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Does Mixed Martial Arts Need Instant Replay?

After suffering through some awfully dubious refereeing decisions the last few weeks, I began to ponder whether use of instant replay could be beneficial to the fighters, the sport and ultimately, the fight itself.

I realize there are a host of problems with having instant replay, so I want to propose the idea of perhaps using instant replay only to overturn, challenge or confirm those decisions by the referee not specifically related to the outcome. That is, if we begin to let fighters, coaches and managers challenge a fight every time it's stopped, our sport will devolve into a overly litigious mess.I realize there is some hypocrisy involved in suggesting instant replay could be used for challenging point deductions and not poor stoppages, but for purposes of pragmatism, it's worth defining some limits even if they are arbitrary.

The benefits of instant replay are widely documented and clear. Most notably, a poor decision by the referee to deduct points for fouls that were never committed or an actual error of the referee in, say, standing fighters up when they shouldn't be (that is, if the fighters are supposed to resume action on the ground and for no apparent reason the referee doesn't enforce it), instant replay could serve as a valuable tool in this regard. While video evidence itself is never fool proof, I do believe the replay of Marquardt's elbow to Leites' head clearly shows no foul was committed. And because the call was poor, it actually affected the outcome of the bout. It was not the sole determinant, but it was absolutely contributory.

The problems with using instant replay, of course, are numerous. One shudders to think of how many problems could arise if Pandora's Box were opened in MMA. For example, how would one actually go about challenging a call? In games where this is constant stop and start to the action such as football, use if instant replay makes a little more sense. You can question decisions or calls without actually ever interrupting active play. But MMA fighting is dramatically different. In our sport, continuity of action is highly coveted. Resting give opposition unfair advantages both to recover from physical exhaustion and inflicted damage. Worse, if a coach or corner were allowed to throw a flag (and how many flags can they throw a fight?), could do they do it at the most opportune time to save their fighter? In other words, they wouldn't really be challenging a call, just throwing a flag to affect an outcome when their fighter was in a bad spot or taking damage.

Then again, maybe there are ways to do it. Maybe if we limit the use of instant replay solely to point deduction clarification, a corner could challenge a ref's call directly after the referee makes such a call. The action is already stopped at that point, although even this is enough to stop a dishonest corner from affecting the length of the break. Maybe if the round comes to a close, a corner could have the option of challenging during the break. In this way, the break could be extended somewhat, but it wouldn't necessarily affect the fight in such a way to give a struggling opponent too much of an advantage due to the pseudo time out.

But then again maybe it would. I want to make it clear that I'm not necessarily favoring the use of instant replay. I find the idea compelling, but it's obviously a troublesome suggestion. Ultimately, I think MMA fans and fighters alike are going to have to condition themselves to swallow a higher portion of referee error when there is such an emphasis and premium on continuity. I don't know that we can have our cake of objective refereeing and eat it, too. So long as a fight necessitates as few breaks in the action as possible, error on the part of the referee will be far harder to check during the course of the bout. It's easy to suggest that this in and of itself is reason enough to stop any notion of instant replay marching forward, but what is Nate Marquardt going to do? There is no governing athletic body for him to address his grievances in the UK. Saying Dana White or internal UFC management will take care of it is essentially relying on the beneficient monarchy to do the right thing. In his case, instant replay could have prevented him from losing.

It's a complicated issue, but it's worth fleshing out. The bottom line is this: referees need to be as perfect as possible and when they're not, fighters should have recourse. How we actually deliver on that, though, makes defining parameters incredibly difficult.

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments

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I have never thought about this, so my thinkings right now are still raw.

But I think its a pretty bad idea, all in all. I imagine the better idea is to get qualified refs. Sometimes accidents happen, that sucks, but it happens in every sport.

The only way I could see this being at all feasible is if there was a huge incentive NOT to challenge a call. Kind of like the NFL, MMA bouts could have a stipulation that the corner can challenge once a fight, and if the call goes against the fighter than the fighter loses his entire purse. This will make sure that the corner only calls for instant replay when 1) The outcome of the fight is at stake, and 2) They are damn sure they have a case. and also ensures it won’t be abused to give their fighter a small time out.

by mythbuster on Jun 9, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As long as the UFC treats Marquart as a winner as well….

Example:
Marquardt vs. Bisping
Leites vs. Winner of Cote / Almeida

I’m happy.

by Nick Thomas on Jun 9, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Give him back the point for the elbow, take one away for spiking his head close to the end of the third. There – the balance is preserved.

by zeroword on Jun 9, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To be fair Nate should have had 2 points taken away from him....

Not for the elbows to the back (side) of the head but for the piledriver at the end of the fight. Spiking someone on their head, which can badly injure your neck and spine, is an illegal move in the UFC which should have been punished with a point deduction.

So whether or not the correct call was made in taking a second point away if we are looking at the fight overall based on what decisons Herb Dean SHOULD have made then Nate loses 2 points at best and at worst should have been disqualified.

by mcicp19 on Jun 9, 2008 11:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I think it is vital for the growth of the sport, for refs and judges to get the calls correct.

"They said you was hung!!"

"And they was RIGHT!"

by BJJDenver on Jun 9, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Marquardt has taken a big step forward

in his career. Before he was known as a quiet but very skilled and well-rounded MMA fighter training with Greg Jackson who was just another top middleweight clowned by Anderson Silva.
Now he’s Nasty Nate the guy who doesn’t let the rulebook get between him and putting a beat down on your ass.

by Kid Nate on Jun 9, 2008 12:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does that mean Squirrel Master can still put him in his place?

Also, I feel that Instant Replay would be difficult to implement and regulate in a sport like MMA. I think emotions about refereeing in general are running high right now, considering the past two weeks. With these issues fresh on our minds, it’s easy to look for a corrective measure to ensure that a fight is scored/stopped/refereed fairly 100% of the time. However, I feel that when we all take a moment to consider the job done by the referees as a whole, it’s clear that they get it right most of the time, the vast majority of the time, even. Yes, it is unfortunate that questionable/poor officiating was to blame for the outcomes of some high profile matches, but that happens in every sport, regardless of whether or not instant replay is available to the officials.

I’m curious what happens when a fight is paused due to an illegal strike, and during the recovery period, the referee reviews the strike and determines it was, in fact, legal. Does the fighter who received the strike, and for the sake of argument is not completely recovered, forced directly back into action? It seems to me that could lead to a less safe environment for fighters. What if the strike was illegal but the referee has a bad viewing angle and determines the blow was legal, but the fighter cannot continue or, worse yet, continues and becomes injured? These, and I’m sure many more, scenarios must be considered.

All of that being said, if there is an intuitive way to effectively implement instant replay in MMA without interrupting the pacing of matches/events, then I’m absolutely willing to accept it as part of the sport. I am a big proponent of instant replay in the NFL, and while it’s difficult to directly compare the two sports, it would be hypocritical to absolutely want it included in one sport and excluded in another. Fortunately, as a fan, I have the luxury of sitting back while athletic commissioners and promoters have to determine how to implement something like this (if they so choose) while I critique their decisions.

by Brett Jones on Jun 9, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes there should be instant replay. The benifits outweigh any downside. That being said Nate really is a dirty fighter. There is no way he tried to ‘powerbomb” Thales. He never even tried to rotate the hips. Once he lined his head up with the mat he drive him headfirst into the floor. It’s even more obvious in the replay.

by Tommy7 on Jun 9, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Piledriver

My question is: Will the UFC use the illegal piledriver in future fight promoting clips of Nate, the way they used head stomps to promote the Ax Murderer even though that move isn’t legal in the UFC but was in Pride, where they were performed? I think it could set a bad precedent, though I also think the UFC would be hardpressed not to use the eye-catching clips (think of Rampage’s huge powerbomb knockout and you’ll see how such a clip can help put a fighter “over the top” in fan recognition).

As for instant replay, I think it’s a bad idea. If used at all, it should only be between rounds to add or deduct a penalty point from judges’ scorecards. We cannot allow anyone but the ref to stop the action in the Octagon, or it will create a level of interference and gamesmanship that will detract from the sport. That said, I think Dana should penalize Nate and deduct a percentage of his purse for this illegal and dangerous move.

by thetakeover on Jun 9, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok wait a min

Why are you showing the knee which doesnt need an instand replay but not showing the elbow which really did?

by MrNiceGuyMMA on Jun 9, 2008 1:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Probably because, at a different angle, it is very clear to see that Thales lifted his knee up, but then immediately went back down. Unfortunately, Nate had already begun his strike and wasn’t watching what Leites did.

"They said you was hung!!"

"And they was RIGHT!"

by BJJDenver on Jun 9, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

because I couldn’t find a gif of the “illegal” elbow.

by Kid Nate on Jun 9, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol I’m sorry but when Marquardt did the piledriver I found it hilarious… hilariously tragic…

by SamCupitt on Jun 9, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

YES IT DOES!!

And so does boxing. Anytime you are deducting points, you need to get the call right.

Now, you don’t stop the fight and do the replay, it is done after the fight and whomever is in charge of it, needs to have the replays set and ready to go. There can’t be a huge delay in rendering the decision.

So, it goes like this…

Nate drops the elbow, Herb stops the action, gives Leites time and announces the point deduction, same as usual. So at this point, Nate knows he very well may have lost the point and must change his attack to reflect that disadvantage. Leites, being the one hit, knows there is a chance that it may get overturned, so he adjusts his attack as well. After the fight, Herb immediately goes to ringside, views the video and makes his final determination, let’s say, to reinstate the point, the judges make the changes accordingly and the decision is given.

"They said you was hung!!"

"And they was RIGHT!"

by BJJDenver on Jun 9, 2008 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And we need to see a rematch asap!

"They said you was hung!!"

"And they was RIGHT!"

by BJJDenver on Jun 9, 2008 2:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If instant replay were to be implemented in mma I would like to see it used only in situations that points are being deducted for illegal strikes. The fight has already been stopped, which limits disruption the the flow of the bout. An automatic review would prevent controversy, and make for better officiating.

I think we will always see controversial officiating. Action in the ring happens so quickly, and it is unreasonable to expect officials to react perfectly 100% of the time. Unfortunately, questionable decisions will likely continue to be part of the game

by Andy R on Jun 9, 2008 7:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nates face as he lifted him up for the “piledriver” was classic.

by MrNiceGuyMMA on Jun 9, 2008 10:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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