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"EliteXC: Primetime" Recap & Thoughts Part 1

I hired a photographer for the event thinking that cage side, I could offer some really great picks. Unfortunately, they positioned my photographer too far away given the lens we brought, so the best pictures I can provide are all wide angle shots. I'll have them up by the end of the day.

But let's get to last night's event:

1.   EliteXC has a major problem, re: Kimbo Slice. Clearly Slice has vicious punching power, clean boxing and good athleticism, but that's about it. Watching him last night reminded me just how much better the UFC heavyweights actually were. Of course, everyone knows Slice isn't a top heavyweight, but it's hard to watch a MMA event when the main events have limited skill sets. Even Tim Sylvia's escape from the bottom of Nogueira - one that ended in a choke - was at least moderately textbook. Slice seemed to rely on powering out of bad positions, which further exacerbated his cardio problems. Gina Carano is still a powerful star for the budding promotion, but Slice may not be. He is in no position to fight anyone like Brett Rogers or Roy Nelson and the list of other contenders he can beat at this point will only solidify his status as a tomato can beater. This is the peril of putting on a developing MMA fighter as the main event attraction. The reputation Slice could earn may be unfair, but it's a reputation he'll earn nonetheless. Where he goes from here is unclear. And whether he ever achieves top 10 status is highly questionable given the wrestling and jiu-jitsu we saw on display.

2.    Yup, I overhyped Kaitlin Young. I thought she performed admirably and is clearly very tough, but Carano's Thai boxing pedigree was on display last night. I got it very wrong and there's nothing to do but recognize the fact and move forward. I still wish Carano would make weight.

3.    Before I forget, what happened to the poise of Kimbo Slice? Here was a guy who was known for being ice cold when the cage door shuts yet looked incredibly frustrated when things weren't going his way. Slice says he likes to beat up bullies, but he seems to be more of a bully than he realizes. That is, it's easy to pick on easy prey, but it's a different matter when other men can stand up to you. If you can weather Slice's early storm, that cold look and composure of his takes a hit. Maybe that will improve over time as he keeps learning in this sport, but I was very surprised by that.

4.    The undercard rocked. The main card bouts were what they were, but the undercard was fantastic. Stand out performances by Wilson Reis and Zach Makovsky were a pleasure to watch. Most importantly, while the main card was a designed effort on the part of Gary Shaw to feature strikers, the undercard was all about real mixed martial arts: wrestling, boxing, jiu-jitsu and everything in between. If you get an opportunity to see those fights, I highly recommend you do so.

5.    I hate mixed martial arts fan. Not all of them of course, but I can't even describe to you how much I loathe the functional retards who come to these shows. It's as bad at UFC events as it is at any other. I wish there were a way to offer free tickets to some of these people in exchange for castration (the women are generally not the problem).

6.   I met a lot of journalists and bloggers last night, so to those I shook hands with, hello and it was a pleasure to meet you.

7.   Even at the main event fight time there was virtually no one in the upper deck. I'm a little surprised Shaw couldn't sell 10k tickets or at least paper the event so as to fill the seats.

8.   The dancers and the rappers are hideous. Seriously, what is going on here? I realize even basketball has dancers, but they have no place in MMA. Neither fans care to see them nor do they add anything to the product except head scratching. I like that EliteXC makes the effort to put on a show and add performance art to the product, but this isn't the way to do it.

9. All hail Gus Johnson. I didn't get a chance to hear the broadcast yet, but from all accounts he performed splendidly.

10. If there was ever any doubt in your mind who does and understands MMA better, it's the UFC. Period. As I said to Kid Nate last night, the UFC makes mistakes, but they never seem as heavy handed in scripting outcomes as EliteXC did last night. I'm not talking about match fixing, I'm talking about stacking the deck in favor of one fighter. The UFC signs amazing talent, creates compelling match-ups and lets the chips fall where they may. And in that blind trust, a lot of greatness occurs. The UFC has favored fighters in the past, but overall, it hasn't felt as contrived as this. You can make a case Franklin was favored for a while vis a vis Lindland, but he's since been destroyed by Silva twice. Not even Chuck Liddell was spared a dramatic defeat in front of millions. I do love that about the UFC: win, lose or draw, you better earn your keep.

More to come.

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Strange ending...

...to the main event. I’m not anywhere near a huge fan, but knew of Kimbo Slice from YouTube and wanted to see him in a “sanctioned” bout. After seeing him begin to take some punishment from a guy everyone expected to flop early on, it sure looked strange when, in the third round, Slice started to get through his defense, the ref stopped the bout. This is MMA, isn’t it? Perhaps in regular boxing, it might have been normal. But in the Octagon, it usually gets to the point that the defenseless guy is down and just getting pummeled. That wasn’t the case here and something tells me that the promotors must have told the ref that as soon as it looks like Slice has the definitive upper hand, stop the fight to protect their “investment” for the future. I guess, just like boxing, we’ll still have to think that all these types of fights might be managed to the benefit of the promotors’ future plans. Hmmm…

Rexx

by Rexx on Jun 1, 2008 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

First off: “functional retards” – Hilarious. Bravo. It’s nice to hear someone else than me say it. You get these idiots at every type of sporting event, but considering the nature of MMA as a contact sport, these guys tend to be magnified x 100.

Secondly, you’re analysis of the UFC is spot on. The UFC does favor some fighters over others, it’s the nature of the game. Some guys are just more marketable than others. And yes, Dana is very petty at times but ultimately, they let the fighters do what they do: fight. They make the match-ups people want to see, and regardless of who is the poster boy of the moment, ultimately it’s what they do in the cage that matters. Even those that hate on Dana White have to admit that, especially after last night’s debacle. Dancing girls and shitty rappers aside, the difference in quality from UFC 84 to EliteXC’s coming out party on CBS last night is not even close. I know it’s the same sport technically, but it wasn’t even in the same league. I don’t think anyone expected EliteXC to be like the UFC, but I don’t think anybody expected what happened last night either.

Finally, there was so much traffic on BE last night! You guys deserve it! And despite all that traffic, the comments were excellent, as everyone managed to keep things as a civilized debate instead of collapsing into inane stupidity. Very nice to see.

by pud333 on Jun 1, 2008 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

undercard

I agree that the undercard was good, but two matches ended with one of the fighters quitting, literally. It’s a disgrace when a fighter like Nick Serra drops to the ground and stays there after repeated attempts from the ref to stand him back up. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen something like that in the UFC. Then, the fight after that, carlos moreno failed to answer the bell after the first round. After watching those two endings, I was like “what a joke!”.

by boogster on Jun 1, 2008 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

No

There’s a point later on the ground where it looked like he was tapping, but in the moment you’re pointing out he’s actually giving the ref a thumb’s up. It’s unclear on the crappy video, but last night in HD that was clear as day.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on Jun 1, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Slice says he likes to beat up bullies, but he seems to be more of a bully than he realizes. That is, it’s easy to pick on easy prey, but it’s a different matter when other men can stand up to you.”

Wait, wait, wait.. are you saying Kimbo fights inferior opponents, like a bully? Are you saying he is a “thug”?!!

by Ark on Jun 1, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

He has a bullying style in which if he faces any adversity he knows not what to do.

by Richard Wade on Jun 1, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

This prompts the thought: maybe we should all be more thankful for Big John McCarthy then? He may have made mistakes (none that I’m aware of) as he’s human, but maybe his calling is a big part of why the UFC got better and not worse?

by swarmofkillermonkeys on Jun 1, 2008 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

(none that I’m aware of)

horn liddell 1? Sakuraba’s one night in the ufc? ..... all refs make bad calls here and there… just not that many people were watching….make a questionable call, like the one mirgliaotta made last nighton network tv, and folks start throwing around preposterous notions of fight fixing….

by robnashville on Jun 1, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you know there just HAD to be pressure from the suits at CBS not to get too blood-sporty. Just a little. The real question is why Thompson came into the fight with that thing, especially against the limited toolset of Kimbo that does include a big right hand. Just happened to be his left ear too, or both? I can’t tell. In any case, it was irresponsible if not fixing, I’d think. I was referring to the other stoppages leaving most fans wanting as well though, not just the Ferguson/Thompson fight. (Including them not following their own rules for accidental eye pokes).

by swarmofkillermonkeys on Jun 1, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

about the medical stoppages, i think the super-vigilant new jersey state athletic commission is one of the reason’s that the UFC had such a long time period in between cards in NJ…....that, and the fact that Nick Lembo (the chairman) won’t let dana get away with the Zuffa Myth and dana probably hates him for it

by robnashville on Jun 1, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sakuraba in 1997? He caught that on tape review. McCarthy owned up to his mistake, changed his call, and it was essentially refought immediately! The same day, which I think Sakuraba won right? Hardly anything like fixing, or ruining his career. He took 5 hard punches to the head without returning them that McCarthy was screened from seeing, then when John finally did get position, he saw Sakuraba just eat 3 more while cowering against the cage including another big uppercut. Then he dropped like a rock—straight down. You can call hugging someone’s shoelaces a takedown, but… I don’t know, though a mistake by Big John, I don’t see that as anywhere near comparable to those many odd stand ups in round two of Kimbo’s fight, then the business in round three. The NJ commission doesn’t say anything about standing them up from side mount, as far as I know.

I don’t remember Horn v Liddell 1 at all, but looking it up now, thanks for clueing me in on that. C’mon crappy intarwebs footage don’t fail me now… but mostly I agree with what you are saying. I think if it was that call alone, Mirgliaotta would be OK by fans. Well, mostly. I think they’ll always blame the ref over the commission however.

by swarmofkillermonkeys on Jun 1, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

about the saku fight….. mccarthy blew the call on the fight. He didn’t change his call…saku only got a rematch because tank broke his hand and couldn’t advance to the finals. mccarthy admitted later on in his career that he pretty much screwed that one up. I didn’t imply that McCarthy was fixing, just that he made a very questionable stoppage to the fight just like mirgliaotta.

like in any sport i think it helps to know who your refs are and gameplan around that if you can…....pitchers do that with umps in baseball, nba guys the same with their refs…...... mirgliaotta is a little more reactive to the crowd when it comes to stand-ups, something that has been true of his work in the ifl and ufc also…....this is as opposed to McCarthy, who is/was very to reluctant to put a fight back on the feet once it has gone to the ground…...

by robnashville on Jun 1, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

? the fight was change from KO to No Contest… that sounds like a change to me. Yeah, he blew it but my point was that there was a fair outcome in the eyes of the fans and fighters, one way or another.

Screw stand ups. They already chopped the match into little rounds (4 mins for IFL, 3 for women, what’s next? Full body armor and 10 seconds between bells?). If this is a sport then you follow the rules as a ref and let them fight as much as you are able within the rules and your conscience. If it isn’t a sport but scripted, fine do whatever you want to please the crowd. Making decisions based strictly on the TV ratings isn’t all that different from making decisions based on what would please bookies the most. Best to stay off that slippery slope.

Sorry, but just I don’t buy your rationalization on THAT MANY standups in one round. Shouldn’t be doing that period. Speaking of the NBA, you do realize they just came off of a season where the refs WERE fixing games by calling? All the more reason not to tolerate the crap in this event, in my opinion.

by swarmofkillermonkeys on Jun 1, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry to reply to self, but that sounded like I was calling angrily fix… I didn’t mean to imply that, just frustration with people always excusing things with what they think will be popular. Man… just let them fight, no? People always hate the gimmicks bolted on, but the marketers deafly insist on them each time (teams, dancing pole-girls, whatever) to justify their jobs. And then everybody bitches about them. It’s like they don’t think the MMA is interesting itself, so how could anyone else possibly like just it. Well, we do actually. Grrr. This ref was probably even a good man, but worrying about being popular instead of just judging a consistent, impartial fight got him in trouble I think. Maybe I’m wrong about BJM, but I see consistency there. You make good point about the commission, maybe NJ should be boycotted by everyone.

by swarmofkillermonkeys on Jun 1, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big John McCarthy mistake No.1

Four words for you: “The infamous double tap.”

That said, Big John is the man and he wouldn’t have stopped any of those fights last night.

I also question the skills of the doctor on duty. That poke in the eye didn’t seem like a fight stopper to me. I also suspect there may have been a different medical standard applied to the women (“She’s fine to fight, but boy, a woman with a black eye makes me uncomfortable … let’s call in a night, eh?”)

by thetakeover on Jun 1, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's funny

...but I’m not as down on Kimbo after last night as a lot of people, and I’ve never actually been a Kimbo fan. I think he has great power, and clearly demonstrated some good fundamentals escaping from a crucifix and shrimping out of side control. The mistake that led to last night’s lousy performance may have been Bas Rutten’s: Kimbo said in the post-fight interview that he never thought Thompson would take it to the ground, which means he probably hasn’t been focusing on training for the ground game. And Bas surely advised him on “Gong and Dash” Thompson!

But yeah, Kimbo’s overhyped – we always knew that. This was just his Lesnar/Mir moment when people realized it. I think this is the kind of loss that he can come back stronger from – just like I expect more from Lesnar against Herring after gettig jits-ed out by Mir. And fighters developing more skills? Always a good thing.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on Jun 1, 2008 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah… bas should have watched more of the brett nelson fight….. before he got viciously ko’ed in that fight, thompson was trying to work the waffle house hash brown/randy couture offense (smother and cover), it wasn’t that far a leap in logic to think he may try to add the takedown game into the mix….

by robnashville on Jun 1, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

Thompson said he was training harder than ever on his ground game. I wish he would have split some of that time up to work on cardio and endurance training, but the guy did half of his training camp down in Vegas with (if I remember correctly) Xtreme Couture. (Or was it some other place?)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on Jun 1, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know he trained with randy for the rogers fight but didn’t train there this time because Kimbo was training there (sparring with forrest by most internet reports). Maybe now that this fight is over Thompson will work with Xtreme Couture again.

by robnashville on Jun 1, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

See, I don’t think that’s the case. Kimbo saying he never thought Thompson would take it to the ground seems a bit like covering his own ass. It’s as if he sucked on the ground because he didn’t train as hard for it because he never expected Thompson to do that. I think Bas is a smarter guy than that, and would have tried to prepare Kimbo for any situation as best as possible. (I mean if joe blow blogger can predict Thompson would take Kimbo down and test his ground game, Bas probably knew too). I just think that in the short time Kimbo has been in the sport, as much of a hard worker as Bas says he is, perhaps he just doesn’t have the skills to pick up the ground game very fast. Maybe it will take longer than expected.

In my mind, Thompson isn’t the best on the ground and he sucked pretty good last night. But Kimbo had no answer for him several times, especially the end of the second when he could do absolutely nothing. He may have trained for the ground, but I think when push came to shove, and he met someone that could actually bully him around a bit, none of that ground training stuck. I think Kimbo saying that was definitely him covering his own ass. I like Kimbo for his desire to be a better MMA fighter, but he’s been sorely exposed.

The Lesnar/Mir comparison is totally different. Lesnar was definitely hyped, but he was up against a former UFC champ who has great BJJ and who is dangerous off his back in the guard. It’s not like he was fighting a guy like Thompson. I think Lesnar showed far more promise in his fight than Kimbo did in all of his last three combined. I mean, watching Lesnar move that fast and that hard was quite a site, especially when he spun around atop Mir to pound on him. His wrestling pedigree showed. Kimbo doesn’t have that benefit. It’s not Kimbo’s fault, he’s doing his best, but I think he’s just what he is: a streetfighter struggling to be an MMA fighter.

by pud333 on Jun 1, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

great recap

Gus did a great job, but so did Mauro. The broadcast team was one the few things they really managed to get right.

no kick no life

by JohnBuchan on Jun 1, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Why?

Why do people think Mauro does a good job? His jokes are awful and every “casual” I’ve ever watched a show he was calling with has thought that he is just brutally bad and cheesy.

I can’t stand him and the better he is off my TV the better.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 1, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh I was kind of wondering that myself. The guy came off like a complete idiot, not only with the dumb jokes but with the uber-corny stuff he yelled. “There will be blood!” during the Carano-Young fight? Just strange..

by mythbuster on Jun 1, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely not a Mauro fan. Gus was good, but Mauro is the ultimate in cheese.

by pud333 on Jun 1, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

He seems to polarize fans, for all his detractors, I know lots of fans who think he’s the best.

He has a great voice, and does great play-by-play. When he started in Pride he obviously was green and he’s done a great job, both at increasing his knowledge base and – lets say, refining his skills as a broadcaster. I hear less and less of his outlandishness – but he is definitely cheesy, I have to give you that. I guess with the state of broadcasters in MMA, I feel he does the best job in terms of calling fights effectively while understanding the game. (I’m not personally a fan of Stephen Quadros’ voice.) With that in mind, Mauro’s cheesiness doesn’t usually bother me.

I also enjoy his vocabulary.

no kick no life

by JohnBuchan on Jun 1, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t stand Mauro normally, but I did enjoy his “capitulate” line last night.

by Richard Wade on Jun 1, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

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