Gina Carano Might Be Preoccupied
by Luke Thomas on May 28, 2008 10:00 AM EDT
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I'll say up front watching Gina do pad work that she's got good power and a lot of snap on both her punches and kicks. We've also seen a decent display of her power and combinations in her fights. But looking at the arm bar and kimura she attempts, she is clearly very, very green when it comes to grappling. She doesn't use her hips very well to work a better angle for the kimura and her arm bar attempt is, to put it mildly, loose.
And I don't know if anyone else gets this feeling, but is Kaitlin Young being completely ignored in the run up to this fight? The odds on this bout are hovering in ballpark of +300 for Young, which is absolutely outrageous. Carano has openly stated that she loves being a fighter, but is leveraging her looks and sex appeal for something larger. I don't blame her for that and it's really unfair to say any one of us would do differently if we were her and had those opportunities presented to us. But justified or not, those distractions come at a price. Kaitlin Young has vicious KO power, has been entering grappling tournaments to improve her ground game and worked a 9+ week training camp just for this fight. She's also been doing Sean Sherk's "Caveman Workout" with Sean Sherk. While Gina's been using oversized Q-Tips to play games as "Crush", Young has quietly put her nose to the grindstone for one thing and one thing only: this fight.
Personally, I think Young is the favorite here. She's young, a little inexperienced and doesn't possess the Thai boxing pedigree of Carano, but this ain't Thai boxing. More importantly, Young's singular focus has been about preparing for this fight and improving her skill with one of the best MMA team's in the country. Gina could win, but with all sorts of distractions and a short training camp, it's hard for me to imagine she's going to walk through anybody, much less a talented and ferocious Kaitlin Young.
Georges St. Pierre was right: it's not the best fighter who wins the fight; it's the best fighter that night. And the easiest way to be the best fighter that night is prepare yourself in every conceivable way. I'm not sure if that can be said about Carano. If you're looking for one underdog to lay money on, it's Kaitlin Young. Get it now while the getting is good.
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I agree. Has she not been doing another Gladiator show recently?
Besides, I hate the sound of this, but if she is leveraging her looks and fights for something else later on she needs to keep her weight down more. When she is cut and lean…she gorgeous, but she more often than not she is a bit too chunky for a career based on her sex appeal.
Let's not be petty
Personally, I think she’s pretty good looking at just about any weight I’ve seen her. I’m not really focused on her weight as it relates to any issue outside of making weight for this competition. I don’t see the discussion as relevant or fair.
by Luke Thomas on May 28, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
...
It’s relevant if she wishes to have a career outside of the ring in the media. She has been marketing herself as sexy fighter. Therefore, it’s relevant.
I also enjoy watching her fight at any weight, but that was not the premise I was going on.
PP
I dunno. I think saying “she is a bit too chunky” is about your subjective analysis. At some point I suppose there is a line where she is no longer sexy if she were to put on weight, but I’ve your criticism levied by others and she doesn’t appear to be slowing down in popularity one bit.
by Luke Thomas on May 28, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
should read: I’ve HEARD your criticism levied by others…
by Luke Thomas on May 28, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly...
PP is right though: you or I might like her with extra meat and muscle – mostly because we respect a lady with that much fight in her – but the camera adds 10 pounds, and the public likes skinny. He’s not saying she’s ugly, just that if she wants to leverage her looks, she should look more like she does on weigh-in day.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I haven’t actually read anything stating that Young is doing the caveman training with anyone in particular (Sherk or otherwise) but she is working out at that gym, she does have video of her doing the training along with her heartrate for reps through the training.
I just hope Young holds Carano to the weight restrictions, previous fights have had the promoter bully Carano’s opponent into taking the fight (even though Carano refused to make weight). I think Young has a good chance of making Carano quit, I haven’t seen anything that says to me that Carano has the will to win and I think if pushed hard she’ll give up. This is just my opinion and I don’t have anything firm to base it on other than how she gave up trying to make weight and her background.
Either way I’m excited for this fight, more than the Kimbo fight and on equal level with Lawler/Smith.
I did an interview with Young. Should be up today or tomorrow.
by Luke Thomas on May 28, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I just hope Young holds Carano to the weight restrictions, previous fights have had the promoter bully Carano’s opponent into taking the fight (even though Carano refused to make weight).
Carano has only legitimately failed to make weight once, and that was in what was already a catch-weight fight. The other time or times she was within the 1/2 pound that is accounted for by clothing; when men are within that range they strip down behind the towel, make weight, and everyone forgets it, but obviously the women aren’t going to strip completely naked behind a towel at the weigh in.
I think this is the fight I’m most looking forward to on that card. I think whichever of these two is able to really connect first in the stand-up has a good shot at finishing the fight quickly; they’re both pretty devastating strikers. It might not be a Thai Boxing match, but if Carano can make it into one, she can do some serious damage quickly.
by Kierkegaard on May 28, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
... of course now she makes me look like an idiot by failing to come close to making weight for the primetime nationally televised CBS bout … I’m still pulling for her, but damn ….
I hate that
Stupid reality: Always making us look bad. But it might have been the right choice for her!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I threw down bigtime for my girl...
Young is a beast. I dig Gina. She’s fantastic at what she is. But Young is the future of women’s MMA in my eyes.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like hard work." -- Thomas Edison
by Brent Brookhouse on May 28, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Where did you bet on this fight? I’m about convinced I should have money on this one.
by Richard Wade on May 28, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone can track down Kaitlin’s fight with Schneider I would really appreciate it.
It’s the only fight she’s had that went to the ground and I’m really curious how she did down there (before being subbed).
Everyone should look up Kaitlin’s fight with Tate to see some very impressive technical ktfo power.
Carano is too big
And I don’t mean fat. Have you seen how much muscle she’s carrying around? Young might be an inch taller (I don’t have the reach stats) but she doesn’t look like she cuts to 135 by more than 10 pounds. There’s probably a difference of 20 pounds of muscle between the two, and it’s going to make a huge difference. After the weigh-in, Carano’s going to be rebounding up to 145-150, and that’s going to be hard for Young to push around.
Sure, technique can overcome a size difference, but it’s not as though she has a huge technique advantage – in the striking, Carano probably has the edge. And saying that she’s sharpening her grappling skills doesn’t mean that she’s any better on the ground than Carano: trying isn’t the same thing as succeeding. Moreover, this is Young’s first fight under the bright lights of media scrutiny: the jitters will be palpable. This is Carano’s fight to lose, and I don’t think she will.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
"loose armbar attempt"
I only skimmed through the video, but if you are talking about the armbar near the beginning – it looked to me that she was moreso demonstrating the technique than actually forcefully applying it. Perhaps you are doing her a disservice there.
Stuck 50 bucks down on Young regardless :)
I hope Carano fooling us all by sandbagging and really putting in the time to produce a great fight. CBS is not stupid, they do not want Carano getting pounded out for three rounds only to have her face ‘shamrocked’ a-la Tito-Ken 1 when the decision is read. Gina maybe saying she has had a short camp but I don’t know if CBS would allow it. Would CBS prioritize making the July 31st date stick over securing the stability of Carano’s star power? Or maybe CBS is that dumb.
The Video
Is it recent or from say, a year ago? Also, it was a photo shoot, not a hardcore training video. I assure you, training with Couture will improve her technique.
Until she fails to make weight for a fight, I can’t believe anyone is talking about it. This isn’t defamer, so let’s discuss fighting, shall we?
Even then
It doesn’t matter if that’s a photo shoot. If that’s how she drills arm bars, then someone needs to correct her. On day one of BJJ they tell you how you practice (drill + spar) will determine how you perform (in competition). There’s NEVER a time where it’s permissible to fuck off and just do a shitty arm bar. I don’t think she’s being lazy, which is my reason for concern: that’s how she does arm bars from the mount. It looked loose and that’s never a good thing.
Obviously
I’m just pointing out, she’s not normally training with photo shoot floor lights in the ring wearing television pancake makeup. And regardless, if the video was taken last year, it’s not as significant as if it was taken last week.
by jebushchrist on May 28, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
But
That’s not a drill. That’s not a sparring session. That’s not any kind of practice. If it were, your point would make sense. But it’s a photo-shoot. She’s trying to look good for the camera, not break somebody’s arm. It’s like the difference between porn and real sex: porno moves don’t make it to film because they feel good – they just present the best camera angles. (Sorry, I know this is a family blog, but that’s the best analogy I have!)
And we don’t know how she does arm-bars from the mount – since we’ll only know when she pulls one off in competition – and that’s not likely to change any time soon. Does anybody really see this fight with Young going to the ground? Stranger things have happened (her RNC on Evinger, for instance), but for the big show I’d bet that everybody who can strike is hoping to do as much of it as possible to keep the excitement level up for all the new potential fans watching. Gary Shaw will have a heart attack if his debut is 3 hours of BJJ. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
See how she plants her front foot?
Right, it’s ok for it to touch, but the weight of your body should be distributed through your hands and onto your opponent’s chest. When you plant your front foot like she does you wind up falling back, causing a big opening for someone to escape. I don’t see how there would be any need to do that during a photo shoot. A shitty arm bar is a shitty arm bar and I just think you guys are making excuses for her.
To be honest...
Well, she is a lot hotter than you, sir. No offense, but you’re not my type. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
well
Then I’d counter that you’re being harder on her than you are other fighters with just 5 professional MMA fights. I’ve never heard her claim to be a black belt in BJJ. She’s acknowledged she’s a novice. She’s not well rounded, by her own admission. I think she should be given the same opportunity to develop her skills as a fighter as everyone else. You’re making an example out of her because of who she is.
by jebushchrist on May 28, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, she’s no Kevin Ferguson, that’s for sure.
by Richard Wade on May 28, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
Didn’t she have to get weighed three times when she last fought, and then only to come in a pound and a half over (the normal 1 pound leeway and the half pound for clothes which is kinda BS)? That’s pretty close to missing weight.
But regardless: NOBODY ELSE FIGHT AT 140. She’s fighting at Carano-weight specifically because she can’t make 135 like the rest of the top women in the sport, and those women will tell you that fighting at 140 means you’re not making weight.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
pretty close to missing weight
Show me a fighter that comes in below weight, and I’ll show you a fighter that isn’t fighting smart. You’re supposed to come in as large as possible to get every advantage you can. So now she’s supposed to come in below the weight because her name is Gina Carano?
those women will tell you that fighting at 140 means you’re not making weight.
That’s a superfluous argument you’re making… unless you’re a women’s professional MMA fighter. If her opponents can’t handle figthing at 140, then don’t sign the contract. Jesus, give me a break. You’re holding her to a different standard than other fighters for what reason?
by jebushchrist on May 28, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Self-imposed blindness
Now look, you made me go and get Biblical on you:
Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. —Matthew 13:13
If you don’t think it’s important that she’s had significant issues making weight in the past or that she seems to get bigger between each successive fight, that’s fine. But to suggest that it isn’t a legitimate concern for the rest of us is a little strange, no? We’re not allowed to have this opinion?
unless you’re a women’s professional MMA fighter.
Several female fighters have gone on record with this point. I’m just reiterating it. Or would you argue that I can’t complain about a murder unless I’m the deceased? I can’t complain about
You’re holding her to a different standard than other fighters for what reason?
Actually, you have that exactly backwards. Take a look at the following numbers and see if anything jumps out at you: 125, 135, 145, 155, 170, 185, 205, 265. That’s right! They’re the standard weight classes under the Unified Rules of MMA. If you’re fighting in America, you either make one of those weights or somebody is holding you to a different standard. Every other woman that wants to fight does so by training to make one of those weights (realistically 135 – all the action is there), and unless they want to make a career out of just fighting Gina Carano, it’s important that they continue to do so. Having her own weight class is unfair to the women she competes against, and it biases fights in her favor.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
the bible? spare me
I stand by my point: They can go on fighting at whatever non-Gina weight they like.
It’s hardly her “own weight class” when the fight weight is designated months in advance. Regardless, if it’s such a hardship for you, and for them, then don’t fight her. Problem solved!
by jebushchrist on May 28, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, she’s the mascot for the second biggest North American MMA promotion. To say, “don’t fight at the Gina Carano special weight class” is a little unfair.
by Richard Wade on May 28, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey I would like to make a bet on Young myself. She has the better preperation.
On the subject of grappling, I still don’t understand why they even bother teaching her subs from the bottom. Its a waste of time that is much better spent learning how to get up especially with such a short training camp.
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