on
Jul 20, 2008 9:52 AM EDT
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I get exactly what he said.
He’s basically saying the packaging is more important for him than the bouts. Who cares that Affliction showed 5 hours of high end MMA last night? Luke doesn’t. That they had 6 of the 20 best heavyweights in the world fighting, but he glosses over that to make a point about Megadeth, who played for what must have been a whopping 15 or so minutes combined over the course of 4 hours in 3 short segments. “The announcing was mediocre! The backstage segments not incredible! Food so bad, portions so small!”
by D.Capitated on
Jul 20, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
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You're so right Locust
This is what happens when ufc fan boys like Luke Thomas get to pretend they’re reporters. We get this UFC nuthugging parade. I just can’t stop laughing. What a joke.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 3:32 AM EDT
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Well..
I don’t know, people are of course allowed to have their opinions, but just like when you have a guy like Sean Sherk swearing up and down and being overly defensive about him NOT using steroids, it makes him look all the more suspect, it is the same when you have people immediately after two shows decrying one and praising the other. Really, even if you watched both at the same time, or one after the other, do you really think that you are going to have an objective point of view?
We all have our favorites, and that is cool, but c’mon. I know I’ll actually watch UFN a bit closer tomorrow as opposed to just shouting out about how much it sucked and how the fights were just “ok” compared to Affliction. Why? Because I was completely abuzz after Affliction, it was a really fun event as a whole with a lot of energy and good fights. UFC presents something different and I really wasn’t up for it tonight. I’ll watch it tomorrow and it’ll probably seem a lot different than it did replayed tonight on Spike. No?
by Locust Star on
Jul 20, 2008 3:43 AM EDT
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I am not applauding the UFN, outside of the fact it was free.
For instance…Goldy is sometimes terrible, Joe gets tiresome on occasion (though he was fine tonight), Bruce and his annoying “surprise, spin and point”, all the mishmash between fights (even on the ppvs), some poor match making on par with Affliction…
i would compare them similarly fight wise, which is what truly matters, but UFC already has the viewers, so Affliction must do something big to take them away.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:50 AM EDT
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oh come on... bit harsh of buffer.
buffer – ‘the surprise, spin and point.’
what’s he supposed to do (not do it now?) and it’s his one moment to shine. :)
that said – we were all imitating him by the silva fight.
by Ronnie Liddle on
Jul 20, 2008 4:46 AM EDT
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yeah, we were all doing it as well, lol.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 1:07 PM EDT
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You clearly don't read this site
I criticize the UFC and Dana White on a DAILY basis. So which is it, I am a UFC nut hugger or just a UFC hater?
by Luke Thomas on
Jul 20, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
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Luke Thomas as a UFC fan boy? Holy crap, you’re new. Seriously, maybe some of you new guys should sit back and just read the site for a little while before you start commenting.
by Richard on
Jul 20, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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I completely disagree. It was new, and fresh, and besides Megadeth, (ugh) it was infinitely more enjoyable than the UFC’s tired, stale formula and horrible commentating.
by iki on Jul 20, 2008 3:19 AM EDT 0 recs
Id love for you to send me whatever it is you’re smoking this evening.
by HoustonRaven on
Jul 20, 2008 3:27 AM EDT
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I’m not saying I agree or disagree with your opinion, but could you tell me what you found new and fresh about it? Not being condescending, I truly am interested to see your viewpoint.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:27 AM EDT
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I would however, like to thank Atencio for providing AA the opportunity to show how overrated Rothwell is.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on Jul 20, 2008 3:30 AM EDT 0 recs
me too
I sounded like such a hater talking about Rothwell to people but he was way overhyped (by himself and his manager) about beating up some guys in the IFL. There’s no way he should be making 200k a fight.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:32 AM EDT
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man..
I thought he looked pretty tough out there, taking all of that damage. Sure, he was sloppy, nowhere near as accurate as Andrei was. Didn’t have the head movement, the timing, accuracy, etc., but he at least made a decent showing against a top heavyweight. He is well on his way to being a better fighter, and at least we know actually know where he stands, right?
by Locust Star on
Jul 20, 2008 3:34 AM EDT
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You sir are correct
Again i’ll agree there. He’s a tough guy and I think he’s a good fighter. I just don’t think that he’s one of the big dogs yet and he and Monte Cox seemed to think he was
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:36 AM EDT
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Well..
I think it is his job to say that he is. Honestly, his IFL run was impressive, but I think most of us realized that he wasn’t fighting top competition. The Ricco fight was his first litmus test, and this was his second. He showed that he can give a top fighter trouble, but that he himself isn’t that top fighter. Hell, he could be some day if he dropped some weight, tightened up his cardio and worked on improving his stand up. He relies on being a big dude with heavy hands, and that only goes so far. Maybe he’d do OK against a guy like Buentello, but against a guy like AA that wasn’t going to cut it.
by Locust Star on
Jul 20, 2008 3:39 AM EDT
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Right, and I know these guys kinda got bloated paydays from affliction but i could see why some people would pass when the dude thought he should be making Rampage Jackson money.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:42 AM EDT
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Agreed. Props to him for taking a beating. That sounds funny, but i mean it sincerely. he withstood some nasty shots that other fighters have not.
That said, I was tired of hearing how this was going to be the upset of the night and I think it also showed Dana that he was wrong in his treatment of AA, though I think he realized that towards the end.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
by BJJDenver on
Jul 20, 2008 3:39 AM EDT
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I agree with Luke here. It was, like he said, at times almost unwatchable. Do I care that Big John is in Andrei Arlovski’s locker room and giving us an update that Freddie Roach is…gasp...taping Andrei’s hands? Wow, that’s hard hitting. Michael Buffer failed miserably at MMA announcing, Megadeth was ridiculously awful, and the announce team was absolutely terrible.
Trigg, at one point, was talking about he and Jay Glazer in the showers at the gym. At one point Trigg was giving Mike Whitehead, a training partner, advice on the fight from the announce table. How unprofessional does it get? The sound kept cutting out in the beginning and for an extended period of time we were listening to the Spanish announcers. It was clear that Affliction didn’t have all their shit together tonight and in terms of presenting the sport as a sport, the UFC was heads and shoulders above them in that regard.
by Adam Morgan on Jul 20, 2008 3:34 AM EDT 0 recs
Spanish?
I never, ever heard any Spanish. Maybe you should take this up with your local cable provider as opposed to simply implying that it was a production flaw. But then again, maybe Comcast just got it right for once and everybody else got it wrong?
by Locust Star on
Jul 20, 2008 3:36 AM EDT
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Yes, forget that we had some of the more memorable fights and great finishes involving some of the greatest fighters in the sports history. Instead, let’s talk about how pretty everything wasn’t in between, and how, on their very first show, there were some technical difficulties and awkward commenting moments.
Let’s also completely gloss over how lackluster the UFC’s card was, and talk about their production.
Sounds good.
by iki on
Jul 20, 2008 3:42 AM EDT
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like luke said up there ^
Wow
Way to totally miss the point. No one is discussing the quality of fighters or fights per se. What we are discussing in this post is how they are showcased, which is arguably more important. On that level, Affliction failed hard.
by Luke Thomas on Jul 20, 2008 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:44 AM EDT
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The question is, why ARENT they talking about the “quality of fighters or fights per se.”
Isn’t that what, you know, we paid to see?
by iki on
Jul 20, 2008 3:45 AM EDT
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yeah
But i think that discussion was in the post before this but everyone is replying here.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:46 AM EDT
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That has been discussed previously and I believe in another post currently.
by Richard on
Jul 20, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
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The point is a joke
”...What we are discussing in this post is how they are showcased, which is arguably more important.”
Putting production values ahead of the quality of fighters and fights is stupid. The fights are the product.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 3:48 AM EDT
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Right
It depends on whom you’re marketing it to. Hardcore fans aren’t going to give two shits when its a good fight. Casual fans may.
by TannerMatthews on
Jul 20, 2008 3:50 AM EDT
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Sure
But who expected that Affliction could surpass UFC’s production values in their first show? UFC has been doing this for years, it’s to be expected that they’re better at their packaging. Making a big deal out of this is not a serious argument.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 3:56 AM EDT
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re:
Affliction wasn’t being marketed solely to concert roadies and TV editors. It was being marketed to fight fans.
by D.Capitated on
Jul 20, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
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That's right...
Fight fans, not UFC fans, those don’t give a shit about any other organization.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
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Well, UFC fans are who they’re going to need to convert if they want to continue to exist.
by Richard on
Jul 20, 2008 1:49 PM EDT
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Not really, I believe that there’s lot more MMA fans that strictly UFC fans. Most of those transitioned from the WWE, so they are all about brand fidelity.
Fight fans will at least have an apreciatiation for the Affliction card and if they didn’t bomb in ppv buys and are able to do a second show they’ll do much better.
by marcio on
Jul 20, 2008 1:59 PM EDT
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Well, here is the thing..
It just comes across as rather crass and like there might be masked intentions that Affliction put on what was a pretty fun night of fights, and UFC put on their show, and that the talk is going to production valu


