Post UFC 84: What to Do With Machida And Silva
On Sherdog's post UFC 84 radio show, Jordan Breen discussed the UFC's unique position of having "no-lose" matchmaking in the 205 pound division. I tend to agree with him. There is such a deep talent pool at Light Heavyweight and outside of maybe Quinton Jackson at no. 1, you can make a case for numerous permutations of a top 10 list. There's always an optimal choice though, so where do we go from here?
Wanderlei Silva
For starters, Wanderlei Silva was never "washed up" or "done." There is no shame in losing to Mirko Cro Cop, Dan Henderson, and Chuck Liddell. His latest victory over Keith Jardine, however, is still absolutely huge for his career. For starters, it let everyone who doesn't know anything about him outside of highlight clips and the Liddell fight what he's all about - a vicious wrecking machine - and puts to rest the notion of him moving down to middleweight.
I think the perfect opponent for Wanderlei right now is Stephan Bonnar. If Bonnar's timetable is correct, he should be back from his knee injury in August or September. That would give Wanderlei 2-6 weeks off and then time for an 8 week camp. So what do you get with a Bonnar fight? Strictly from a matchmaking standpoint, you give Wanderlei a fight he should win against a guy who is very game. While Bonnar isn't Forrest Griffin, he should still have a relatively big name.
What I like most about this matchup is that it gives you a lot of flexibility for future fights while keeping the Axe Murderer on a regular schedule. You get to see what happens with the Quinton Jackson-Forrest Griffin fight in July. If Quinton beats Forrest and Wanderlei beats Bonnar, you can set up Silva-Jackson III for the big December show. You also have the option of putting on Liddell-Silva II in the fall or if Liddell gets the Shogun fight, a NYE rematch depending on the results of that fight.
All of this requires Bonnar to be ready to fight by September. If he were unavailable, I think you could go with someone like Rashad Evans. I'm not sure if the UFC wants to protect him, but I personally don't believe he has the ability to be anything more than a second-tier fighter. He also last fought in November, but I don't know how Joe Silva and Dana White could fit him in any of the upcoming cards anyway.
Lyoto Machida

The case for Lyoto Machida's next opponent is a little tougher. You could defend the idea that he's in line for a title shot. However, there's a large gap in marketability between Jackson-Silva III/Jackson-Liddell III and Jackson-Machida (ignore my Rampage bias). While I think Jackson is one of the few fighters who has a style capable of handling Lyoto, you're also faced with the nightmare scenario of a labeled "boring" fighter (not my personal opinion) holding your most prestigious title.
With that in mind, we'll assume the UFC wants Machida to win one or two more fights before handing him a title shot. Now you're faced with this question: Do you want to test Machida with another big name or do you want to give him a fight he's capable of finishing?
I tend to think the UFC will give him a fight he's capable of finishing for a couple reasons. One, it's a reward for beating Tito Ortiz. Two, almost any big name you throw at him is going to look bad win or lose.
Under this criteria, I think the best candidate is Houston Alexander. I like Houston, but his last two fights combined with his age place a pretty heavy ceiling on his career. He still has enough value because of the way he entered the UFC, and Machida would likely submit him in short order.
As I said at the start of the article, the UFC really can't do anything wrong with either of them, outside of Joe Silva doing something incredibly outlandish and out-of-character. Hell, you could even make a case for Machida-Silva. In the end, I think giving both fighters relatively easy fights ends up being better for the company and the fighter, albeit for different reasons.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
2 recs |
19 comments
Comments
Houston Alexander is fighting Eric Schafer at UFC Fight Night 14 in September. Tough fight for Houston.
Lyoto could fight Evans, Irvin or Hamill… as long as it isn’t Wanderlei, because I’m also hoping for a Jackson-Silva III.
by Nick Thomas on May 28, 2008 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I thought he had a fight lined up. I checked his wiki page and didn’t see anything so I just went with it.
by Mike Fagan on May 28, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonnar would have a greater level of cage rust than Evans if they both returned to fighting in the same event. Bonnar also has a psychological disadvantage in that he’s got to worry about protecting his knee from re-injury. Given the capital Bonnar has among fans it would make better sense to give him a tune-up fight before throwing him to the wolves (Wanderlei).
Evans on the other hand has no injuries and most likely greater motivation. His undefeated record and win over Bonnar makes him a better test against Wanderlei – and one Silva could pass with flying colours. The fans would have no problem seeing Evans humbled before Silva’s devastating strikes.
by Flying Gogoplata on May 28, 2008 8:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of giving Machida somebody he can reliably finish. It would have to be someone very aggressive with a relatively soft chin and mediocre all-around defence. But he would also need to be credible non-can that would look great as a victim on Machida’s CV.
by Flying Gogoplata on May 28, 2008 8:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d say my vote would be for Silva/Evans although there is a very real chance that Rashad would be able to get a takedown in 2 of the rounds and win the fight there. It could look a bit like the Arona fight. But Rashad isn’t quite as good at holding guys down as Ricardo.
As for Machida…I like the idea of Machida/Irvin. He can finish Irvin and you’d be using Irvin while he has some cred from the Alexander win. I don’t think Irvin is a lock to beat anyone in the “B” level of UFC fighters and before he loses to someone in a pointless fight I’d rather sacrifice him to someone who could use the “bump” from getting the win.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 28, 2008 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very good article though Mike
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 28, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One niggle
Just because Silva is successful at LHW doesn’t mean he shouldn’t consider dropping to Middleweight. It’s good for the UFC to have some firepower in that division apart from Anderson Silva, and having him clean out that division en route to a title shot could seriously build up his reputation while lowering the risk of him getting beaten by larger fighters.
One of the key differences between the UFC and the Japanese fight scene has always been cutting weight. If everyone else in LHW is going to be bigger and stronger (though not necessarily better, of course) his chances of losing are pretty high against anyone in the division. Better from his perspective to dominate MW than risk becoming a gate-keeper or second tier fighter. (Note the word risk!)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
by jemaleddin on May 29, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There are no 'easy' fights in the UFC
As I recall Dana stating when they signed Brock Lesnar. I think the same applies for the Axe Murderer.
[SILVA] While I think Bonnar brings enough credibility to the Octagon, I think that fight would seem like a step backwards especially after beating Jardine. A guy who previous to this fight was at least in the top 5 among UFC LHWs. Indeed, he may have put a moratorium on his move to 185 with this win but I think he is perhaps 1 or 2 fights away from a title shot, especially if Quinton prevails at UFC 86. I do think a Jackson v. Silva show in December would produce great numbers. So who should Wanderlei fight in the interim? I throw this one out and am ready for criticism: Dan Henderson. It’s obvious Dan still wants to fight at 205 and in my opinion is still a contender at 205 and 185. If not Hendo, I think Jason Lambert has been flying under the radar as of late and may be a game opponent for Silva but thinking about it, I like a Rashad Evans fight against Silva better.
[Machida] Let me ask this…were Hoger, Heath or Nakamura not opponents that Machida should’ve finished? Ironically, he ends up finishing Soko when many thought he would lose to Sokoujdou. At this point, I can understand giving Machida a ‘reward’ of sorts for delivering results from the Ortiz fight however both Dana and Joe have to do fans justice by setting Machida’s next opponent against a top 10 or top 5 LHW contender. Evan’s is a good opponent. But no matter his next opponent, I can’t expect his fight to be predicated on someone whom he can finish. While we mention guy’s like Irvin or Hamill, Machida needs to step up in a big way and make his next fight entertaining. Personally, I think Machida should fight Thiago Silva, Rashad Evans or Keith Jardine.
by Gregory Kim on May 29, 2008 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lambert? How is Bonnar a big step backward for Silva but Jason Lambert (knocked out flat ass cold in his last fight against Wilson Gouveia who has since…got knocked out flat ass cold) is a game opponent?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lambert...
Fair criticism however I did correct myself in mid sentence to go with Rashad Evans. If Bonnar is going to be mentioned as a possible opponent, it’s fair to throw out The Punisher. I think either are a wash as Silva’s next possible opponent.
by Gregory Kim on May 29, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Bonnar...
...has to be considered a step up from Lambert. Lambert has been stopped by Rashad and stopped by Gouveia. Bonnar has lost to Forrest x2 and Rashad. All were decisions. I also think Stephan right now is a better fighter than he was in ‘06.
Rashad is certainly the better choice as you pointed out.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 29, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with Greg and he got his words in faster..
Bonnar is 3 steps back, the next fight for the Axe Murderer is Dan Henderson, you have to appreciate that the UFC pays both of these guys big bucks.. they won’t give them any easy fights…
Look at Hendo, he got Rampage then Silva.
Wand got Chuck Liddell first fight.. Dana protects his own that come through the system because they are cheaper and just as popular.. he does not do that for imported talent.
If Dan loses again he is out.. and they don’t have to worry about his pay check.. if Hendo wins.. then they still have Wand and who cares.. he brings it every night..
Evans might be in line because of his TUF status but in my opinion as a LHW he is useless.. he has room to cut down to Mid Wt and if he does that then he will be a threat at that weight.
As for Lyoto I think you have a sudden death match.. for me this is going to be Lyoto vs Silva nope not Wand, Thiago.
Personally it would be a great fight and finally Lyoto would get a match but these two young lions should not be fed to each other just because they’re Brazilian.. for me behind the big crop Lid, Wand, Hen, Ram, Rua, the only true potential champs are those two.. with Sokoudjou on the sidelines.. Rua & Liddell will still meet in the fall..
I look forward to the big matches.. if Wand wins he fights on NYE against Rampage.. everyone knows Forrest has no chance.. if Hendo wins then he takes on the next best comer probably the loser of Rua/Liddell.. if Liddell wins the Rua fight then he gets another shot at Rampage unless Wand wins.. as Wand would get the first shot at redemption..
Somehow the UFC always cheats themselves out of Super matches because of their red neck mentality.. forget about the USA you cater to the world.. Dana when he signed Wand promised big fights.. besides a couple I haven’t seen them. Outside of Vegas you never see it beyond the main event..
The next card looks like complete garbage.. Pride developed their fighters more and fed them some local highlight reels.. the UFC is to concious of their bottom line.. and set budgets for every card.. which stunts their growth…
This last Vegas card was stacked and had to be the best UFC for a long long time..
The UFC has enough up and comers in most weights to make each card as exciting as the last.. and make it cost effective…but they don’t..
I am an author for many publishers/sites, in MMA I am a freelance writer, some of my most recent interviews have been showcased on MMA Frenzy/UFC Daily.
by Orlandomac on May 29, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I missed that last bit by Greg.. I too think it will be Thiago Silva and will waste both’s potential as we know that is going to a draw..
but Greg if you can’t see how masterful Machida is then you haven’t watched any of his fights.. all his decisions but one were unanimous but one..
They were all like Ortiz.. stunned.. and decisive.. no question of the victor..
Machida has an unorthodox style.. but all the guys in front of him have studied the tapes.. and yet they all can’t solve the puzzle..
I must admit I was initially off put by his style.. but know I am just loving it..
He rarely even gets a wrinke in his shorts.. that is pure class.. and elite..
I am an author for many publishers/sites, in MMA I am a freelance writer, some of my most recent interviews have been showcased on MMA Frenzy/UFC Daily.
by Orlandomac on May 29, 2008 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida
Personally, I am a fan of Machida and while I don’t question Machida’s potential greatness I do think the UFC will be in a bit of bind if indeed Machida continues to string out decisions, unanimous or not.
Read my fanpost “The Lyoto Machida Dilemma.” I don’t question his style and definitely not his class…as he showed nothing but respect towards Tito pre, during and post fight. With how talented a fighter Machida is, I just wonder how the UFC will proceed to market Machida and how will Machida continue to grow a fan base based on his previous fights and his fighting style?
by Gregory Kim on May 29, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silva
I think you can give Machida about with Rich Franklin. That would have a great background story with Machida being Anderson Silva’s training partner. I would basically switch Silva with Franklin and have Silva face Anderson. Or give Silva a more exciting opponent than Bonnar, maybe some like Houston Alexander?
by Jerret Anderson on May 29, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida and Franklin have already fought before
It ended in brutalization for Franklin. How do you think Anderson Silva was able to pick Franklin apart? He and Machida train together and went over the gameplan Machida used.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on May 29, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take on Silva and Machida's next opponents
You have to have each guy fight another who is in the top ten. You can’t have them go from fighting Keith Jardine and Tito Ortiz, both top ten guys, to fighting guys outside the top ten just so that you can save their luster. But, if you are going to do that, you have to make sure they fight guys that are rising themselves or have already made a name for themselves. That leads me to the following.
Wanderlei Silva versus Rashad Evans: Rashad Evans is a fringe top ten guy. He’s defeated the likes of Michael Bisping, Stephan Bonnar, Jason Lambert, Sean Salmon, Sam Hoger, and Brad Imes while he did draw with Tito Ortiz. And Evans does have a name. He’s already headlined a Pay Per View (with Bisping) and he is unbeaten in his career. The winner of this fight could make a series claim for a title shot. Simple as that.
Lyoto Machida versus Thiago Silva: If people remember, Machida’s second fight in the octagon was not supposed to be against David Heath but rather against Forrest Griffin. However, Griffin was unable to fight due to a staph infection. That has sort of sidetracked Machida’s career a little bit. A win over Griffin at this point in time would have Machida fighting Rampage right now. But that’s neither here nor there. Thiago Silva is 4-0 in the octagon and undefeated in his career. He’s finished all of his UFC fights in under two rounds and brings an exciting style. Silva is a fringe top ten guy right now with name recognition that Machida would be tested against. We’d get the battle of unbeatens much like we got with Evans and Bisping. The winner of this fight could make a great case for a title shot.
In a perfect world, the winners of each of these two fights will then fight each other at the End of the Year show to determine the undisputed Number One Contender. However, this is not a perfect world as evidenced by Keith Jardine not getting the title shot over Forrest Griffin when he clearly deserved it. Machida and Wanderlei should actually fight but I doubt the UFC does that. The UFC Light Heavyweight ranks are in such a mess that the UFC has no idea what to do now.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on May 29, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure Joe Silva’s already thought 100% of what we thought of already, plus more.
I too have been advocating W. Silva vs. Evans and Machida vs. T. Silva in some of the other posts, but what this post made me think of is, can Machida reliably finish T. Silva?
Thiago has a better ground game than Sokoudjou so he won’t be easy to submit. And while he did get rocked twice in his last fight with Mendes he recovered well enough to turn the tables. I can’t help but think that while Machida vs. Thiago would be a very exciting fight, Machida would have a tough time finishing it.
Maybe if Machida stays in Miami for a bit and spends most of his time training with Anderson on the “finishing” portion of a fight, he could have his cake and eat it too.
But for now the fans will have to decide on whether to have Machida fight a worthy opponent in an exciting fight, or a lesser opponent in one he can finish.
by Flying Gogoplata on May 29, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 



















