Fedor and Tim Sylvia to Fight for WAMMA Belt
by Luke Thomas on Jun 14, 2008 6:07 PM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintTalk about an exercise in futility:
Earlier this week, Sam Caplan of fiveouncesofpain.com reported that when Fedor Emelianenko and Tim Sylvia meet on July 19 in Anaheim, they would be fighting for a heavyweight title.
Today, Tom Atencio, the VP of Affliction Entertainment, tells MMARated.com that the title at stake will be the newly-formed WAMMA heavyweight crown.
WAMMA, which stands for World Alliance of Mixed Martial Arts, was established in November 2007. According to its website, "WAMMA is a multifaceted, fan and fighter-forward organization dedicated to promoting the integrity, legitimacy and longevity of Mixed Martial Arts."
Furthermore, some of its goals include, "certification and Recognition of Championship and Elimination Bouts" as well as "to promote and obtain efficiency and harmony in the control and supervision of professional men's and women's Mixed Martial Arts throughout the world."
I suppose there's no harm in it, but there's also little point to it as well. For starters, if Sylvia wins and ever expects to return to the UFC, he'll very likely be forced to vacate the title immediately since there's no chance that he'll be able to defend it even if his UFC opponent is the WAMMA number one contender. Second, that stripping will render the title a defacto "organizational" belt. In other words, the belt wouldn't really serve as a meta-belt among all belts, just another one among many correlated to an organization (or small group). Third, while the number of organizations and belts per organization does get a little out of hand, the bigger players need their own belts for prestige and legitimacy. When an organization on the come up only fights for the belt of a sanctioning body with very little presence or significance, that screams second rate. Lastly, Affliction, brand new as a MMA organization, is now also asking fans to take the further step of recognizing the legitimacy of a sanctioning body that has no other fingerprint in the sport. And given the enormous amount of new fans strictly adhering to the UFC playbook, this is likely going to cause them to ask, "If the WAMMA title is so great, why is no one in the UFC fighting for it?"
Good question, indeed.
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disagree completely
need time to formulate my thoughts, but at first blush I think its no less meaningless than an Affliction belt. And I doubt Sylvia will be returning to the UFC.
WAMMA will not Last
Affliction and Wamma will not last in the sport. The UFC controls the commissions already.
GO FOR THE NOKOUT NOT THE TAPOUT!
And let's not forget about Gary Shaw
He talks a big game about exchanging fighters, but you and I know it’s just a ploy. He’s gone on the record several times as saying Affliction is a competitor and they won’t last in this business. Does anyone really believe Shaw is going to sign on to WAMMA and render their own belts nullified or far less meaningful? Please.
In a world where promotions are competitors, over the long run it makes very little sense to try to unify them or their champions in this regard.
As long as the fight can go a maximum of 5 rounds I could care less what title they’re fighting for.
by Tonley on Jun 14, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
agreed…..the only belts that really mean anything to me in the ufc are the 205 and 170 belts…. the 155 and 185 belts sat on the shelf forever so to me they are just pieces of tin… in those two divisions it is the men who rule over those divisions (BJ, Anderson) who matter, not whether they are wearing some belt that has little to no history. the heavyweight belt has been walked off from, stripped due to steroids a few times, and been around for some of the weakest competition….to me it just doesn’t mean as much as the other two (170, 205)
by robnashville on Jun 14, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
...unless a title has existed for a long period of time with no sort of controversy whatsoever it doesn’t count? So you’re saying that aside from the 205 and 170 UFC championships there are no other meaningful titles in the world then right? What other organization has the history + legitimacy + top level talent of the UFC?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So…...unless a title has existed for a long period of time with no sort of controversy whatsoever it doesn’t count?
....... it counts, just much less so.
So you’re saying that aside from the 205 and 170 UFC championships there are no other meaningful titles in the world then right?
.....exactly,.....and it isn’t just a ufc thing…... the pride belts had all kinds of legitimacy problems….from the huge numbers of non-title matches, to champs losing in grand prixs, to freak show fights for the belt that should never have happened…..all these cheapen the whole thing…..pride’s 185 belt was a bit fishy…. they didn’t have the division for years, hendo won the belt, but lost in one of the grand prix’s and still was champ when he left the org….
What other organization has the history + legitimacy + top level talent of the UFC?
...but that’s just the problem…..the 185 and 155 UFC divisions lack history, and therefore lack long term legitimacy….. not saying that can’t be built over time…. but it is a bit questionable to me to automatically transfer any UFC goodwill over to these two divisions, just by virtue of the UFC deciding to start them back up when it was convenient….
by robnashville on Jun 14, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats fine...
I was just making sure that you weren’t going to say something like DREAM titles would count…or PRIDE as PRIDE’s titles had all the problems you mentioned.
I count the titles…but don’t fault you for not.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, I was joking about the weight of a UFC belt, compared to Wamma, but you made some very interesting points. I do agree, that to some extent, a belt that hasn’t been defended, loses a little bit of weight.
Two points:
1) I think every org should have champs, if for no other reason, than to have a clearer pecking order and target at the top of their divisions. For instance, EXC is doing a smart thing, by getting champions, it gives fans an idea of who the top dog is and who they should be viewing.
2) While I’m not a big fan of rankings, if you lined up a bunch of belt holders, most of us would have a pretty good idea of where they ranked, for instance:
1) Fedor—(Wamma, Affliction)
2) Nog-
3) Sylvia-(Adrenaline)
4) CC-
5) Nelson-(IFL)
6) Silva-
7) Overeem-(Strikeforce)
These are just for example of how things could look. So, what I think we are going to see, is that the best fighter may not hold the most prestigious belt, and while there are many interesting matches to be had, without UFC’s cooperation, it will lose a lot of credibility.
The funny thing is, I think Wamma could make an impact to some extent, if they could get their belt and information about them, on the EXCBS shows. If the huge potential of new fans start putting weight into their recognized orgs/fighters, it could put some pressure on UFC to cooperate in some fashion, though that is probably fantasy land thinking.
"They said you was hung!!"
"And they was RIGHT!"
Re:185
I would argue that the 185-lb piece of tin that has become synonymous with Anderson Silva is significant for just that reason. I think he is establishing a legacy as we speak for the 185-lb title. I think UFC’s middleweight division is actually deeper than the welterweight division. The belt lacks the same depth of history, yes. But I think i has more talent. The fact that Anderson has become a supreme being among men in that class only adds to the intrigue of the title. As long as he doesn’t vacate the belt, the idea of somebody else taking it would be monumental.
WAMMA is the first...
alphabet organization in MMA. They are the first WBC or IBF or WBA or NABO or IBO (etc…) in mixed martial arts. Organizations like the UFC or whatever don’t count as they control the company not just the “title.” Give it a couple years and we’ll start hearing about how fighters are being “stripped” of the belt because they didn’t pay “sanctioning fees” or didn’t fight a “mandatory challenger” that no one else in the world thinks is the #1 contender (and who likely got the position after his management did the organization a “favor).
Even the WAMMA mission statement sounds exactly like the mission statements found on the boxing alphabet commission websites. These are the kinds of grubby hands that need to be kept out of the MMA pie.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
Not to mention....
If they’re trying to crown a legitimate world champion how is Tim Sylvia in the title fight? Tim has lost 2 of his last 3 fights. I fail to see how they could say that this fight represents a #1 and #2 fighter squaring off for the title…and instead see it as a fight being given a title just for exposure sake.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So 2008 has brought us YAMMA and WAMMA. Please, God, no more goofy sounding acronyms with “MMA” in them.
SPAMMA!
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
World Fighting Organization (WFO)
I got one more acronym for you, the WFO. World Fighting Organization. This sanctioning body was created by the people who own the IBO (International Boxing Organization). This is the green belt in boxing, worn by Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Antonio Tarver and others. Several MMA organizations have shown interest in holding championship fights, recognizing this belt. Not the UFC, of course. The future of MMA will need independent sanctioning bodies to measure who are the true champions.
The IBO...
...is not one of the “major” boxing sanctioning bodies. It is a step above some of the smaller bodies…but isn’t quite the WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF.
I would argue very strongly against the “need” for independent sanctioning bodies. The structure of MMA just doesn’t work for these to be titles that are “competed for” but rather would just be “assigned.”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would also argue against such a need. The day MMA becomes boxing is the day I stop watching.
by Richard Wade on Jun 14, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I see this as more along the lines of what Ring magazine is doing, and it has slowly built into an announced recognition during the introductions, and I think they actually may be the best indicator for rankings, p4p, etc…
Of course, they may not necessarily have “title fights”, but I do think many fans put at least some weight into their opinion.
I could see Wamma working on a level similar to that, which is just basically to avoid or overcome the alphabet soup problems, but again, I think it would take at least some cooperation from the UFC.
"They said you was hung!!"
"And they was RIGHT!"
The UFC will keep them out the way they did Pride
February 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Ever wonder how the ufc kept pride out of california? Well when the rules were going through again in 2006 even though they were approved in 2000. Kirk Hendrix attorney for the ufc was at the meeting and so was I. The commission of california was saying that if we approved the boxing ring for pride it would hold up the process. We all commented and said we will wait because no one wanted the ufc to take full control of the sport in the state where it was originated. Kirk Hendrix kept on saying the octagon was for the safety of the fighter. He was using the same reasons I used in Las Vegas to get the Octagon I originated approved. I was for the octagon but I did not want the UFC to have control of the sport I wrote the rules for and of the octagon I originated. I spoke up and said that " Why do you allow the boxing ring for the Russian mixed martial art of Draka and the Japanese Art of San Shou which uses throws and take downs the same as MMA. After my speech they approved the boxing ring. Well Kirk Hendrix got a special meeting two weeks later which I also attended and there were all new commissioners. The old ones either quit or were replaced. The new commissioners shot it down. I then started to contact all the government officials and the boxing ring was finally approved. Well once the boxing ring was approved the ufc bought pride. I originated the octagon if you check out http://www.kagekombat.com you will see all the proof. Why can’t the ufc stop me from using the octagon or stop me from promoting the Octagon Contenders if I did not create the octagon.
http://www.cagetoday.com/fertittas-file-suit-against-former-pride-owners/
GO FOR THE NOKOUT NOT THE TAPOUT!
For a Preview of Fedor vs Tim go to www.fedorvstim.blogspot.com
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