Hype, Cans, and Reality
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:08 AM EDT
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PrintMatt Lindland - Olympic Silver Medalist - First three opponents win percentage coming into the fight = 68% (22 combined fights)
Hidehiko Yoshida - Olympic Gold Medalist - First three opponents win percentage coming into the fight = 65% (64 combined fights)
Fedor Emelianenko - Recognized as one of the greatest MMA fighters ever - First three opponents win percentage coming into the fight = 66% (3 combined fights)
Kimbo Slice - Street Fighter - First three opponents win percentage coming into the fight = 52% (64 combined fights)
Kimbo is a guy with nothing even closely resembling the background of Lindland, Yoshida, or Fedor. Yet he has fought a comparable first three opponents. Obviously the win percentage of opponents is a little higher for the other three, but when you look at Lindland and Yoshida those numbers are skewed a bit due to a single fighter (Travis Fulton and Kiyoshi Tamura respectively) and with Fedor the fact that his opponents had a combined 3 fights throws that out the window. Let us not forget that Kimbo's next opponent is a guy who stopped Yoshida...brutally.
I guess what I'm getting at is...why is Kimbo being held to a higher standard than guys with deep Olympic level backgrounds? Is it strictly the fact that EXC is hyping him as a major star? Did the Japanese not have the same level of hype for Yoshida when he entered MMA? Is that more excusable because of his background?
The truth is that Kimbo is seeing levels of hype not before seen for a fighter so early in his career (with the possible exception of Brock Lesnar) simply because there has never been a time in the young life of this sport where this level of hype was attainable. When B.J. Penn burst on the scene in the UFC they were hyping him, but ESPN could have cared less about the sport...there was no cover story in one of the biggest sports magazines. The sport just wasn't there yet.
Now that mixed martial arts is a part of popular culture it is possible for a company to throw this kind of hype behind a fighter. Kimbo is a known personality to a large segment of fans and the response to the shows he has been a part of has been very positive. Elite XC is a business and as such they are putting hype behind the biggest name they have available. Business 101...if you have a commodity that people want...sell it.
So now we see Kimbo developing as a fighter, being brought along a path of increasing challenges and being the fighter the general public is most interested in watching. But the hate won't stop from a large segment of the hardcores because he is "being fed cans" while receiving main event hype. But it needs to be realized that you can't place this level of hype behind fighters like Jake Shields or Antonio Silva and achieve the level of success that Kimbo provides. Slice is the only person on the EXC roster who has the connection with the fans to where they are salivating over watching his next fight. You put him on top of the card and let fans see the other fighters on your roster. Hopefully one of them catches on.
One final point...in television you want your biggest star to go on last. I can promise you that were Kimbo to fight mid-show the ratings would reflect a significant percentage of viewers tuning out after his fight ends. This isn't pay-per-view where once you pay $45 for the event you're not tuning out until the broadcast ends. This is free TV where if you don't care...you watch something else. Kimbo getting the main event spot is the smartest possible decision Elite XC and CBS could make.
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”...why is Kimbo being held to a higher standard than guys with deep Olympic level backgrounds? Is it strictly the fact that EXC is hyping him as a major star?”
Who’s holding Kimbo to a higher standard? Hardcore MMA fans? I think they’re holding the main event in the first network TV MMA show to higher standards than an unproven fighter/
I don’t think any hardcore MMA fans are saying Kimbo, the fighter he is right now, should be fighting tougher competition. I think hardcore MMA fans are conflicted with the sport vs entertainment line. You’re totally right that Kimbo is the dude that’s going to put the most butts in the seat for Elite XC. But is that due to skill? Not really. It’s due to entertainment.
Personally I like fighters that bring both to the table, like Barnett, or Mayhem, or Aoki, or my personal favorite, Penn.
But who has that in EXC?
The next biggest fighter on the card in terms of putting people in front of a television with CBS on is probably Gina. And I’m sorry…but Gina/Kaitlin isn’t main event worthy.
And I am constantly hearing that Kimbo is being “fed cans” etc…that is the higher standard I’m talking about.
EXC doesn’t have anyone else who can draw anywhere close to the number of viewers that Kimbo can. Gotta roll with the man who gets you your money.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
As much as I love Barnettt
He does not put asses in seats in America and neither does Mayhem (except for Hawaii).
by Luke Thomas on May 29, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Mystique
Crazy white guy…and kinda doughy white guy don’t have the same level of “ohhh…what’s gonna happen.”
Obviously were things simply a matter of “better fighter = more interest” they’d be light years ahead of Kimbo. It’s just that American audiences have never shown too much interest in either fighter.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
In a way...
yes.
Kimbo’s story is…more interesting to your average Joe.
Everyone has a crazy Mayhem type friend who says crazy things and acts like a wild man. Everyone knows dudes that look like Josh Barnett. He isn’t exactly diesel. He looks like a dude you would run into in a bar.
Kimbo though…the dude made his name as a street fighter. He was a security brute for a porn site. He was homeless for a time. His story is much more compelling.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
lets take a closer look here...
think you have some good points here and than some other ones that are… well there are some facts here that while true dont look as favorable when you go a little more in depth
1) you state that kimbos opponesnts have a winning percentage of 52%... i find this figure to be INCREDIBLY deceiving because 8 of tank abbotts 9 wins were 10+ years ago… if you take each of his 3 opponents and only take their last 5 fights into consideration and you got a winning percentage of 26% (half of 52% for the mathmatically challenged) (take their last 10 matches and you get 37%)
2) fedor won his first match and within 6 months he had 5 fights under his belt including a decision victory over ricardo arona his 4th time in the ring. Didnt come into the sport with much fanfare, as soon as his talent was recognized he was taking on all comers so i dont see the comparison here
3) matt lindland was concentrating on wrestling when he did his first few matches and i dont think he started mma full time until after 2000 olympics. Within a year of coming back he had a win over ricardo almeida and (a at the time undefeated) phil baroni
4) Yoshida had his first fight against don frye (who had one loss at the time) and his 4th match (in under a year) was against wanderlei silva
It has been a year now since kimbo had his first “exhibition” fight, close to 2 years since he started training with Bas Ruten full time and we still havent even seen him defend a takedown. Maybe i am the only one but i view what kimbo was doing (hopped up on anabolics or not) as alot closer to mma fighting than any type of wrestling (professional or r/g)
To top it all off we are hearing rumors that after this fight he is going to have another cakewalk with a borderline obese mike tyson, i think kimbo is happy where he is and will never be much more than a carnival strong man act.
All true...
I’m simply saying that a guy whose background did not consist of competing against athletes should not be held to a “alright…it’s your third fight! Stop fighting cans!” attitude from the fans.
If these are the type of fights he is happy with for the rest of his career…then fine. Be happy that he allows EXC to draw in even more fans to watch the product.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
While you cant classify most of kimbos youtube opponesnts as “athletes” you can say that what he was doing was fighting…. fighting in a way that is way more similar than brock’s professional wrestling and/or anyone elses college wrestling
why do we even want the fans that kimbo is going to draw in?? Did you see the mess that the kimbo tank fight was?? Booing as soon as a fight went to the ground (regardless of how active they were being), throwing crap in the ring
Is kimbo going to be a good thing for our sport when he blindsides an opponent and punches him in the back of the head as he is trying to walk away ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEbSYWyP1EI )? Is kimbo going to be a good representation for the sport when he (once again) refuses to listen to a ref trying to reset a match and even puts his hands on/pushes him out of the way like he did in the tank match?
It’s drawing in fans to watch a shitty product, though. That doesn’t help the sport as a whole. People will tune into EXC on Saturday to see MMA for the first time and they’re going to get shit. How does that help the sport?
by Richard Wade on May 29, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that...
it is fair to consider it a shitty product. Kimbo is a very good striker. His boxing technique is actually quite sound, he has good head and trunk movement, under appreciated footwork, and he hits like a truck. Thompson has a bad chin and often has bad strategy, but he isn’t necessarily a bad fighter.
As for how it helps the sport…simple. It helps pull a good rating (again…there is no one else on the roster who can pull the numbers Kimbo can). Without a good rating MMA on network TV is going to die and not come back for a long time.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m unconvinced, but hopefully you’re right.
by Richard Wade on May 30, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
let us also not forget that kimbos next oppenent is known for having a glass jaw and has been KTFO in the first minute at least 4 times
He also...
...has some credible wins on his resume and has fought on one of the biggest stages in the history of MMA. It is an appropriately sized step up in competition in my eyes.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
biggest stage??
refresh my memory… what is the biggest stage you are referring to??
and i dont mean to continue beating a dead horse but no one has mentioned yet that this guy got KOd by butterbean in 43 seconds… johnny knoxville lasted longer than 43 seconds.
What would your opinion be if kimbo wins this fight and than butterbean (or even mike tyson) is announced as his next oppenent??
(have i crossed the line between heated debate and just being an ass yet?? i hope not… thanks for the writeup and making a first time poster feel welcome.)
the guy who KO’d james thompson last eXC event would have been an appropriate step up… james thompson is a step up by default because lets face it…. you cant get any lower than tank abbott
Brett Rodgers
...is a guy who I think would have been a bit too much of a step up in my eyes. Would have been an interesting scrap though. For sure
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
too much of a step??
can you at least admit that james thompson was handpicked to get kimbo a quick KO… and that his style of head down, running at his opponent kills any credibility he may have as a legit fighter with ring experiense. I view james thompson as close to a lateral move from tank abbott as you can get.
The predictable 30 second KO happens on sunday… who do you think would be a good 4th opponent for kimbo would be??
I’ll try to respond to all of your stuff here. And no…you haven’t crossed the line. I’m not telling people you have to like Kimbo. But rather that you have to understand the asset that he is to a company like EXC and a network like CBS that is taking the risk of putting MMA on network TV.
MMA wants every last fan it can get…at least any company promoting it and any fighter involved in the sport should think so. More fans = more money. More money = better production values, better matchups, better pay for the fighters…etc. I don’t think the Kimbo crowd is really any worse than the majority of the arena at a normal UFC event.
I think that Brett Rodgers would be a nice step up AFTER the Thompson fight. Thompson presents a new challenge for Kimbo in that he has a more rounded skill set than Cantrell or Abbott. This is the first fight Kimbo has been in where there is a real and legitimate chance that someone could put him on his back. Rodgers is a better fighter than Thompson and as such I think it would be a bit too big of a step up at this point in a still developing fighter’s career.
I won’t be happy if Tyson or Butterbean were announced as the next opponent for Kimbo in that we’d stop seeing the progression of opponents going upward, but at the same time Tyson vs. Kimbo would be huge beyond huge. And even a bloated Tyson is going to have dynamite in his hands. But I would much rather see another step forward in the evolution of a fighter.
As for the biggest stage comment. That would be PRIDE. PRIDE was one of the top 2 (if not the biggest from a live audience standpoint) organizations in the world. There is no denying that Thompson’s experience therein is an asset to him as a fighter.
If you think that James Thompson is a lateral move from Tank Abbott I’m not sure what to tell you. His sprint forward style is stupid…and I can pretty much promise (or as much as I can promise what another man does) that he won’t be doing that Saturday night. However this remains a guy who has stopped some tough fighters. He is a much more relevant and legitimate fighter at this point than Tank Abbott. Yoshida is no joke and Thompson layed a beating on him.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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