BJ Penn to Fight Winner of Fitch/GSP

by Tha Realness on Jul 2, 2008 4:09 PM EDT

Jason Perkins of www.fightline.com has the news:

UFC 87 will go a long way towards determining BJ Penn's future opponents. Penn recently told Fighters Club TV that he is set to move up to 170 to face the winner of UFC 87's Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch contest. The fight, contingent on the health of the victor, will take place at the UFC's annual New Year's Eve card this December 27th in Las Vegas.
Penn also plans to retain his lightweight title and will likely face the winner of Kenny Florian vs. Roger Huerta, which also takes place at UFC 87, at a later date.

Penn also left open the option of moving up to middleweight after cleaning out the light and welterweight divisions.

I'm all for the best fighter's fighting one another. However, I'm also not a fan of fighter's moving between weight classes...especially if they are the champ. It just causes alot of problems as far as stability/rankings within weight divisions. If Penn were to beat the winner of Fitch/GSP...he would then be the champion of two weight divisions at the same time...ala Dan Henderson in PRIDE. I would like to see Penn fight the winner of Huerta/Florian first, and if he won that fight...then relinquish the LW belt to move up and challenge GSP/Fitch. Until then...let's see how this story unfolds.

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GSP-Fitch is a consensus #1 vs. #2 WW fight. These types of fights are somewhat rare.

The UFC is setting up the #1 UFC contender at LW with Huerta-Florian. BJ should defend his belt against that #1 contender before they have him fight GSP-Fitch at WW. BJ has 2 fights in the last year. GSP will have 4 after he faces Fitch.

The UFC needs to utilize their champions better.

by Hardcharger on Jul 2, 2008 4:32 PM EDT 0 recs

I’ll be disappointed if Penn moves up to WW without ‘cleaning’ the LW division. The LW division was in limbo for so long and MIA for even longer so it makes no sense to me to have Penn go anywhere for a year or two.
Silva moving makes sense.
GSP moving if it makes it past Fitch makes sense.
Penn moving after defending the belt 2x makes no sense.

by pr0cs on Jul 2, 2008 5:40 PM EDT 0 recs

Penn’s only defended his belt 1 time, and really that was only a unification of the belt since Sherk never lost it in the octagon. Penn shouldn’t move yet, and I doubt Florian/Huerta and Alves/Kos/Diego want to have their title shot put on hold for upwards of a year just because BJ feels like fighting at WW now.

by Hardcharger on Jul 2, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree

Kelvin Hunt

I'm like those boyz on the sidelines...cause I ain't playing...

by Tha Realness on Jul 2, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

If GSP beats Fitch he’ll have defended his belt ONCE so if BJ going to 170 makes no sense, GSP moving to 185 makes no sense.

by goo on Jul 2, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

No kidding. At this point, Penn has defended his title once. St. Pierre has yet to defend his.

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by Richard on Jul 2, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

If St.Pierre beats Fitch then the majority of the “contenders” have already been beaten by him. But I’ll agree, until Penn or St.Pierre get into the same state as Silva it makes no sense for them to even contemplate moving.

by pr0cs on Jul 2, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, there’s no difference between the belts earned by BJ and GSP at their weight classes, unless you think the semantics behind either is really more important than what actually happenned in the octagon.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

St. Pierre held an interim belt. Penn held the actual LW title. It’s not “semantics,” but I suppose it isn’t terribly important to the argument being made.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s absolutely arbitrary on how “interim” vs. “actual” titles were determined.

I hope you’re not going to argue that Penn won the belt from the former champ, instead of winning an up-for-grabs belt which Sherk never lost.

GSP won 2 title belts by beating Hughes and Serra. Penn won 2 belts by beating Stevenson and Sherk. It doesn’t matter in what order each guy beat their opponents, unless you are a person who is interested in engaging in semantics or arbitrary decisions.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

When the subject is title defenses, it matters.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Feel free to explain the relevance or how BJ’s collecting 2 belts at LW is more relevant that GSP collecting 2 at WW. Both guys won two 5 round fights, with belts on the line, defeating the guy who previously had the belt. Only someone interested in semantics would attempt to claim that either is more signficant than the other (in terms of defenses or belts earned).

Difficulty of opponents defeated is open for debate.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Defending the title means something rather specific. Doesn’t it? It means that you go into a title fight already holding the belt and win. Penn has done it once at Lightweight. St. Pierre has yet to do it at Welterweight. I’m not trying to say one win is more meaningful than the other. I’m only saying that they’re different situations.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

That may be true, but GSP went into the Serra II fight with a belt as well, earned just as BJ earned his belt at UFC 80, due to circumstances outside the octagon (to Serra and Sherk) which necessitated the creation of a new champ.

So no, the situations aren’t different, unless you’re a person interested in arguing semantics. The only reason this argument arises is when the discussion of moving up a weight class comes up. Neither BJ nor GSP should be thinking about moving up, but BJ is the only one who is talking about it.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

That was an interim title. I guess if you want to count that…

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

The whole discussion arose because of who “has defended his title” and who “hasn’t defended his title”.

Both guys accomplished the same thing in their last 2 wins, collected 2 belts and answered the critics.

Neither guy should move up yet, even though both are great.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Both are definitely great. Penn only collected one title, though. His fight with Stevenson was for the actual UFC Lightweight belt, not an interim title like the one St. Pierre won against Hughes.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Although, ultimately I think we agree. Neither should be moving up.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, that’s no revelation.

However, GSP has stated numerous times that he has no intentions to move to 185 anytime soon, and plans on cleaning out WW. That’s a stark contrast to what BJ’s stance has been on defending his title at LW, and GSP has cleaned out WW far more than BJ has done at LW

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'm all for fighters moving between weight classes

I think it makes the sport more interesting and leads to more interesting fights. Plus, if a fighter can compete at a heavier weight while still making the cut to lightweight, who are we to limit his options? I’d like to see BJ become the first man to hold championships in three weight classes simultaneously. Now wouldn’t that be something?

by thetakeover on Jul 2, 2008 11:28 PM EDT 0 recs

Actually

Having your champion moving up and down between weight classes does way more harm than good IMO.

Kelvin Hunt

I'm like those boyz on the sidelines...cause I ain't playing...

by Tha Realness on Jul 3, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree

To me, it says less about, “look how good this jackass is”, and more about, “look how weak our other divisions are.”.

by mythbuster on Jul 3, 2008 8:47 AM EDT up 0 recs

BJ ain't that good

BJ needs to prove himself against Florian or Huerta in my book. Who has he beat—

Sherk? so what, GSP and Hughes destroyed that dude. Besides, it was a strategic mistake for Sherk to stand with BJ—his arms are about 9” long…how did he expect to hit BJ…it was like watching a clown show with Sherk constantly swinging at the air.

Joe Stevenson? Joke! Jens Pulver? So did Faber…and lots of other dudes.

Okay, so BJ beat Hughes once. He also lost to Pulver once.

BJ has some gifts, and he’s started to use them in the recent past, but I say he has to prove himself with a solid title defense first. Then maybe he’ll be worthy of moving back up to WW. Right now, folks are just drinking his cool-aid.

by DarceYou on Jul 3, 2008 1:00 AM EDT 0 recs

I totally understand folks wanting BJ to stay at Lightweight rather than moving back up to Welterweight. If you want to argue that he is better suited for the lower weight class, hey, I’m all for that.

If you don’t like BJ Penn’s attitude or his fighting style, sure, go ahead.

Here’s what you can’t actually do: Discount BJ’s victories by and large.

How exactly does BJ need to prove himself against guys whose biggest career victories are over Clay Guida and Din Thomas, respectively? BJ defeated Din Thomas in his second professional fight, Caol Uno, in eleven seconds, in his third, the went on to defeat Matt Serra, Takanori Gomi, Matt Hughes and Duane Ludwig before returning to the UFC.

Essentially, he beat a who’s who of fighters when he was a neophyte in the sport.

Now, if you want to crush BJ for losing to St. Pierre and Hughes upon his return, hey, go nuts. If you’re going to argue against him moving up, that’s a hell of a place to start. But to discount his achievements at lightweight with because he once lost to Jens Pulver and not just beat, but clobbered both Joe Stevenson, an easy top 20 lightweight, and Sean Sherk, an easy top 10 lightweight (who crushed Kenny Florian, who BJ apparently needs to beat to be worth a damn) and to utterly ignore what he has done in the division prior to winning the Lightweight title does less to prove that folks are drinking the BJ Penn kool-aid as it does to show that you are, in fact, drinking a lot of haterade.

by Brett Jones on Jul 3, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

BJ is certainly a force at LW, and would be a favorite to beat any LW on the planet.

That said, this division has a ton of young, talented fighters. BJ hasn’t fought many of them because he hasn’t been fighting at LW in the UFC that much recently. Fights from 2002 show how good he is, but don’t mean he couldn’t possibly be defeated in 2009 by some of these young guys who are always improving.

I’d pick Penn to beat any of them, but that doesn’t mean these younger fighters shouldn’t get a shot, nor does BJ’s resume from LW in 2002.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

No one said they shouldn’t get a shot. However, it’s not like BJ Penn’s needs to prove his standing as a fighter by facing Kenny Florian or Roger Huerta. If he died today, no one would say “well, we’ll never know if he was any good because he never gave KENFLO a shot.”

That’s ludicrous.

Have BJ face Florian, then Huerta, then Griffin. Then, what the hell, every other lightweight in the division. Yes. Every one of them. From Edgar to Bocek, Maynard to Wiman, Guida to Hill, and every person in between. The more BJ fights, the better as far as I’m concerned. Or have him fight St. Pierre again. It’s a great match that was extremely close the first time, and both fighters appear to be better than ever at this point.

I don’t care. As long as Penn is fighting, I will be happy.

by Brett Jones on Jul 3, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

What’s ludicrous is the strawman you’re presenting here. Nobody is trying to define BJ’s “legacy” or detract from it ; we’re discussing what makes sense for his next fight(s). BJ is already talking about going to WW to fight for the title, even though he’s 0-2 in his last 2 fights at 170, and has only 3 recent fights at 155 in the UFC, when that division is filled with good, young, talented fighters.

There’s far more reasons for him to stay at LW, prove he can dominate that weight (which he’ll be favored to do), than to try to jump right back to 170, ahead of guys who’ve earned that spot more than BJ, all because of what fans think he’s proven about his legacy from wins in 2002 (at LW).

Yes, BJ has beaten some very good fighters at LW. Most of those wins are a long time ago, and there’s a lot of new fighters at that weight who deserve a shot at BJ before BJ starts campaigning for a shot at 170, which he doesn’t yet deserve.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

"well, we’ll never know if he was any good because he never gave KENFLO a shot."

That’s hilarious.

I’m all for BJ moving up for a shot at GSP. What makes BJ so popular is that he always wants to fight the best.

by steak_knife on Jul 3, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Him and 8000 other fighters.

by mythbuster on Jul 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ha. Yeah, what makes BJ so popular is that he often beats the best, not that he wants to fight them.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

And yet, Penn is 0-2 in his last foray into the WW division, wheras a guy like Thiago Alves has just stopped Karo and Hughes and has Diego next, and has proven his wares recently at WW.

by Hardcharger on Jul 3, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s a bigger money fight. I don’t think anyone can honestly contend that he’s the most deserving fighter.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yep

Hardcharger just RNC’ed the correct.

Kelvin Hunt

I'm like those boyz on the sidelines...cause I ain't playing...

by Tha Realness on Jul 3, 2008 11:29 AM EDT 0 recs

I’d like to see Penn take on more LW guys, but he obviously has a desire to beat the best, and if he can only get really motivated to fight GSP, then more power to him.

by monkeyfightclub! on Jul 3, 2008 11:31 AM EDT 0 recs

Big Money

Penn vs GSP as a big money fight makes sense, but they should be done infrequently. BJ got his chance at WW. He failed, failed, failed. His devotees just won’t get that. He doesn’t DESERVE another fight at WW yet. Give the fight to guys who have been working up the ladder in that division the opportunity they deserve. Or, make BJ Penn fight one of them before you give him another chance at the title.

BJ has a lot of talent, but his record is not that outstanding. He beat Caol Uno. Huh…who cares…who is that guy anyway…some dude with big ears that NEVER beat anybody of substance.

He beat Hughes before Hughes was good. That’s a fact. Now that Hughes is over, he could do it again, but what does that prove.

He beat Gomi. Big whoopin’ deal. Nick Diaz beat him too (while he was high on pot), and Nick Diaz couldn’t make it in the UFC WW division. Hell, Marcus Aurelio beat Gomi once.

So what is your proof that Penn is a great fighter. I’ve seen none yet.

by DarceYou on Jul 3, 2008 5:33 PM EDT 0 recs

Um...

Wasn’t Hughes like 35-3 when he fought B.J. the first time? Hughes is Penn’s biggest win, but that can be said of the other four guys who have beat him, too. He’s 2-2 at 170 with wins over Hughes and Ludwig and losses to Hughes and St. Pierre. That’s not bad.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

BJ Penn is a big money draw, this is why he’s going to get the fight. Dana White has to keep the talent happy even if there are others more deserving.

by steak_knife on Jul 3, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

If by "failure" you mean, "became world champion"

BJ got his chance at WW. He failed, failed, failed.

Didn’t he beat Hughes, with the belt, and then leave the UFC due to a contract dispute? I hardly think that’s an epic fail. Yeah he came back and lost to Hughes at WW before dropping down to LW, but to say BJ failed at WW ignores that he is a former champion of that division.

by thetakeover on Jul 5, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up 0 recs

Good point

Good point on Hughes. 1 point for BJ’s greatness. What else?

by DarceYou on Jul 3, 2008 5:49 PM EDT 0 recs

The wins over Gomi, Serra and Uno were all pretty big at the time. Also, his recent demolitions of Joe Stevenson and Sean Sherk were rather impressive.

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by Richard on Jul 3, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Didn't I

already defeat the argument that Gomi and Uno mean anything? Serra…is he great? Lucky punch to GSP…not hall of fame stuff, so how does that help make Penn great? Stevenson is average at best.

Sherk…hmm….he’s borderline between 1st and 2nd class fighter, so maybe, but I think that Sherk lost the fight for himself. His arms are 9” long tops and he wanted to strike with BJ? Bad strategy, but I can see where you’re coming from.

Okay, so Penn has 1.5 points toward greatness. Startin’ to get the picture that he’s part marketing hype?

Actually, the best thing I’ve heard about Penn is that he almost defeated Machida…actually Fightmetric puts the bout at a draw http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Penn-Machida.html. But maybe that impresses me most ‘cause I hate Machida and will worship anyone who beats him.

by DarceYou on Jul 3, 2008 6:20 PM EDT 0 recs

Have you watched any BJ Penn fights?

The man is a human highlight reel. It’s not just the opponents (of which BJ has beaten some of the best, including Gomi, Hughes, Sherk, and Pulver—former champions all) but the level of skill displayed. I’m much more impressed with a three-round fight that displays innovative maneuvers, as BJ is wont to do, than with a lucky one-punch knockout.

by thetakeover on Jul 5, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up 0 recs