UFC 84 Wrap Up
by Michael Rome on May 25, 2008 1:17 AM EDT
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24 comments
--Palhares and Carwin are both the real deal. Palhares looked tremendous on the ground, and Wellisch is no joke. Carwin is known for his wrestling, so it meant a lot to win this first fight standing.
--Tito loses, but he will still go onto the market nearly as valuable as he was last week. Great promo at the end thanking everyone, I'm glad he didn't get cheap and attack Dana. That near-submission at the end was nuts, but he was just too high to pull it off.
--Machida looks like he is going to be unbeatable. He has tremendous takedown defense and power to go along with his elusiveness. Who is next for Machida? It's really hard to say. Wand is the match that makes sense but we won't see that one. Quinton v. Machida is a nightmare for Dana.
--Wanderlei winning was an amazing moment. The bar I was in went berserk, and I'm guessing the arena did too. Just a brutal ass kicking, and I'd really like to see him just fight Rampage right now.
--BJ clearly wants GSP, and this fight didn't really do anything to prove to me that he would win or lose that one. I'd really like to see him AT LEAST defend against the winner of Huerta/Florian before moving up, but he may insist on it. Dana is clearly opposed based on the conference call, so I suspect we won't see that one until 2009.
--They did not announce Lesnar/Herring tonight, and Lesnar was at the show, so maybe there is another option.
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I was wondering about the Lesnar thing. They ran the ad for the show and didn’t mention him at all. I’m curious where this ends up going. Herring is a good choice but maybe there is something else going on.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 25, 2008 1:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
First of all – jemaleddin was right, I was wrong. BJ did give Sherk a beatdown.
That said, the Penn/Sherk fight looked NOTHING like I expected. I fully expected to see Sherk start the takedowns by at least the 3rd round. Don’t really understand why he didn’t. Penn looked like he was gassing by the 3rd round. Oh well, I guess now Penn will just ditch the lightweight belt that so many fighters work their entire lives for to go up and fight GSP.
Did you guys notice Machida’s ground game in the few seconds the fight went to the ground? In a matter of seconds, he has Tito in a crucifix and was going to town. If the round had not been over, I think he would have ended up getting a stoppage.
(the poster formerly known as holden636)
by TheFightJournal on May 25, 2008 1:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually..
I don’t think I was any more right about that fight: I really expected a fight MUCH more like the Penn/Stevenson bout. NO ground-work? No choke? A kick-boxing match, heavy on the boxing? Never would have guessed it. I thought BJ had the edge on the boxing, but at the end of every round as Sherk looked more and more abused, it was clear that Sherk just didn’t have the reach to compete with BJ.
And yeah, I don’t know who was helping Sherk with his gameplan, but going for the GSP-patented, “beat the other guy on his strengths” thing only works if you’re GSP. Sherk really needed to do just what he did against Franca: take BJ down, avoid the subs and grind out a finish. He only went for one half-hearted takedown, so I don’t know how he could have decided against that. Was he just afraid of BJ’s ground game? Or did he actually break his hand and think he was better off standing?
Let’s hope that Dana makes BJ fight a couple defenses before moving up. If nothing else, it’ll make a GSP/BJ rematch that much more exciting. (And it’s not like GSP has spent a great deal of time defending his belt either!)
Machida impressed me – I still think his avoidance strategy is boring, but that crucifix against Tito impressed the hell out of me. WOW was I wrong about Wandy: unless his piss-test comes back full of drugs, the man has clearly gotten his groove back. Seems that working with Randy is still the smart move.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
by jemaleddin on May 26, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict a lot of forums and bloggers calling Machida a boring fighter tomorrow but the dude made me a fan of his tonight.
by Tonley on May 25, 2008 1:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
let me get the ball tolling here then…. i’m as hardcore a mma guy as you can get but i would rather stick a fork in my eye than watch machida fight…. no doubt he’s talented, but if i wanted to watch a guy dance away from contact for most of a fight i’d watch floyd mayweather…. i take that back….. i don’t enjoy mayweather much either…...i’d hate to see the buy rates if Machida ever gets the 205 strap
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t want every fight to go down like that, but I also appreciate a smart, well executed game plan. Fighters should work to their strengths and avoid their opponents strengths. I just think this was a bad match up stylistically.
"They said you was hung!!"
"And they was RIGHT!"
by BJJDenver on May 25, 2008 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree! Machida made a true fan out of me also. It was an odd love/hate relationship with him this fight. I was so frustrated watching him fight, cause he was so elusive, but damn is he an intelligent fighter! not only that, but he shrugged off Tito’s takedown attempts, gets side control and nearly gets a crucifixion at the end of the first, hurts Tito bad with that knee in the third. I was jumping out of my seat at the end though when Tito had that sub attempt. Jesus. I thought it was over, but thankfully Machida pulled it out.
People will definitely bash Machida tomorrow, but they don’t know what they’re talking about. Machida hurt Tito, had him cut and bleeding, and beat Tito at his own game. Evasion is not running away. What Starnes did a month ago was running away. What Machida did, was execute a game plan to perfection. Until the last thirty seconds, that is. The only strike against Machida I’ll say is his lack of killer instinct sometimes. In the first and third he jumped on Tito when he had him down, but there were times in the second I felt there were windows for Machida to really take it to Tito.
Anyway, great night of fights.
by pud333 on May 25, 2008 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don’t mind watching a different style either. But then again, I didn’t mind watching Gracie fight from his back for 20 minutes straight either. That one (some say boring) fight changed the sport. Some fights will be exciting some won’t. I’m OK with that; so long as the focus is on combat and not glam and hype.
Not everyone can be Wandy, as awesome as he is. Any more structural changes to “make MMA more palatable/exciting” to people that aren’t even interested in the MA part… I just hope not. IMHO, the MLS went through the same thing with changing rules to make soccer “palatable” to Americans. In the end, they just went back to normal rules and left it the heck alone… and then the fans came to them.
Speaking of Wandy… you guys probably know… who’s next? Jackson would be great, but then I’d really like to see him just once more against Chuck too. Silva was really off that last fight against him, I think stomping Lidell in a rematch would do him good mentally. Then there is Henderson. Or will Henderson and/or Wandy drop down? Man… if Wanderlei does drop, I think every Middleweight not named Silva is gonna do so hard thinking about alternatives. Anyway, just let everyone fight the style that suits them best! To me, that is the whole point here, and why boxing sucks. Got a dancer and don’t like it? Then take him down and mount him. If you can’t, and he picks you off a punch at a time, then you need to get better, no?
by swarmofkillermonkeys on May 25, 2008 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s all about technique. Machida is a great technician. Even when he’s evading, he’s constantly doing something. All those fakes he threw, like the low and high kick combos and the fakes with his hands – no wonder other fighters get confused when they fight him. Sometimes those kicks were more flashy than anything else, but that’s besides the point. It’s all about getting the other fighter to think constantly. Always worried about any possibility. Much like Gracie on his back. The more I watch MMA and get educated, the more I am appreciating technique.
As far as Wandy dropping down, it really depends on what this Jardine fight did for his confidence. I mean, he’s been fighting at around that weight class for so long, but it would be nice to see him take on the middleweights.
With Chuck and Rampage, honestly, I’m not interested in seeing another match up between the two. I think Rampage has Chuck’s number, the way Chuck has Tito’s, or GSP has Hughes’. Sometimes one style just shuts down another. Unless you’re Machida, whose style seemingly shuts down everything, haha. Still, no one is unbeatable.
by pud333 on May 25, 2008 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more I watch MMA and get educated, the more I am appreciating technique.
Exactly, exactly! I mean, I’m not super smart about MMA yet, and missed a few years there, but years ago that fight clicked on that very same thought in my head. It will with others too, if Dana and the others would just be patient; I worry hasty moves and questionable decisions will set it back. It can be a new and different model; its own thing. You see that with the crowd. If they are lead to think they have to see flash over technique they boo, which I guess at least 3 of us think was unwarranted in the Tito loss. Some will get educated, and learn to love the sport. Some will never get it, aren’t interested in getting it, and honestly—you don’t need those fans.
I guess you’re also right about confidence. That interview with Wanderlei I read where he talked about maybe dropping down was probably right near his third loss. He seemed to think that he would come up short (reach wise) against all the others now in the class. Least I think that’s what he meant by “all these guys now bigger than me”. But he oddly seemed really reluctant to fight his buddy Anderson. For being the “axe murderer” he actually seems like a really nice guy, maybe even too nice. Guess that means he stays put now, where all the action is currently.
by swarmofkillermonkeys on May 25, 2008 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was pulling for Tito, and I was ready to jump out of my chair when he slapped on the triangle. But I think he went out in respectable fashion.
Very pleased to see Wandy get back on track, Sokou get his first UFC win and of course, to see BJ annihilate Sherk.
by Popetastic on May 25, 2008 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahahahhahhaah. That was classic. We were dying laughing at this.
by Popetastic on May 25, 2008 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DITTO!!!
"They said you was hung!!"
"And they was RIGHT!"
by BJJDenver on May 25, 2008 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jm3j_ufc-84-thiago-silva-vs-antonio-mend_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jm6a_wanderlei-silva-vs-keith-jardine-vi_sport
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 4:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Penn vs Sherk
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jmfh_ufc-84-ill-will-sean-sherk-vs-bj-pe_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jmr7_ufc-84-ill-will-sean-sherk-vs-bj-pe_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jn7x_ufc-84-ill-will-sean-sherk-vs-bj-pe_sport
by robnashville on May 25, 2008 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I won’t deny it, I really don’t like watching Machida fight, but there is an appeal about seeing who it is that can figure him out and beat him. I figure it will have to be a very high end striker, he also looked like he may be slightly vulnerable to dirty boxing and the thai clinch if employed against him in the future.
I like watching Wand win, so I don’t want to see him fight Machida, but at the same time…that match seems like the right one to do.
by Michael Rome on May 25, 2008 4:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
best card so far this year?
Was this the best fight card so far this year?
Plenty of very relevant fights, one title fight, lots of action in every fight, lots of hype and drama, and good knockouts and submissions. Also they showed 4 undercard fights (9 fights in all!).
Interestingly, I think the runner up for best card this year is UFC 80, which was also headlined by BJ Penn.
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MMA Ratings
by kamander on May 25, 2008 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing about BJ
...is that even if you don’t like him, he puts on a fight. We can debate the merits of Machida’s strategies all day long, but BJ is always going to be more fun to watch that most of the fighters out there. ESPECIALLY if he stays at lightweight where his size and strength advantages really outclass anyone else in the division.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
by jemaleddin on May 26, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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