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Forrest Griffin Won't Fight Lyoto Machida

Dave Meltzer reported in the print edition of The Wrestling Observer that the UFC is having a very hard time finding opponents for Lyoto Machida.  Brandon Vera turned down a fight with him, and even Forrest Griffin has made it clear he has no desire to fight him:

The winner of Saturday night's clash is likely to face Brazilian hotshot Lyoto Machida next.  And Griffin is wary of the threat The Dragon poses.  He admitted:  "I want nothing to do with that guy.  Not at all."

It's not going to be easy to book Machida's fights going forward.  The top guys have very little to gain by fighting him.  If they lose a boring fight, it's terrible for their reputation and drawing power, and if they beat him, the win doesn't really do much besides boost their credibility among hardcore MMA fans.  Even Quinton Jackson has given some signals of late that he is not interested in this fight.  The other day he made it clear that he only wants to fight guys that come in and fight, not guys who run away.  

Pleasing fans isn't the only obstacle for Machida now.  The next one is going to be convincing fighters that there is any upside at all in fighting him, because you need two signatures to finalize a fight contract.

 

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Do these guys have a choice? Unless they have an injury, they should really not be deciding who they should fight or not. I can appreciate Machida’s elusive style. He doesn’t run away from you, he just picks and chooses his spots and they look very impressive. But at the same time his style frustrating, at times, to watch. UFC officials might have to ask this dude to open his game up some more, because if he becomes champion it’s going to be hard to sell his fights. If he does become champ, they are going to have to have an additional title fight for a main event, just so the pay-per-view won’t suffer. They did that when Sean Sherk was the champ.

by The Bronzeville Bully on Jun 29, 2008 10:11 PM EDT   0 recs

I totally agree. They shouldn’t get to pick and choose who they fight. They say they don’t want to fight him, cause they have nothing to gain, I say they don’t want to fight him, cause they know they can’t beat him. How does Forrest all of a sudden have all of this cred anyways? Hector Ramirez took him the distance(which is pathetic)Tito beat him and Jardine smashed him. I was at UFC 76. Shogun had a blown out knee and was flabby as hell. That’s his only win over a top 10 opponent. His last exciting fight was Bonnar part one. I like the guy, but don’t think it should be him facing Rampage this weekend. It should be Machida. He’s easily beaten 2 top 10 light heavyweights in his last 2 fights.Machida fights to win, and did open up alot more against Ortiz.

by Josh H. on Jun 29, 2008 10:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If they don’t get to decide who they fight, who should? Dana? You? Of course fighters have a big vote in who they fight. The lower end fighters can’t really make any demands because they don’t have the leverage, and they’ll take whatever they can get, but why in the hell would Chuck Liddell risk his career to fight Lyoto Machida?

by Michael Rome on Jun 29, 2008 11:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, for Quinton Jackson, it’s Dana White. You don’t get to pick who the #1 contender is.

by cyph on Jun 29, 2008 11:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

White or Silva?

by Simco on Jun 29, 2008 11:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What’s the difference?

by cyph on Jun 30, 2008 12:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait. When did Sokoudjou and Machida become Top 10?

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 12:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Soko burst into the top 10 when he got back to back wins over Arona and Lil Nog, even as high as top 5 I think. Machida on the other hand was a lock at top 2 or 3, depends on which site you look at, and he has submitted Soko just after Soko’s consecutive KO’s over at Pride.

by Johann on Jun 30, 2008 2:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I meant to say Soko and Tito. Machida is obviously top ten.

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 4:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

aah.. don’t ‘bout Tito, maybe back in the 90’s? lol..

by Johann on Jun 30, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right. I remember him being considered top 10, it just wasn’t within the last few years is all.

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 4:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

While I think Machida could be more aggressive at times, how do you ask a guy, whose style has been extremely successful, to change what he’s doing for the sake of entertainment value? Isn’t that like asking an undefeated, running oriented football team to throw the ball more, because they’re boring to watch? Keeping viewers entertained is obviously important. I honestly don’t know where you draw the line between sport and pure entertainment. Machida’s not doing anything illegal unless they start deducting points for not engaging. In my opinion, he’s not running. He just employs a less aggressive strategy than typical fighters. I also don’t know how other fighters can refuse to fight him. Machida’s like a marketing black hole.

by Cannon J on Jun 29, 2008 10:44 PM EDT   0 recs

I agree with you why asking Machida to change his style, but MMA, at this stage, is still far from mainstream acceptance. Not everyone appreciates a good ground game. Not everyone finds jiu jitsu and wrestling appealing. I mean, how often do you see a high school crowd pack a wrestling even. With UFC and the sport of MMA still in it’s infacy, you kind of got to ask Machida to open up his game some more. They did that with TIm Sylvia. Machida possibly can become champion and the champ is going depended on to draw gates and pay-per view. Until, it gets to a point where it is accepted as a sport and everyone understands it and appreciates different aspects of fighting, UFC will pretty much have to take a hard stance against fighters who style is considered, well, boring. Why do you think one reason Matt Lindland is not in UFC. Why do you think the UFC let Tim Sylva walk out of his contract?

by The Bronzeville Bully on Jun 29, 2008 11:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You’re right Bully—this sport HAS to be entertaining in order to succeed. I was at Strikeforce in San Jose last Friday and it was brutul how un-entertaining Bobby Southwerth is. It was the 2nd time I’ve seen him boo’d out of the cage, and he’s the champ.

I don’t think Machida is anywhere at that level, nor the level of the ex-UFCers that you mentioned—I was entertained by his fight over Ortiz because I hadn’t seen a style like that before. But once the novelty wears off, that style could get boring to watch really quickly.

by steak_knife on Jun 30, 2008 12:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Machida fought an intelligent fight against Tito and picked him apart. I think it’s ridiculous that some people insist he was running from him. That’s just absurd and I don’t think it has anything to do with why some guys don’t want to fight him. I’d love to see the look on Forrest’s face when he said that. I am inclined to believe it was a compliment from one of the more sarcastic fighters in the UFC today..

by Blackout612 on Jun 29, 2008 10:45 PM EDT   0 recs

They do, of course, have a choice. We saw it with Tito ducking Chuck years ago. Both fighters need to sign a contract. It’s usually a non-issue because everyone is willing to fight everyone, but there’s a reason it took a significant raise to get Dan to move to 185 and fight Anderson Silva. They can’t just force guys to take fights.

by Michael Rome on Jun 29, 2008 10:48 PM EDT   0 recs

There are fighters, however, that don’t have the luxury of turning down fights because they are not really in a position to make demands. Jardine vs Machida? Wouldn’t be surprised..

by Blackout612 on Jun 29, 2008 11:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

to borrow a phrase from jim ross… this match up might tend to have bowling shoe tendencies…..ie ugly…. can we book the winner against rashad in a sort of UFC Apathy Grand Prix?

by robnashville on Jun 29, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but who is Jim Ross?

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 12:59 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

long time commentator with the WWE

by Tonley on Jun 30, 2008 1:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jardine’s a big man who likes to throw those soup-bones. How could you not think that’d be a slobber-knocker?

by asa on Jun 30, 2008 1:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right, certain fighters are in a better position than others to turn down fights. Liddell, Forrest, Wanderlei Silva, and Quinton Jackson are all in that good position. ANyone else pretty much has to take whatever fight. My guess is that Wand would do it either way cause it seems like he just doesn’t give a shit.

by Michael Rome on Jun 29, 2008 11:29 PM EDT   0 recs

If this scenario continues to play out in this manner, you may have Machida cleaning out the LHW division except for the top 5 or so big name guys who won’t fight him. That’s something to look forward to. I guess he’ll be the guy who’s put in to embarrass the fighters that Dana is about to cut loose. I can see from a marketing perspective why you would much rather Rampage be the champion than Machida, but what are you going to do with the dude?

by Cannon J on Jun 29, 2008 11:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Um...

You don’t see Machida shying away from anybody. God forbid he has a style that is largely outside of the box from what we see in the UFC. I think presenting him to mainstream fans is a method of increasing awareness about different martial arts that should and do make up “mixed martial arts.” We shouldn’t limit fight combinations because fighters feel wary of matching up against such a formidable style.

by KneeToTheFace on Jun 29, 2008 11:40 PM EDT   0 recs

It’s not really us that are limiting them, its fighters that don’t want to fight him. One way around it would be offering to pay them even more to take the fight, but it’s a hard tactic to justify when Machida is yet to draw anything.

by Michael Rome on Jun 29, 2008 11:46 PM EDT   0 recs

If Machida was a colorful character, like Tito Ortiz, maybe he would appeal to the mainstream audience. I mean did anybody think Tito Ortiz was an exciting fighter?

by The Bronzeville Bully on Jun 29, 2008 11:53 PM EDT   0 recs

I think every fighter has a story to tell and the UFC could do a better job of promoting some of the less outspoken (or non-english speaking) fighters that are big-time talents. I’m sure that even casual fans are somewhat interested in him at this point (Tito is a beacon for casual fandom and he got dominated by Lyoto), even if it’s a mild curiosity. I think the UFC will wisen up sometime soon, especially with their newfound international perspective. Guys like Anderson Silva, Minotauro and Machida are excellent talents that need their story told for them, to a point. It could truly pay dividends from a marketing stand point..

by Blackout612 on Jun 30, 2008 12:01 AM EDT   0 recs

This may be the best comment of the article.

by Mike Fagan on Jun 30, 2008 2:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you have to agree with the huddled masses on this one, Machida’s style is boring to even the casual eye. Having him as a champ, fighting the style he is currently sporting, would destroy the fanbase the UFC has grown for the LHW. How do you deal with this problem, I haven’t got a clue? You can’t let him continue the way he’s going and unless you start giving out yellow cards…...good luck to Dana and LZ3 (is that the right one), they need it. Does anyone else have any ideas about it?

by dugmouth on Jun 30, 2008 12:13 AM EDT   0 recs

Patriots and Spurs...rolled into one.

Machida is like the boring, 3-time Superbowl winning New England Patriots and the boring, 4-time NBA Championship San Antonio Spurs.

All of these folks are very effective in playing and winning at their respecttive sports, but they lack the glitz to win over the fans.

by dohfil on Jun 30, 2008 12:22 AM EDT   0 recs

The Patriots weren’t boring.

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 1:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

With all these football comparison’s, Machida’s style kind of reminds me of Peyton Manning. It’s second and 1, the Colts are lined up to run the ball. Defense is stacked to stop the run. Peyton Manning sees it, calls a different play, at the line of scrimmage, which is a pass play.

When Joey Porter played Steelers, he complained a week before the divisional series against Colts, that the Colts don’t like to run a play when they call it in the huddle. They like to catch you off guard and trick you. Porter was always frustrated with that and would rather just call a play and run it at them. That is how opponents, who face Machida, feel when they fight him. They would rather him fight you, than just try and them off guard.

by The Bronzeville Bully on Jun 30, 2008 1:11 AM EDT   0 recs

Maybe it’s because I’m not a casual observer of the sport, but I don’t see Machida as boring. Is it most casual fans feeling that guys are boring unless they throw errant bombs until they gas? I have no desire to watch fights like that..

by Blackout612 on Jun 30, 2008 2:03 AM EDT   0 recs

Why do Machida fans insist the only alternative to his style is to watch 2 drunks in a bar swing beer bottles at each other?

I’m no Machida hater, but the debate gets ridiculous. People like to see fighters engage each other, they want constant action.

by Michael Rome on Jun 30, 2008 2:10 AM EDT   0 recs

I enjoy Machida’s fights, but part of his appeal is that he’s different and I’m not sure how fun it would be to watch if everyone fought with his style.

by Richard on Jun 30, 2008 2:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe because they’d like to insinuate that those who does not appreciate his style of fighting just does not see the beauty of the technical acumen that he presents.. that they’re only entertained by brawls and sloppy fights and not technical fights.. Yes, its a sweeping statement, but its just the same as labeling Machida as just boring..

by Johann on Jun 30, 2008 4:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Save for the fact that I clearly said nothing of the sort.

by Blackout612 on Jun 30, 2008 2:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, you’re right. Save for the fact that I did not allude to you or your comment when I posted that reply. It was merely my thoughts on Rome’s question. That the current discussions in the Machida debate becomes ridiculous when debaters would resort to ad hominem in their arguments. It does not have to go to “Machida fans are elitist” or “Those haters are just so dumb to realize the beauty of his fighting style” when having this debate. Not everyone who enjoys watching his fights are tuning in to see his technical skills, some just like seeing an alternative style of fighting or tuning in just to see him get beat. And conversely, not everyone who thinks he’s boring has the intellectual capacity of a mold.

by Johann on Jun 30, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well.. He replied to me and you replied to that. Doesn’t really matter.. However, while I am not the world’s biggest Machida fan, necessarily, I will always be excited to watch him fight because he’s cerebral and technical in his approach. He struck Tito countless times. Are we to believe that his avoidance of being struck is a negative or unattractive characteristic of his approach? That’s so absurd, it’s practically surreal. The inference that a guy should get hit to please the bone-headed sensibilities of casual observers who may not have any idea what they’re watching. Besides, he was clearly more cautious with Tito than he has been in the best with guys like Soku (though, he did not run). So what? I don’t hear anyone describing Arlovski as a runner because of how he approached his last two Sylvia fights. But that’s because he lost. Machida wins a smart fight (and was clearly more aggressive than Arlovski in those two losses) and suddenly he’s a coward and a bore to watch? There was nothing boring about that fight. It didn’t make me jump up and flip a coffee table like a Torres fight, but I’m not about to suggest that a guy needs to be more erratic to please the masses when he’s doing a great job at gameplanning and executing on it. In my assessment, he’s simply considered in a different light because he’s not the most exciting personality in the world. If I’m looking for a mixed martial artist to write a sitcom pilot for, I’ll call Shonie Carter. If I want a guy to emabarrass someone in the UFC, I’ll call Machida (or his translator).

by Blackout612 on Jun 30, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

About the replies.. I didn’t immediately thought that he replied to your comment since there’s supposed to be an indent in between your comment and his.. Anyways, I’m with you on your take on Machida though.. I like watching him fight just to see him frustrate his opponent or just to see him get beat for the first time.. And about your question regarding most casual fans, I think they do appreciate slugfests, or should I say constant action, more than technical fights. Even Boxing’s most technical boxer and former number 1 P4P is perceived to be very much boring. Maybe if he’d leave his opponents bloodied and bruised up after after having struck them numerous times like what Pacquiao did to Diaz the other night, we won’t be having that debate.. technical fight + blood = Gold.

by Johann on Jul 1, 2008 5:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hate to burst your bubble, but I’m not necessarily a Machida fan. I’m starting to come around, but I’m not a cheerleader for him, to be sure. And who said anything about the only alternative? I asked if most casual fans are interested in slugfests. Way to twist my words..

by Blackout612 on Jun 30, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know this is somewhat unrelated but there seems to be a new Machida thread on Sherdog every hour. It could be some sort of implicit collective troll phenomenon but even if a third of this controversy is genuine I think it could be indicative of growing understanding of Lyoto’s style. If enough fans learn to appreciate or at least tolerate it, we could see more guys wanting to fight Machida.

by Flying Gogoplata on Jun 30, 2008 4:31 AM EDT   0 recs

Lyoto Machida

I think Lyot Machida will become more popular due to his unorthodox style. I saw the Tito Ortiz match with a group of friends. Most who had never seen an MMA fight before. When the show was over – everyone wanted to know more about Machida. The Karate card helped.

For the best sites for New Poker Players visit www.pokersitesreview.eu

by inspireduk on Jun 30, 2008 7:52 AM EDT   0 recs

Guys ducking someone that’s undefeated is pussy if you ask me. If you are as good as you say you are…you’ll find a way to beat Machida….point blank period.

by Tha Realness on Jun 30, 2008 8:44 AM EDT   0 recs

Pretty classless to call top 205 lb fighters pussys.

BTW, Forrest Griffin has never said how good he is. In fact, he’s said just the opposite. He’s extremely self depricating.

What I’ve heard are that top guys aren’t interested in fighting Machida because they think, rightfully, that Machida is painfully boring. Beating Machida in a boring fight does nothing for their perception to the masses. Big difference.

by Hardcharger on Jun 30, 2008 9:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn’t mention Griffin’s name…I said GUY’S ducking Machida…and like I said…if you are trying to lay claim to the best 205’er in the world…you should not duck anyone…boring or not boring.

by Tha Realness on Jun 30, 2008 10:16 AM EDT   0 recs

I can’t get to the linked article through my work filters, but is it really accurate to characterize Griffin’s comments here as even suggesting anything like wanting to “duck” Machida, as opposed to one of those really respectful “I don’t want anything to do with that guy” because he is a very difficult matchup and a very worthy opponent-type comments? Just curious, because Griffin has generally seemed to me like one of those guys who goes out of his way to talk about how tough others are and I could read the quoted statement in that vein pretty easily.

by Kierkegaard on Jun 30, 2008 11:06 AM EDT   0 recs

Good Point

The way it’s phrased…it could be another instance of Griffin trying to be sarcastic or something.

by Tha Realness on Jun 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT   0 recs

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