The Machida Divide -- Which Side Are You On?
by Kid Nate on May 25, 2008 11:08 AM EDT
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Looking around at the forums and message boards , it's clear that there is a big split among MMA fans about Lyoto Machida. Some even say that being a fan of Machida = being a true fan of MMA:
I think when Machida fights you really get to see which fans appreciate MMA as a sport, and which just like to watch for random violence.
But others had more nuanced critiques :
Tito was pushing the fight...Machida was dragging it out. There is a difference between counterpunching, picking apart and avoidance. A large portion of the fight, Machida was simply attempting to avoid the fight...specifically most of the second round. He did press the fight a few times, but it was in 5 second spurts with agonizing minutes of inactivity in between those spurts.
Personally, I'm a huge Machida fan. I thought his performance last night was dazzling in parts -- especially in round one and to a lesser extent in round two -- but have to agree with Luke's analysis on Any Given Saturday that Tito's performance in round three was very impressive. I'd give all three rounds to Lyoto because that knee to the liver was brutal, but Tito's triangle is one of those moves that was so close you could cry for him.
I want to see Machida vs Thiago Silva -- battle of the undefeated Brazilians. Total opposites. Fire and Ice. But both are fast rising contenders.
The other thing about this that I just don't relate to is this -- Machida pulls off some of the flashiest moves I've ever seen in MMA. This double kick is fucking rad. If you don't like moves like that, just what are you looking for?
Even more than layNpray, the fighters that bore me are those like Josh "Bring the Pain" Haynes who just brawl wildly with no skill or gameplan.
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I am firmly pro-Machida. You have to do more than walk forward to “push the pace.” There is something to be said for CONTROLLING the pace being much more important than simply pushing it.
You can’t say he didn’t do anything. Tito was cut up, had a little swelling and was dropped by a beautiful knee. People who are saying this is like the Starnes fight are flat stupid.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
It’s not a fight though, i mean, his style is to not get hit, and it’s just not that fun to watch. It’s a sport but it’s entertainment, and to see tito’s last fight supposedly in the ufc be a snore fest was disappointing.
How do you control the pace if all you do is move sideways to get out of the way?
Tito’s problem is he trained hard, but he didn’t train for machida, he had no gameplan and once he couldn’t take him down tito was lost. So I blame both of them, but if page or jardine or someone from a camp that comes up with good gameplans fights machida I think he will be taken out and exposed.
au contraire
To me Machida’s style is to hit without getting hit and go for the kill when he gets the chance. Had the first round been 30 seconds longer he would’ve finished Tito in that crucifix. I do think he can be faulted for coasting/fading in rounds 2 and 3 after he’d gotten the 10-8 round in the first.
But its hard for me to relate to those who are bored because I enjoy watching Machida move so much. His attacks are unconventional and he mixes up a deep repertoire of them. Even his takedowns are fun—admittedly Tito was going to fall for any of the foot sweeps he has nailed others with but that body lock TD was nice.
What about Thiago Silva and ATT? Think they could gameplan for T. Silva against Machida like they did for Alves against Karo?
The problem is that there aren’t that many MMA bad asses who are Karateka. Alves trained with Ferguson, a better judoka than Karo. Who would you train with to prep for Lyoto?
Pro Machida
I’m pro Machida and I agree with all the pro Machida sentiments out there. There’s nothing wrong with avoiding getting hit as long as you are doing damage yourself, which he obviously always does.
I think guys like Machida, are the new breed of MMA fighters, specifically guys that are well rounded AND have such excellent timing that they can inflict damage without taking much. Fighters that can engage wisely, timing their shots, never needing to be reckless, and still capitalizing when an opportunity arises. I think this is what we see with Anderson Silva, Cung Le, and sometimes GSP. We may have seen this with BJ Penn this time as well, but he also had his reach to rely on.
I think if you can’t appreciate Machida’s style and skill, maybe you should try pro wrestling.
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MMA Ratings
t’s not a fight though, i mean, his style is to not get hit, and it’s just not that fun to watch.
Since when does a fight have to involve getting hit? The idea is to hurt the other guy, not to see how hurt you can get.
If a fighter can use skill to avoid getting hit, while hitting the opponent, then power to him.
Also, I didn’t find the fight boring at all. It’s just as entertaining watching an intelligent fight as a caveman clubfest.
Hitting the other guy while avoiding getting hit sounds an awful lot like fighting to me. Is it Machida’s fault he’s that he’s so much better than Tito?
by Richard Wade on May 27, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought the entire fight was exciting. Maybe it’s because I enjoyed the aspect that at any second Tito could finally get what he was going for – be it a strike or takedown – or Machida could elude it (elusive was used nine times, by the way). Seeing one of the best fighters in the world swinging and hitting air isn’t something you see very often.
I’m also not sure what Machida would be “exposed” as…
Machida is WORLD CLASS…anybody saying any different is retarded…how was he running the whole fight when he thew QUADRUPLE the amount of strikes compared to Tito….and let’s not mention how he was throwing Tito around like a ragged doll. He made Ortiz look like a B level fighter at best. However, I must say Tito impressed me with the triangle in the 3rd round…that was epic.
First time post. Love the site. Great staff and super-knowledgeable fan base.
In defense of Machida, there is another high profile, side-to-side counter puncher in the UFC in the 205-lb. division who is extremely popular. Chuck Liddell’s basic style is not all that different from Machida’s if you break it down. Chuck has the same lateral movement, he picks his spots, avoids takedowns and has plenty of slow moments in his fights. The main difference, as I see it, between the two, is that there is always the possibility of a knockout in Liddell’s fights, whereas Machida has not seemed to possess a killer instinct while in the UFC.
Being a karate guy, I’m a Machida lover though, so I’d probably defend him no matter what. But similarly, Chuck comes from a karate background, too.
Pro Machida, for sure. Watching Machida last night totally made a fan out of me. He’s a technician and strategist first and foremost. He uses lots of fakes to confuse his opponents, level shifts, and ultimately turns his opponent’s strengths against them. He beat Tito everywhere last night, controlling the pace of the fight, and taking it to Tito when he saw an opening. Even with being the smaller man, he shrugged off Tito like it was nothing whenever Tito went for the takedown. He’s not a boring fighter if you understand the technique behind it all. Just like a ground fight isn’t boring if you know the technique behind it. Machida is the man for sure. Don’t bet against him.
I can’t say enough good things about Lyoto Machida. Watching him fight is like watching Neo dodge bullets in The Matrix. His opponents throw a punch, and before their arm is fully extended, Machida has evaded the strike and countered. It’s as if Machida is operating at one speed and everyone else is operating at another, much slower speed. It’s brilliant.
What people still don’t seem to understand is that Machida is a counter fighter. If you press him, he will find an opening and go to work. However, he is more than happy to bide his time waiting for just the right moment to strike. It’s true, it doesn’t lend itself to a fight like we might see from Wanderlei Silva; Machida doesn’t look to end the fight each moment he is in there. But there’s something to be said for a style that is not only entirely effective, but is so effective that we have yet to see Machida take any sort of real damage in five UFC fights. The only other guy you can say that about (off the top of my head) is a guy I like to call Anderson Silva.
Once again, Nate and I are on the exact same page in terms of fantasy booking. Machida v. Thiago Silva seems like a no brainer to me for all the reasons Nate mentioned, but additionally it would eliminate one contender who cannot speak English (thus hindering his marketability) while creating an incredibly strong top contender. If Machida wins, we’ll have seen him defeat a who’s who of contenders in the UFC en route to a title match. If Silva wins, his style is more engaging to the casual fan. From the hardcore fan’s perspective, it would just be a great test for each competitor. I can’t imagine the fight not happening at this point.
IMHO…Thiago Silva has not earned the right to fight Machida.
by Tha Realness on May 25, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
As a longtime Lyoto fan I’ll just say this… its not running away, its redirecting energy. There is no wasted movement in his game.
BTW here is the REAL gif of the night:
Here's the thing
I don’t think anyone can dispute that Machida is a gifted athlete. That point has been made very well here. The problem comes when he avoids contact, and action, for minutes at a time. Just because you’re elusive and gifted does not mean you need to stay 6 feet away from your opponent. This is about entertainment after all, and the fight would have more entertaining if Machida had tried to finish Tito. There were countless times when Tito was badly out of position and susceptible to attack, and Machida continued to back away, passing up the opportunity to strike. That’s where I had a problem with this fight. I’m not saying he’s Kalib Starnes. I am saying passing up opportunities to strike an off balance and overmatched opponent is boring and opens you up to criticism, fair criticism, in my opinion.
You can say people aren’t knowledgeable if they don’t like Machida, but this isn’t a fringe sport any longer, and accepting new fans is something you’re going to have to get used to, otherwise you come off as elitist.
So you're saying...
that MMA is entertainment and not a sport? In a sport you should employ whatever gameplan is best suited for YOU to get a win. Some guys can be exciting while still executing their gameplan, others are not able to do so while still playing a winning game. Machida’s gameplan is to control the pace and pick spots when he can hit without taking damage.
To answer an earlier question posed here (How do you control the pace if all you do is move sideways to get out of the way?) The question is the answer in that case. He does not want to be fighting going backward at an all action pace…he wants the fight to be slower and allow him to be the one deciding when to engage and when to inflict damage. That is the definition of controling the pace.
Is it elitest to say that people aren’t knowledgeable if they don’t understand Machida’s style? Maybe. But still…if you don’t understand a major technical aspect of a sport…that would show a shortcoming in the level of knowledge you have.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And to expand on the entertainment aspect some more…
Don’t hold fighters to a higher standard than you hold other sports participants to. The Spurs were killing teams in the NBA for years with a “boring” brand of basketball. No one was telling them to start going for some classic high flying, showtime business…because it is about winning. And they were doing that.
There has been no time yet where Machida’s style and gameplanning has led to anything other than a win. So from the purest standpoint on which you can judge a sporting participant…Machida is perfect. Now I understand you want to watch someone who just comes forward throwing hands with no regard for what happens. But that isn’t the way everyone can or should fight. Bonnar, Penn, Franklin, Soko, Ortiz. The dude is a winner.
It is a sport first. and entertainment second. If you start holding it against winners that they aren’t winning in a flashy enough way…you’re getting into pro wrestling territory.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
“It is a sport first. and entertainment second. If you start holding it against winners that they aren’t winning in a flashy enough way…you’re getting into pro wrestling territory.”
or if you are so fascinated by the sport at the expense of entertainment then you have amateur wrestling….which is really big in Iowa…. and is generally box of death anywhere and everywhere else. There’s a reason all those college wrestler’s flee the sport like rat’s off a ship…. I imagine that machida fans are also big fan’s of Jake O’Brien
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like O'Brien
...which is because I don’t think he has a very well rounded game. He is a much more flawed fighter than Machida.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I did address it...
I don’t find every fight to be thrilling simply because it is sport. I find Machida fights to be exciting and a fantastic example of the “sport” aspect of the game. I do watch amateur wrestling events when they are on cable, and I watch submission wrestling events any chance I can get. But I find a fighter executing a gameplan perfectly to BE exciting. And the fact that he is winning makes it even better for the sporting aspect in my eyes.
I do not, however, find watching Jake O’Brien to be exciting as his limitations force him into a lay and pray attack. Machida is able to deliver BECAUSE of his well rounded game…not in spite of his lack thereof (see O’Brien).
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you didn't, at all
You talked about the Spurs (I didn’t). You insinuated I criticized Machida’s gameplan and recommended he throw caution to the wind and have a slugfest ( I didn’t). And now you’re talking about Jake O’Brien, whom I never mentioned and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Very weak.
Let me make it simple for you: Machida passed up easy shots at Ortiz in favor of backpedaling far beyond Ortiz’s reach. His gameplan was to be elusive and to counter when the opportunity arose. He didn’t do the second part of that as well as he should have and it made for a less satisfying result. In fact, because of this, he nearly got submitted by an inferior opponent in a fight that he dominated.
I like Machida. I think he’s incredibly gifted. But rather than get defensive, I look at what criticisms of him are, and see that there’s some weight to what people say.
Being better than Ortiz is not the same as being the best he can be. He came up short of that last night.
by jebushchrist on May 25, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The O’Brien thing was aimed at Rob, not you. I misread and thought you are the one who brought it up. My bad.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Along with Brent I hate O’brien but am pro-Machida. They are on completely different levels of skill.
The comparison between the two is dramatically unfounded and I wouldn’t have expected this from you.
“I find a fighter executing a gameplan perfectly to BE exciting.” – Brent
Jake o’brien executed his gameplan perfectly against Heath Herring but I doubt that brent found that fight exciting… I find the two to be similar because they use one facet of their skill – o-brien’s takedowns and machida’s footwork – control the fight to the exclusion of almost every other weapon and generally bore me to tears… O’brien had takedown after takedown on Heath but wouldn’t even try to ground and pound and when he had his back didn’t throw strikes or try for a choke. Machida used his foot work to avoid, retreat and make tito look bad..but in the same respect his total lack of willingness to engage was kinda like o’brien’s unwillingness to do anything other than sit in heath’s guard and get riding time.
Obrien and machida are both talented and skilled in their own particular areas…. but neither use them in ways that are very entertaining to me…..hope that clarifies my comparison of the two, simco
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
Why don’t you point to where I said it wasn’t a sport? Then point to where I complained about his gameplan. Then point to where I said I “want to watch someone who just comes forward throwing hands with no regard for what happens”.
Why don’t you read my comment instead of going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what I said, then I think we can have some discourse here.
Well
As a big basketball fan for years, this is no different than people hating the spurs. I hated them just like everyone else. Sure they were good, and they deserved their wins, but it doesn’t change the fact that it sucked balls to watch them fight and I would do something else if one of their games was on.
Last night was dramatic simply because it was Tito’s last fight, and the last minute really turned up the heat. I actually think the minute or so of dirty boxing exposed a weakness in Machida’s game to be exploited in the future, and I was standing just like everyone else for it.
He obviously won fairly, but let’s please not act like he kicked the shit out of tito. He cut him up a bit, but his biggest injury before the last minute of the fight was probably a leg cramp from walking around.
UFC has far more of an entertainment aspect to it than any other mainstream sport, because it is based on PPV revenue and does not have an established audience that can survive years of boredom. This is why Liddell will get a title shot if he wins one more, it is why Couture got an immediate title shot coming out of retirement, and it is why Tito-Ken was used to determine a title shot in 2006. The fans of UFC come from the 18-34 demo and primarily watch it for the fun and excitement it provides. Machida just doesn’t do it for the huge amounts in the audience that boo him and the people at home who hate watching him.
Great points. Tito was winning round three before that massive knee. The dirty boxing was nice, and even after suffering that huge knee, he was active from the guard like we’ve never seen Tito do before. I think if he hadn’t tried to make the transition from triangle to the armbar when Lyoto flipped over, we’d be having a whole different discussion today.
I don’t hate watching Machida, because I certainly appreciate his skillset. But I’d watch any Wanderlei Silva fight over him any day of the week. There’s something to be said for the spirit of trying to consistently put on exciting fights.
You’re right on a couple notes: 1) the dirty boxing that Tito got to use definitely showed a bit of a chink in Machida’s armor, which will be interesting to see in the future if someone can really use that against him. 2) Machida definitely didn’t do it for those in the audience that booed him. But I still think that was classless by the audience. The guy won fair and square, he had a game plan, he executed it. He was the better fighter that night. If the audience won’t give Machida respect when he has deservedly earned it by now, chances are they may never give him that respect until he starts knocking people out and making people bleed. In that case, I guess it’s unfortunate but that’s how it goes. You’re definitely right when you say that Chuck would get a title shot, or Couture, or whatever that is more personable and marketable. Machida is hard to market.
The only big knock I would personally put against Machida, is his lack of killer instinct. He had all sorts of opportunities in the second round, but he wouldn’t pull the trigger. Perhaps if he fine tunes that, he may become more of an exciting fighter. I mean, the reaction from the audience when Machida crumpled Tito with that knee is probably all the evidence one would need to show what the audience is looking for.
I think Machida is awesome, but I also appreciate what others are saying about him and why most would prefer to watch a guy like Silva, who usually doesn’t care if he wins or loses, only that he puts on an exciting fight. Machida doesn’t want to lose. I don’t blame him.
All in all, there is something to be said for a guy who not only has never lost, beating the likes of Bonnar, Penn, Franklin, Ortiz, etc., but has never really been beaten up or been damaged either. Since his style is so effective, could you imagine the reaction from hardcore fans when someone is finally able to beat him?
Anyone who thinks Lyoto is a bad fighter, must also believe that Floyd Mayweather is a bad fighter.
Both employ styles which exist on elusiveness and ability to not get hit. Neither are known as huge strikers, but both have the ability to end a fight.
This isn’t ALL about being the most entertaining or most exciting fighter, it is about winning every time you step out there.
If anyone is upset about the amount of action in this fight, call Tito, he is the one with the weak game plan that couldn’t get the take downs. People complained about Tito being boring before, now they act like he is some sort of striking legend. Tito is a hall of famer and based his game on wrestling and gnp.
I agree, that this is a topic which will divide the fans.
"They said you was hung!!"
"And they was RIGHT!"
Machida is Poetry in Motion
There were moments where the trailer trash in me wanted more action, I admit. But the joy I felt when Machida moved away, moved away, then struck the opening and then quickly dodged the counter was incredible. The only other currently active fighter that I feel that from is Anderson Silva. Bas Rutten had some of that back in the day. It’s like he telepathically knows what’s coming and avoids it. I’ve always liked Machida, but that fight was straight-up beautiful. By the way, Tito almost had the triangle, that’s true, but Lyoto just about had his ass finished except for the bell. Ten more seconds in that round and Tito would have never had the chance to land that triangle anyway. I tried my best to be objective about the fight, because I find Tito annoying as shit. He’s like my 9 month-old who just screams when he doesn’t get his way. Then he whines about how he doesn’t get respect. I will forevermore root against Tito. Plus, I don’t know what’s with the ESL lately, but Tito is incredibly poor with his speaking ability. I think all that time with Jenna is making him even dumber, if that’s possible. Anyway, Lyoto for President.
Immovable Object, Irresistible Force, Foundations of Drama
I said my piece on it earlier, but I’ll just say I think he is fine. I think you can look at it two ways: 1) This isn’t boxing. You are allowed clinches and takedowns. If Tito is upset by this style, then he can just get better at shots. Or alternately, Machida’s timidity may be his very undoing against a very aggressive clinch fighter (Wanderlei style) when he is swarmed and freaks out. Either way, I think it unfair to label good defense as ‘poor fighting’. 2) Though I cringe at the Spurs example above (grrr… I’m a Timmy hater) it is appropriate. Hey, how about instead of hyping up bullshit fake drama with smacktalking to make MMA more like fantasy wrestling man-opera, we have fighters that are respectful and let this be the drama? What I mean is even if people start rooting against Machida, that’s OK—now he’s the ‘villain’ of sorts, right? I’ve see the comments even here like: “I hate it that he is ‘boring’, but now I’m really curious to who can pick him apart”. That’s still good for the sport, IMHO, and better than building media personalities that never fight but always talk.
Basically bum-fighting is always bloody and exciting (and dangerous). If people want to watch stupid bullrushing and bad defense there is always that. People never tire of watching some random idiot get kicked in the nuts while distracted. But pro MMA is only about what works best, I think, shown simply by who wins. Athleticism + good and well rounded technique. After all that, yeah, I’ll grin and cheer to when someone gets in there and puts his lights out too, but in part because I’ll know how damn difficult it must be to do it. :)
by swarmofkillermonkeys on May 25, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
Lay 'n Pray: The Stand-Up Version
There’s obviously no way you can’t recognize the immense amount of ability Machida has, but watching him fight is boring at best. If Tito were able to get him down and control him but not really do anything on the ground, the boards would be filled with how boring Tito is, lay and pray sucks, blah blah blah. And at some point the two fighters would have been stood up. Watching Machida fight is the same thing as lay and pray while standing except in this case when there’s a lack of action they don’t put them on the ground to get things moving again. I don’t see how it’s any different.
On a different note, if Machida ever does get the belt, he and the UFC better hope for some good undercard fights or co-main events to sell the PPVs.
So...
were you to be the best and brightest person at your job. But Jim the moron two cubes down is better at “selling himself” you’d be fine with him getting the promotion with the sweet 50k raise? I mean…hey…people would hate to sit through those meetings you’d have to run.
It either IS a sport or it IS NOT. The best fighters should be afforded the opportunity to perform against the best. If he wins the belt then there will be built in crowd heat for every fight since everyone seems to hate him so much. I love that Soko with all the hype got straight blasted by Machida but one fight later (in a fight in which he almost had Tito finished at least twice) Machida is a guy who is boring and can’t finish fights.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Quite
Nowhere in there did I imply that if he earns a title shot (which at this point looks like he’s well on track to do), that he shouldn’t be afforded that opportunity (to fight for the belt). And if he wins, he should certainly be recognized as the undisputed champion. That doesn’t mean the UFC won’t have a marketing issue for PPVs on their hands. A Machida headlined PPV won’t sell tickets like a Liddell, Couture, Penn, St. Pierre, etc. would. Your statement about having a built in crowd for every fight because people hate him is a bit of a reach. People hate Tito. People don’t hate Machida, (or at least I don’t). People are indifferent to Machida and that’s where the problem lies. With that in mind, I wouldn’t be willing to throw down $50 to watch him win or lose since I’m mostly indifferent to him other than thinking he’s boring. Instead, I’ll just swing by here and read the recap for free. I doubt I’m alone in that.
he’ll be akin to Mayweather….....who made his biggest bank in his career off of fights (mayweather, hatton) where they weren’t paying to see him win but paying to see the other guy beat him
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Some Will
I definitely think some will buy a PPV to watch whomever beat Machida like others did to watch Hatton, et al. beat up Mayweather. The PPV shortfall, though, is that Mayweather is a polarizing figure; Machida isn’t. Following the Machida fight and before the Silva destruction, I made a comment to those with me about the marketability of a potential Jardine v Machida title fight. Both are good fighters, but neither is a big draw on their own (or together). Just goes back to feelings of indifference. Outside of that, I’ll agree to disagree.
jardine vs machida? that sounds almost as intriguing as Machida vs Rashad Evans…...lol
i agree with you about the mayweather/machida bit........ mayweather is excellent in the role of the heel.......machida is kinda vanilla, not engendering much feeling either waylet me try again…... Machida as John Ruiz when he had the hvyweight title… you don’t hate the guy, you just hate watching him…...
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude...
...no. Ruiz was a brutal fighter. He didn’t have the SKILL that Machida has. Ruiz was a guy who was just crap in the boxing ring.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The reality is that what you said happens all the time. Person A gets the raise even though Person B gets better sales numbers, because person A gets along better with bosses, is well-liked by employees, and people that have worked with the company seem to like him more. There are other factors that matter besides winning, and that includes entertaining people, especially when the entire sport’s existence depends upon getting fans to pay 50 dollars to watch fights.
It's maybe the biggest problem...
...in the UFC right now. If you want to talk about being the home of the best fighters…you can’t put an invisible barrier up saying “You must be this exciting to get a title shot” because that contradicts the “best fighter” thing. And I’m acknowledging the reality of that situation…I was just posing it in a “how would you feel if YOU were that guy.
But I’ve always been a big “this is a business” guy at the same time. So I have to acknowledge the reality in the situation. Maybe it is just that I honestly (and not just in a “i appreciate the sport and no one else does” kind of way) really like watching Machida do his thing.
I think the reason I appreciate Machida so much goes back to my history with boxing. I grew up a huge fan of boxing and was taught by people who had been boxers how to appreciate counter punching and footwork. So I can watch guys like Machida and appreciate the “doing all the little things” aspect more than a lot of people do. I seriously will sit and watch a fighter’s footwork during fights. It isn’t a matter of “understanding the game more” it is just that I like some things that other people could care less about.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually I was indifferent to Machida but after his fight I guess I’m on the pro-Machida bandwagon. If I had no idea who Machida was prior to last night I may have been part of the “he’s boring” crowd but after watching some of his previous fights and the way he counters and basically neutralizes anything his opponent tries I was intrigued.
As I pointed out to some of my friends who I watched the event with (who were mostly annoyed with Machida’s performance) every takedown attempt by Tito was either stuffed or completely avoided, he landed more strikes, got the only takedown in the fight, and landed the kidney shot in the third round. No one will ever compare him to Wandy as far as excitement goes but he is absolutely a fighter who’s style I enjoy to watch. There’s just something about making your opponent seem absolutely helpless while landing more strikes and imposing your gameplan on them that just seems dominating.
I wasn’t a Machida fan until this fight. I was really impressed. Ortiz couldn’t land a single punch or kick in the first round. Ortiz was consistently flailing at air as Machida easily moved out of the way and peppered him with shots. Machida clearly outclassed Tito Ortiz and while that’s not the accomplishment it once was, it’s still pretty damn good. I can’t wait to see him fight again.
Pro Machida getting KTFO
Defending Machida’s “fighting” style doesn’t make you eliteist, or an MMA snob. It just means you have more money than you know what to do with. Machida isn’t elusive, or impressive. Retreating literally the entire circumference of the ring isn’t a style it’s called running away. If that’s what you want to spend your time and money watching, you have to much of it.
3 things more aggressive than “The Dragon’s” fighting style:
Roller Derby
Cats
Meryl Streep
Ortiz was an idiot for not coming in with a game plan to beat a guy that never goes forward. That said, beating him, doesn’t make Machida a good fighter. It’s hard to remember the last decent performance Tito has made. Probably his second fight against Shamrock, and even that, was against Shamrock so…
While extremely nerdy, an accurate comparison can be made between Machida, and playing Halo. He’s the guy in the game that gets into a deathmatch or slayer, and then hides, or avoids everyone in the game for 15 minutes and at some point, kills a guy from accross the level with the sniper rifle and then hides until the game is over. Yeah, he got the win, but he wasted everyone’s time in doing so. Usually in games like that, people get bored, and quit, or they start doing something other than playing the game, and the same thing will happen with MMA if his “style” becomes a trend.
To me, he’s going out and doing the bare minimum to collect a purse. I won’t pay again to watch one of his fights. I’m glad there are all of you “pro-machida” folks though. As far as I’m concerned, they can put the rest of his fights, along with Tito’s, Tim Sylvia’s, and Arlovski’s on the same PPV. That way I can not buy them. Just wait until they give him a title shot. Then you can watch 25 minutes of salsa dancing instead of just 15. You can break down the intricacies of how Machida is able to play tag for 25 minutes straight.
Everyone should make sure they’ve watched Machida’s fight with BJ Penn, where BJ jumps up to heavyweight. It’s a disgrace. If Anderson Silva fought Jens Pulver, and leaned and clinched his way to a decision without inflicting any damage, they wouldn’t be calling the spider “elusive.”
Everyone can spare me their comparisons to Mayweather in boxing or the Spurs in basketball. Boxing is in the toilet. There is a reason MMA is where it is right now, and I can promise you it never would have happened if the major promotions hung their hats on someone like Machida, rather than Rampage, or the Iceman or the Prodigy. True Liddell is good at not getting hit. The similarities between he and Machida end there. Period.
Here’s a Machida fight I would pay to see: Vitor Belfort in his prime steamrolling “the Dragon” through the walls of the cage. Too bad they fight out of the same gym. Probably has a lot to do with Vitor going down the drain.
If that first round were ten seconds longer, we seriously could have avoided responses like that. He picked Ortiz apart, picked him up, slammed him and was raining blows on him when time expired…
The first round wasn’t 10 seconds longer. The fight was 15 minutes, and you’re telling me, if only there were 10 more seconds, Machida would have won, and we would all love him. FALSE. Machida is such a smart, tactical fighter with an unbeatable game plan to end the fight, but he couldn’t have executed 10 seconds earlier, or again, for the 10 minutes following the first round? Come on.
Tito has no drive, no quickness, and no edge anymore. Unless Dana White decides to step into the ring and sign a contract, Tito might not beat another opponent not named Shamrock.
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