UFC 87: GSP vs. Fitch; Coleman Injured
by Nick Thomas on May 22, 2008 6:40 PM EDT
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PrintThe Ultimate Fighting Championship’s initial trip to Minnesota on August 9th just got bigger with today’s signing of the UFC Welterweight Title bout between Champion Georges St-Pierre and number one contender Jon Fitch, which will headline the UFC 87 card at Target Center.A couple of us called this main event on Tuesday. Now it's time to guess who will be replacing Coleman to fight Lesnar.
In other action on the UFC 87 card, heavyweight sensation Brock Lesnar returns home for a pivotal bout in his rise up the UFC ranks. Lesnar was originally scheduled to face UFC Hall of Famer Mark Coleman on August 9th, but a knee injury has forced ‘The Hammer’ to withdraw from the show. Lesnar’s opponent will be announced shortly.
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Watch your mouth!
I believe Antoni Hardonk will fill in with a quick turn around from his UFC 85 bout. He’s taylor-made for Lesnar, and the short prep time combined with any fatigue or minor injuries he may suffer against Neil Wain will make him a fantastic opponent to help build Brock with.
But keep Lesnar far, far away from anyone who has ever heard of Jiu Jitsu for the next year or so.
Did anybody else see the video on CP today of Coleman saying he’d drop to 205 to avoid fighting Lesnar? What a convenient injury!
I’d like to see Lesnar (Swedish for: “no-skill steroid-junkie”) face some top competition – no more broken down fighters like Frank Mir or Mark Coleman: let’s put him in there with Nog, man! The sooner he’s exposed, the sooner we can be done with him.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
Ignorance is bliss!
Brock has insane potential in the MMA world. It doesn’t matter who he faces and it doesn’t matter if he wins or loses. The fact is he is not just some street bum or just a WWE entertainer but a real decorated wrestler. Shamrock was in the WWE/F he must be a fraud too huh?
It still remains that Brock is a tenacious scary fighter and as long as he brings it Dana will keep him on board because he will never put on a boring show and just try to win by being safe. Remember Dana would rather you fight and lose than not fight and win. As we saw with Mir, Brock is afraid of no man, even when he should be a little with Mir’s guard. Mir should not be the number one contender but he is not some broken down fighter. The guy is capable of beating anyone in the Heavyweight division.
by Edge Crusher on May 23, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused
Which of Brocks’s 2 fights clued you in that he’ll never “just try to win by being safe”? Which combat skills did he show to prove that he has “insane potential”? There’s no way to know that, because he’s still too green. I never said that he was a “fraud,” nor did I bring up the WWE crap. I said that he was a “no-skill steroid junkie.” Which aspects of his submission defense, his striking or his neck size would lead you to believe otherwise?
And while there are plenty of decorated wrestles who’ve done very well in MMA, there are even more that never figured out the transition. Being great in wrestling doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot unless you figure out the striking and submission grappling parts of the game (unless you’re so good that you can lay’n’pray your way to a decision – does that sound fun to anyone else?). Brock clearly hasn’t done that yet – not to say that he won’t, but he hasn’t.
And I don’t know what you’re saying at the end – are you saying that Mir is capable of beating anyone in the HW division? Or Brock? Luckily, I don’t agree with either of those assessments, so I can just say, how? Who? WHAT?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
OK
You are right you didn’t say the things about the WWE that was fired at some other comments. But it irratates me that you think Mir is so washed up. There is not one guy he could not submit in the heavyweight division in the MMA world. Don’t get me wrong I do not think Mir deserves a title fight after one fight against a guy who was 1-0, that is just asinine! And Lesnar’s Jits is coming along fine. A good friend of mine instructor rolled with him for about 3 days straight and Lesnar is an absolute sponge for learning (from what I hear). Is he world class BJJ no, but I guess I don’t see how you couldn’t think the guy doesn’t have insane potential. He is not only big, strong and fast but a great athlete as well. As far as the steroids go, what a canned response! He has been tested I will grant that he might have done steroids in the past but is not anymore so get over it. Anytime a big guy that is muscular and can move comes along the haters come out with the steroid card.
And yes he did show that he will never just do a lay and pray or try to just squeak out a win. His obvious gameplan against Mir was to take a great BJJ guy to his back. So, a little over confident right now I would say yes about Brock but it shows that he is scared of no one. Brock goes into the cage and will try to impose his will, weather he does or not is irrelevant to the concept of him not putting on a boring fight because that will always make for a good fight. and watch out once he learns the game a little more I truly believe he will be a devastating force!
by Edge Crusher on May 23, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
There is not one guy he could not submit in the heavyweight division in the MMA world.
Except Nog. And I’ll be proven right soon enough. :-)
Here’s the thing: I like Mir. I thought he was a jackass back when he had the belt, but after watching how humble and cool he was doing color commentary for the WEC, I started to really like him. And watching him expose Lesnar? BEAUTIFUL, especially because so many other people were afraid to take him on, and almost NOBODY thought he was capable of doing it.
He has been tested I will grant that he might have done steroids in the past but is not anymore so get over it.
As I mentioned below: steroids aren’t like drinking or drugs where they wear off: if you’re using them to build muscle, you get to keep the muscle after you’re done! So Brock will never be fighting anyone straight-up while he’s carrying around all that muscle mass.
My point isn’t that he doesn’t have any potential – it’s that we shouldn’t be getting all het up about a guy with 2 fights, no matter what his pedigree is. Especially not after he lost to Frank Mir – a guy still not living up to his potential.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
man…you people are coming across pretty ignorant with Lesnar. The guy has tremendous wrestling skills and was very close to finishing the guy the UFC is now treating as a #1 contender. Let him build up a little big and he’ll be a crazy force in the game.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 22, 2008 11:51 PM EDT reply actions
That should read "little bit"
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 23, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Again...
Where’s the evidence that “he’ll be a crazy force in the game”? Wrestling isn’t everything. I’d sure like to see something else out of him.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
Dito
His striking was absolutely sad. I thought after two years he’d at least have developed sharp strikes, but not be able to put it together with foot work and combos. He was neither, just TUF-level.
And on the ground
Did you see how mechanical his hammer-fists to the back of the head were? He was just rotating his shoulder instead of putting his whole arm/back/chest/abs into it. He could EASILY have knocked Mir the fuck out if he had just landed one of those well, given his giant muscle mass.
This is why all that “he’s got potential/he’s a great athlete” stuff drives me nuts: if he’s so great, why is it that only his wrestling looks good? If he’s such a sponge, why is he tapping to subs that even TUF-guys would know how to work through? If he’s got all this drive and heart, why isn’t he laying off the weights (dude, you’re strong enough – that’s not the issue!) and doing more sparring?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
Yeah, avoiding constant sweep attempts from a former world champion is childs play in your second ever MMA match.
I love it
Before the fight, all these Lesnar fans were talking about how he was going to smash Mir and how Mir was never the same after the accident, and really, Mir was just some mid-level scrub. But now that Mir kicked his ass, it’s all blackbelt-this and former world champion-that. Too funny.
You guys like Brock. I get that. And while it isn’t a 1-1 match, it seems like most of his supporters are also wrestling fans. So I can see where this comes from: you like the guy, he did some cool stuff in this other arena, you want to support him. But let’s not pretend that he’s the second coming of Randy here. The guy has potential, but needs a lot of work.
And the fact that he’s been a steroid user means that I’m not ever going to support him. (See: Franca, Sherk, Sylvia, Barnett, Royce…)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
Good points, man
Before the fight, all these Lesnar fans were talking about how he was going to smash Mir and how Mir was never the same after the accident, and really, Mir was just some mid-level scrub. But now that Mir kicked his ass, it’s all blackbelt-this and former world champion-that. Too funny.
I think it can also be that Mir got smashed by Marcio Cruz, showing poor scrambling/composure and conditioning, leading people to wonder if he was traumatized from the accident beyond return. Then he shows that he’s not -keeping his cool while subbing an NCAA champ- and Mir earns everyones respect back and we learn that Brock can’t cut it in the submission game at the UFC level. Nothing changes whether Mir was a black belt or former champ. No one knew whether he still had it. The only was to find that out was to have the fight.
And the fact that he’s been a steroid user means that I’m not ever going to support him. (See: Franca, Sherk, Sylvia, Barnett, Royce…)
I can totally understand where you’re coming from with that, though. Although seeing what he looked like when he was on that stuff, and the world he worked in at the time, I don’t sweat it as much as I would if he tested positive now that he’s a MMA competitor. But that’s just personal opinion/forgiveness.
Personally, I think he has physical tools, but probably not the mental tools. And I think the latter dominates the former. I was hoping he could make it big early so we could have some crazy Heavyweight fights. But only time will tell.
I hope you didn’t mean to be nasty, or meant it in jest, but no sweat, you always provide good food for thought, man.
J4L
Hey
I really don’t mean to be nasty – I just forget to add in enough emoticons. :-)
The thing about Mir is that we still don’t know if he has it – beating Brock the way that he did just showed that he had some good BJJ fundamentals and Brock didn’t. Mir could still be an absolute washout:. Anybody have a doubt that Nog will tool him?
As for the steroids: it’s not like after building all that extra muscle mass while you’re on them, you lose it when you cycle off. (There were those who believed that, but recent studies show otherwise.) Even if Brock stays clean forever, he’s got an advantage over other guys who don’t dope. And that’s not cool. Yes. he’s naturally big, but there’s nothing natural about that guy now.
Of course it was okay for him to do it when he was in the WWE: it’s not a sport, he’s not TRYING to hurt anyone, and I could really care less if those guys are on it. But acting like he’s on a level playing field now? Not so much.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I know this is late but
I don’t think you were either, I think I was reading a ton of posts from you here and at FL and it blended together – My bad.
And you’re totally right. Some guys lose it all and their frame can collapse afterward, but some don’t. We’ll never truly know unless he gets caught. Which is kinda sad.
As for Mir/Nog: He probably would school him, but it’s just a fight I want to see. So many ground fights are one guy who doesn’t want to be there versus someone who only wants to be there. I want to see two guys who base everything off their Jits to go at it on the ground. I just hope it doesn’t turn into a shitty striking match though.
Herring is Midlevel????
Everyone here who stated that Heath Herring is midlevel should really do some homework. Herring was at one time the number two heavyweight in the world. And Although he hit a little downslide in recent years, his last fight against Kongo looked like the Heath of old. And for the record, Heath is miles ahead of lesnar. He would dismantle him inside of one round. I am always surprised at how little respect the guy gets.
by strictlymma.com on May 23, 2008 2:14 AM EDT reply actions
ummmm...
The Heath of old wouldn’t have won by split-decision. We haven’t seen that guy in ages.
I agree that he’s too much for Lesnar though. (But again, I’m prejudiced by the roid-rage stuff.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
But
It’s still okay to stick non-needle stuff in your ass, right? Luke assures me that there’s nothing wrong with it… :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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