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Kimbo Slice Point Counter-Point

Interesting piece on MMA Weekly today with various MMA figures coming down for or agains Kimbo representing the sport on CBS. We've all seen Dana White come out against, and B.J. Penn (whose brother J.D. works for EliteXC) come out for Kimbo. But this article has some new people piping up.

Not surprisingly, Dana's pal Sean Sherk jumps in to say "me too boss":

To be honest with you, I wasn't crazy about the idea.

I think if you're going to headline a main event, a mainstream thing like that, you should have the credentials to follow it.  You know?  I would have liked to have seen a more established fighter, somebody who maybe would represent the sport a little better, because if you're tuning into CBS for the first time and you catch this street fighter guy on television, I think that's going to give us a bad name.  And I think it sets us back a couple of steps.

And Josh Barnett seizes another chance to disagree with Dana.

I'm a fan.  I like him. I think he's good for the sport, and I think he's got potential and shows it in every fight. I think he trains hard and wants to expand his repertoire of techniques and strategies, everything.  I think he's really taking the routes to becoming a full-on pro fighter. 

He certainly has gameness, if anyone has seen his fights on Youtube.  He's the kind of person to go out there, bare-knuckle against some totally unknown guy and be like, hey, let's scrap right here, right now.  And that takes the right kind of mindset to get out there in front of everybody and fight. 

I can understand where hardcore people would get upset because it could present the image that a street fighter could just walk right on in and beat top level MMA guys.  Although, Tank (Abbott), I'm sure he wouldn't even disagree that his best years are behind him.  Bo Cantrell was never a top fighter, and Ray Mercer was a boxer, but went out there, scrapped it up with him and got taken down.  He ended up getting a front-choke of all things.  That shows that he's thinking like an MMA guy, not just a street brawler or straight-up boxer.

I think he's sort of an exception when it comes to street fighters.  I don't think he's the kind of guy you pick off of like Felony Fights, or you see tussling with some frat boys at a bar.  This guy is big, powerful.  He's clearly an athlete, and he's got the kind of training and experience that you just don't find in some street fighter.  He beats up all the other street fighter guys pretty handily, and the one guy that beat him had a background in wrestling and MMA training... I don't think you can just casually treat it as if it's just some street fighter.

To me the question is, how long before B.J. and Dana fall out again? Seems like they're always at a tense point and B.J. has walked on the UFC before.

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I think it’s rather presumptuous and belittling to make those comments regarding Sherk. Sherk isn’t the only guy to feel that Kimbo doesn’t deserve to be the main event, nor is he the first to not support the street fighter angle that CBS is pushing. Georges St. Pierre is a guy who denounces streetfighting and would never call himself a street fighter, and I doubt you’d label him “Dana’s little pal” or use any “me too boss” references if it were GSP making these statements.

Give me a champ like GSP any day, a guy with class and professionalism, as opposed to BJ Penn, who although talented, shows very poor class and judgement on a regular basis.

by Hardcharger on May 30, 2008 12:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

point taken

I cut out the “little” before pal. that’s a cheap shot. But let’s be real, if Sherk wasn’t consistently polishing Dana’s apple he never would’ve gotten an immediate title shot after the steroid bust. He’d be out on his ass like Josh Barnett and Hermes Franca.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think this assessment is correct either.

First, you’ve failed to address the point that there are many high profile fighters who have expressed the very same viewpoint that Sherk has, and haven’t drawn the same ire from you as Sean did. Why is that? Sounds like more hating on a great fighter for no reason.

Second, Hermes wasn’t booted from the UFC. And Barnett only left because he’s ridiculous to deal with for the UFC management. Tim Sylvia wasn’t booted for his positive test, and stepped back into a title shot.

Sherk-Penn was the only fight that made sense at 155. Heck, even BJ now says that after fighting Sherk that he can’t get excited to fight anyone else at that weight, and is calling out GSP. Who do you propose that BJ should’ve fought, if not Sherk (who served his punishment after a positive test that seemed very questionable by the CSAC)?

by Hardcharger on May 30, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a fan of Sherk's

I was very disappointed with his fight against BJ but I’ve never been one of the bashers. In fact, I defended him against the steroid charges long after most sensible people had cut him loose.
I do think however that Sherk’s benefited from an unusually tight relationship with Dana and once again they agree.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fwa?

Great fighter? That’s pushing it.

And no reason? There are sooooo many reasons to hate on Sean Sherk. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on May 30, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are your numerous reasons to hate Sean Sherk? A lot of people love to hate on him for the questionable steroid situation, but other than that the guy exemplifies what’s good in MMA. He’s not as dynamic a fighter as Georges St. Pierre, but he’s still very good, very skilled, an incredibly hard worker, a family man, and a nice guy.

I have serious questions about any “fan” who claims to have a multitude of reasons to hate a guy like Sherk.

by Hardcharger on May 30, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why BJ?

I don’t understnad your reference to Bj at the end. The whole article has almost nothing to do with BJ Penn, and then at the end you ask when he and Dana will split? Makes no sense to me, I guess I missed something here.

by strictlymma.com on May 30, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

B.J.'s had a tempestuous relationship

with Dana in the past. He abandoned the welterweight belt after he beat Hughes.
It just occurred to me that B.J. is the type of independent personality that Dana can rarely abide for very long.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL?

Is this implying that BJ Penn could potentially leave the UFC because he likes Kimbo Slice? God, I hope not.

by Leland Roling on May 30, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No

But the difference of opinion between he and Dana and the fact that his brother JD is a player with EliteXC just reminded me of Dana and BJ’s tense history of past disagreements.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

That is a little silly. And I think BJ has matured a lot since the last time he and Dana butted heads. Whether Dana has grown up at all remains to be seeen. :-)

But I do think UFC management needs to force BJ to defend his belt a little more. 1 successful title defense – which they were treating like the settling of an interim belt situation anyway – isn’t enough. And GSP ought to successfully defend his belt at least once as well. (So that people who love him won’t seem like such nuthuggers if nothing else.)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on May 30, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on the belt defences

BJ owes it to the fans and to his legacy to soundly whip Florian (I give Huerta no chance against KenFlo) before he gets to step up and fight GSP.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...

Since he didn’t have to work his way up (twice) like GSP, he really needs to take on more of the top contenders. Luckily GSP has beaten most of the good welterweights already.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on May 30, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah but

Sure it’d be fun to see BJ thrash Tyson Griffin, Tavares, Maynard, and the other upncomers at 155 but I’d rather see BJ rematch Matt Hughes then take on GSP.
Those fights will be epic in a way that BJ dominating at 155 won’t.
Plus if BJ beats GSP (which he could) it would be really fun to see him defend the belt at 170 - Koscheck, Diego, Karo, Kim, Yoshida, Alves - lots of great fights for BJ at 170.

by Kid Nate on May 30, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

What makes the fights exciting – and they do make my mouth water a little bit – is that BJ is honestly too small to be monkeying around at 170. Even in remarkably great shape against Sherk he looked like he could have cut to 145 to take on Faber just by sticking to a diet for a couple months.

And yeah, he has a good shot against GSP – especially now – and would easily tool most of the WW division. Maybe we need a couple tournaments: make BJ and GSP fight 3 or 4 title defenses in one night, just to make it competitive. Can anybody see Florian, Maynard or Griffin making BJ break a sweat? Let’s see him take them all on. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on May 30, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We’ve already seen him fight Hughes and St. Pierre. I’d really rather see him dominate the lightweight division for at least a year.

by Richard Wade on May 30, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t wait to see BJ punish Florian.

by Fujin on May 30, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm...

While I understand the point regarding JD, I doubt BJ really cares.

BJ wants to fight the best, and the only place he can really prove himself in the LW division now is in Japan. That’s more of a reason that anything for BJ to head out of the UFC. I think his legend would be solidified with wins over champions at different weight classes though, and he can do that in the UFC.

by Leland Roling on May 30, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Twofer

I would really like to see B.J. simultaneously own two belts the way Hendo did in Pride. That, to me, is the mark of being a champion’s champion.

by thetakeover on May 31, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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