What Everyone Gets Wrong About Kim Couture
The lesson of Kim Couture's first professional MMA fight has nothing to do with her gender. Yet, even those who would protect the value and place of women's MMA and battle against double standards seem to think Couture's gametes are the crux of the matter. To wit:
It isn’t as if Kim Couture was matched up with someone out of her league. According to Sherdog, that was Kim Rose’s first pro fight, just as it was Couture’s. And it isn’t about the fact that she continued after being hurt, either.
Couture put forth a valiant effort even after being drilled early on. She even dished out some punishment of her own, despite Cofield’s characterization of the fight as egregiously one-sided. If she was unable to continue, she could have quit. She had a cornerman with plenty of experience in this business, so one has to assume that he knew what he was looking at.
It’s also not about how long the rounds lasted. If we grant that women can fight, there’s no sense in saying they can’t fight for as long as men can. Couture’s injury likely happened from the very first punch of the fight, so making the rounds two minutes shorter wouldn’t have made a significant difference.
If we take away all those red herrings, what we’re left with is an objection to seeing women engaged in violent pursuits. To some extent, I can understand that. As much as I believe that men and women are equals, it’s still more difficult for me to see a woman get hurt than a man. But you know something? That’s my problem, not theirs.
Now, I'm not picking on Ben. He makes a compelling argument here that needs to be addressed even if it misses the issue at hand.
The problem, ultimately, with the Kim Couture fight wasn't gender, it was competency. Unequivocally, I say Kim Couture is not even remotely ready for professional mixed martial arts competition. Period. Anyone who says otherwise needs to seriously reevaluate their ability to distinguish amateur from professional.
I cannot believe people who purport to watch MMA can honestly watch that fight without immediately recognizing the lack of technical skill Couture demonstrated. While her durability and drive are second to no one's, her ability to fight effectively is borderline ineffectual.
Yes, she landed a couple of takedowns. And yes, she was hurt in the opening moments of the bout yet managed to soldier through to the end. But that doesn't prove anything except that she has an unreal ability to absorb a world class thrashing and that she has the takedown ability of someone who has been training with world class wrestlers for less than a year.
Some have suggested this matter centers around double standards. That women are not being extended the same opportunity to fight as men. If we're talking about double standards, let's talk about double standards. How about the double standard that some in the MMA media have the audacity to attack Kimbo Slice for not having the technical acumen to compete as a professional yet we give Couture a pass because she takes a better punch? How about the standard that we expect men (except for those with accomplished athletic backgrounds in similar athletic endeavors to MMA) to work their way through a few successful amateur matches before turning pro, yet we let Couture take one smoker - not even an amateur rules match!!! - where she was handled before she's granted a professional license to compete in professional MMA matches. That's not only a double standard, that's downright dangerous. Licensing is granted to those professionals who have proven they are prepared to deal with the rigors of professional competition. That is ultimately a medical concern with serious implications and repercussions.
I don't want to resort to the often hackneyed argument of "people who train vs. people who don't", but I would like to draw upon my experience in training. I can say with complete confidence that while she did have a couple of decent takedowns, she didn't know how to pass guard either from half and especially not full guard; she didn't know how to properly use underhooks on the ground or shoulder pressure to keep opponents on the mat; she didn't demonstrate professional level ability to prevent her opponent from shrimping to guard; she didn't display professional level footwork on defensive blocking or defensive circling maneuvers; and she pushed her punches (there were zero combinations) and it wasn't hard to notice they had very little steam on them.
To say her opponent was as much as a neophyte on paper only reinforces the argument: her opponent didn't look too savvy on the ground either often laying on her back in side control without any attempt to use technique to amend the situation. If you can't continually pass guard of someone with that level of ability, there are some serious questions you better ask yourself. And on the feet, her opponent appeared much more capable in terms of punching power, combinations, evasion, movement and ring savvy.
Lastly, if the response is that Couture wasn't able to maximize her potential because she was hurt early and that set the tone, I sympathize. But that's all the more reason to stop the fight in that circumstance. Sometimes a fighter's toughness is their own worst enemy. But more importantly, we also can't say because she weathered the storm that therefore the storm wasn't in and of itself too much. Please. The beating Kuniyoshi Hironaka took at the hands of Thiago Alves wasn't a tenth of what Couture took and the referee - and the MMA blogosphere - didn't seem to have any issue with that stoppage - a stoppage that took place while Hironaka was perfectly conscious and on his feet. Apparently the referee's decision, implicitly sanctioned by the MMA blogosphere, was justified in that instance. If so, then when did the ceiling of acceptable punishment get raised? It seems to me it wasn't. What did appear to happen, however, is that the concern to not be sexist when females are involved in difficult situations has actually impaired judgment overall.
Kim Couture doesn't need a lesson from anyone on matters of heart. Kim Couture doesn't need a lesson from anyone on what it means to persevere. But in order to compete at the professional level, she does need a lesson in skills training and a lot more time to develop her skill set. The MMA fight game is evolving at a ferocious pace at both the amateur and professional level. Unless you are an incredibly gifted athlete, you need time to prepare for competition. Just as we ask every other competitor to work their way through before we grant access to the professional ranks, we must also ask the same of Kim Couture.
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16 comments
Comments
This is an excellent and, I think, necessary post. Well done.
by FRANKIE on Jun 26, 2008 8:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a great post that addresses the most serious aspect of MMA.
The safety of the combatants should be of paramount importance. Just because deaths and serious injuries in MMA are infrequent, doesn’t mean the possibilities should be ignored. On a human level, you don’t want to see someone seriously hurt, or worse. In a broader sense, something terrible happening to a fighter with the notoriety of Kim Couture could be devastating to the MMA industry. That’s not diminishing the health of lesser known competitors, it’s just a fact that people in the public eye generally have a bigger impact on the public.
I’m not saying that Kim Couture was in mortal danger, but I felt that, after watching the first round, she was injured enough for the fight to be stopped. If MMA wants mainstream acceptance, all involved parties have to forget about this sexism crap, and do all they can to protect the competitors – women and men. That starts with making matches between competitors of somewhat equal skill level.
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 26, 2008 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dana White repeatedly mentioned that “it’s a great time to be an MMA fan” in an ESPN interview. MMA is bigger and more popular than ever RIGHT NOW. I think a big part of that is due to the success of the EXC on CBS, and Gina Carano in particular.
I can’t help but think that Kim Couture has been influenced by the positive response that womens MMA has received as a result of the Carano/Youngs fight. AFL CEO BJ Santiago even announced that they are still interested in signing Kim, AFTER her performance.
Luke Thomas makes a great point—Kim Couture is not ready. Signing a good-looking female fighter could be the key to drawing outside interest to your sport, but it only works if your gal can fight.
Beyond that, and to the point of the post, promoters are facing UNLIMITED liability when you consider the repercussions of serious injuries sport-wide.
by steak_knife on Jun 26, 2008 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think people care that much about Carano. I honestly can’t remember anyone mentioning her the week after the event.
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2008 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost entirely agree with you, Luke – but if her jaw doesn’t get hammered, and she’s not Randy Couture’s wife, are we even talking about this? I mean, shitty fights by ‘professionals’ presumably go on all the time. This one is only getting attention for the reasons listed above.
by Jiiri on Jun 26, 2008 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could be.
But at least it’s shedding light on the issue.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 26, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparisons
While we’re making comparisons, why don’t we talk about fights that WERE stopped due to broken jaws, that were way less obvious and nasty than Couture’s? Or hell, ANY doctor stoppages where the participant had less serious injuries:
First, ANY fight stopped due to cuts
Fisher-Riley specifically was a broken jaw
Kongo-Aldana wasn’t due to a cut, I believe
His point about the 5 minute rounds is also off-base. The point is, professionals with many fights only had 3 minute rounds, but debut-pros have 5 minute? That doesn’t make any sense, and any future female fight in Nevada better be 5 minutes per round.
by galathrax on Jun 26, 2008 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget...
Carano-Young, that was stopped because Young had a bump on her cheek.
by mythbuster on Jun 26, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on every point, but I personally feel Kim Couture’s coaches deserve a good deal of blame in this situation. Xtreme Couture is full of experienced fighters and coaches who ought to have known better than to put Kim into a situation she wasn’t ready for. Kim’s trainers ought to be honest with her about her skill level in order to prevent one sided fights that result in serious injury.
I’m curious to know some other opinions. Do you agree or am I way off?
by Andy R on Jun 26, 2008 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you make an excellent point. Everyone involved in her decision to fight bear some level of responsibility. She may turn out to be a really good fighter, given time and training. There’s just no sense in her getting badly hurt at this juncture. Kim’s coaches should be able to best evaluate her skill level.
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 26, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kims
I’m not sure why Luke Thomas gets billing on this site but he obviously lives too much in his head theorizing nonsense. Kim Couture had every reason to be in this fight and her taking a fight ending shot in the first seconds and being able to effectively defend herself and even scoring points afterward proves it. She has a different fighting style than Kim Rose and Rose and was an awesome opponent. The fighters also bear the responsibility to keep fighting and any man who could have wanted continued and had the drive to do so we would have heralded as a hero for fighting through such adversity.
It was an incredible display by both women and I’m glad I watched. For this jack-off Luke to throw in references to Kimbo slice, “neophyte on paper” and amount of time training, is just couch potato bullshit and isn’t worthy of the heart and determination of both of these athletes who both deserve a shot.
by 3daddict on Jun 27, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I get billing on this site
Because unlike you, I actually make sense.
And I’m not couch potato, my friend. Never have been. Never will be.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 28, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fights get stopped for broken jaws
over and over again. You can’t allow a fighter to go back in and risk another punch to the jaw that could have tragic consequences. Also, you shouldn’t compound your poor reasoning by insulting your host on this forum.
by Kid Nate on Jun 28, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missing the point
I apologize for responding to this so late, but I’m on the road and just saw it today. Here’s my problem with the argument over Kim Couture’s technical expertise: it’s completely subjective. If you argue that she didn’t show the technical acumen of a pro fighter, that’s an opinion. Who’s to say whether a fighter is technically proficient enough to fight? Does Luke Thomas get to decide in every situation? I train too. Does that mean I get to decide?
My point is, all of this is informed by hindsight. We know now that her jaw was broken. We can go back and look at the video and criticize her technique, but it doesn’t help us make this distinction in the future. There’s no metric for determining whether someone can fight pro. Even if there were, it’s not as if you can’t still get your jaw broken in an amateur fight.
I agree that she went from smoker to pro pretty quickly, but she’s not the first. Plenty of guys have started their careers as pros. And it is significant that her opponent was also making her pro debut. That tells us that the problem wasn’t matchmaking. It’s not as if she was thrown to the wolves. Her opponent may have been better than her, but that happens. It’s the nature of the fight game.
But the point of my argument wasn’t that she should or shouldn’t be a pro fighter. The point was that if she had been a man, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. No one would claim to be disgusted by the fight. It would be a non-issue. Focusing on the distinction between pro and amateur is, I think, missing the point.
http://thefightinglife.com
by Ben Fowlkes on Jun 29, 2008 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If she had been a man, shouldn’t we be having the discussion, anyway? Granted, you’re probably right that the MMA public wouldn’t have paid the incident much attention had the competitors been male. Though determining her readiness for the fight would have been a subjective endeavor, the fact that her jaw was badly broken during the fight should have been easy for a doctor at ringside to ascertain. Some may say that a broken jaw isn’t a big deal. I think it is. That may not count for much, but as others have pointed out above, there are a number of examples where fights were stopped due to injuries of that nature.
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 29, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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