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The Case for Sean Sherk

Ben Fowlkes makes it:

If there’s any type of fighter Penn has struggled against, it’s wrestlers. Matt Hughes and Georges St. Pierre were both bigger and stronger than Penn, but they are also both excellent wrestlers, and they both beat Penn by outworking and outlasting him. You can give him a pass for having a broken rib or bad cardio in those fights, but the blame for both of those problems rests with Penn.

A powerhouse of a wrestler is tough on a jiu-jitsu fighter because his takedown ability and takedown defense makes it difficult to gain top position on him, which means that if you can’t beat him on the feet and can’t sweep or submit him on the mat, your chances of winning a decision aren’t good.

I’m not saying Penn’s standup isn’t better than Sherk’s. It is. But here’s a fun quiz: who’s the last person Penn beat by TKO? The answer is Paul Creighton, and it was at UFC 37 in 2002.

You could argue that he beat Joe Stevenson with strikes before finishing him with a choke, but Sherk isn’t Stevenson. To beat him you have to either overpower him and be a better wrestler than he is, or you have to become the first person to knock him out or submit him.

Penn probably isn’t going to KO him, and a decision is unlikely unless he can nullify Sherk’s takedowns. His best chance is submission, and Sherk has never been submitted.

I'll agree with Fowlkes that Sherk is probably being slept on here a little. A guy as tough, tenacious and driven as Sherk is always a threat and can never be counted out. That being said, I think Fowlkes' analysis is missing the more critical elements.

First, I don't think Penn's struggled against wrestlers at all. He crushed Hughes their first time out and was doing so in the rematch until he suffered a rib injury. Second, he walked into the fight with Georges St. Pierre with half-assed cardio and arguably won. Second to Matt Serra's beating of St. Pierre, no one has damaged the French-Canadian like Penn has. Matt Lindland and Randy Couture - two elite, much larger wrestlers - have stated Penn's wrestling (and especially his takedown defense) is absolutely outstanding. Penn doesn't have the gluey top control common to many wrestlers, but that's do more to choice than limitation. And while Joe Stevenson isn't a world class wrestler, he is an exceptional talent and yet could do nothing but survive against Penn.

As for Penn's inability to TKO/KO opponents on the feet, there's no argument that he hasn't accomplished that finish in years. But in interviewing Rob Kaman, he told me personally BJ Penn is a K-1 level striker. That rare ability always leaves open the possibility that a knockout could happen at any time. I do agree with Fowlkes, though, that Sherk likely will not be knocked out in this fight. On the other hand, I expect him to absorb significant punishment as long as the fight stays standing.

And it's true Sherk has never been submitted. Sherk has very underrated jiu-jitsu and is an excellent guard passer (I doubt he'll pass Penn's guard more than a couple of times, though). But Sherk's jiu-jitsu isn't even close to Penn's, so at worst for Penn they'll cancel each other out. What I see happening, however, is Penn actually outwrestling Sherk - yes, outwrestling with top control - or finding a way to Sherk's back and even the mount. Sherk is hard to sweep and has excellent reflexes, but he doesn't have the defense to avoid Penn's uncanny ability to take the back. From there it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that even if Penn can't land a submission, he can pound out a win.

For me, it's hard to accept the idea that Sherk can win a fight on cardio alone against a fighter with many more offensive and defensive skills who will likely come with at least serviceable cardio himself. Against an in-shape Penn, I don't see how anyone can win on cardio alone.

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Right on the money...

I think you’re hitting the nail on the head here, Luke. When I read Ben’s case, it struck me as a bit ignorant of some of the other facts that we should be looking at. After all, analyzing MMA fights takes a lot of meticulous searching and finding ways for one fighter to beat another. It can also get down to the nitty gritty of each fighter’s performances pretty quickly.

In this case, that’s exactly why I think Penn will win. If we look into the nitty gritty here, Penn’s performances against Hughes and St. Pierre could definitely be argued against the point that Penn isn’t great against wrestlers. He bloodied St. Pierre horribly in their bout, but succumbed to a cardio problem that caused him to be a victim of countless takedowns that put St. Pierre ahead on some judge’s scorecards. Penn defeated Hughes in their first fight, and I believe Penn’s rib injury was definitely a factor in Penn’s performance in the second fight.

The striking ability mentioned by Fowkles is absurd. While I agree that Penn hasn’t used it effectively to END fights, he’s used it effectively to cause opponents to move into bad positions. He’s devastated opponents with his striking countless times in the past, and it only leads to those fighters scrambling for ankle control or a takedown where Penn is even MORE dangerous.

I agree that Penn won’t knock Sherk out. It’s safe to say that Sherk seems to have a solid chin after eating 3-4 Franca knees on the shoot, but I think Penn’s ground game will be a tough skill to overcome for Sherk. I’ve always been a tremendous fan of fighters who have active guards, and Penn is always looking for that way to end the fight. It’s landed me some huge prediction wins in the past, and I won’t give it up just yet.

by Leland Roling on May 21, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The only way I see Sherk winning, is…

If he makes no mistakes for BJ to capitalize on, finds a way to repeatedly take BJ down and maintain position. I know none of us want to see a LnP match, but that may be his best strategery. I think if he can do that and frustrate BJ, he may be able to pull out a decision.

BJ seems very focused right now and that spells bad news for anyone. He has great MMA BJJ, very good striking and is hard to submit or hurt. I think if he loses this fight, it will be a setback in his quest to rematch GSP, and that seems to be his ultimate goal right now. I know I wouldn’t want to be in his way.

I’m taking BJ by 2nd round Referee stoppage. In no way does that demean Sherk, I just feel BJ has the far superior skill set and is focused.

"They said you was hung!!"

"And they was RIGHT!"

by BJJDenver on May 21, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point in here that bears repeating: Penn has not just great BJJ, he uses it extremely well in MMA. There are lots of guys out there with good to great BJJ, but can’t figure out how to use it without a gi. Penn has it down.

by AJB on May 21, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a BJ decision win is possible too. I suspect he will completely dominate the first two rounds, and I don’t think we’ll see him gas the same way. I also agree it will be Penn on top of Sherk here, and I don’t think Sherk will have what it takes to survive BJ’s top game.

by Michael Rome on May 21, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Luke’s point about Penn’s uncanny ability to take back control is extremely astute and right on the money. Penn passes to back nearly as often as he passes to half-guard, and more often than he passes to either side or mount. Just goes to show, the only difference between stat tracking and paying close attention is the spreadsheet.

by FightMetric on May 21, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree about BJ’s ability to take back control. In the Stevenson fight, I noticed this weird thing he does when he has someone mounted. Several times he had Joe mounted and Joe turned (slightly giving his back) but then turned back over. As Joe did this, BJ has been working his left foot all the way under Joe’s body/back. In effect, this kept Joe from completely turning back over and allowed BJ to keep pushing him over while pounding him (essentially getting his back). Hopefully I explained that well enough for you guys to understand. Did anyone else notice this?

(the poster formerly known as holden636)

by TheFightJournal on May 21, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll have to go back and watch it again.

by Popetastic on May 21, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

I question the end of Ben’s first paragraph: how is it BJ’s fault that he separated a rib? Matt get’s credit, but you don’t blame somebody for being injured.

And you’re right about everything else: there isn’t a place this fight can go that BJ doesn’t have the advantage except the fifth round. Striking? Penn. Grappling? Penn. Wrestling? Well, if it were a pure wrestling contest, Sherk, but it’s MMA, and BJ has not just good takedown defense, but excellent methods of combining his striking with his wrestling with his grappling. He has one of the most complete styles out there, honestly.

But I hope he gets this wrong – I’ve already seen Jake and Ryan humiliated – it’ll be nice to watch Ben drink ipecac.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.

by jemaleddin on May 21, 2008 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But I hope he gets this wrong – I’ve already seen Jake and Ryan humiliated – it’ll be nice to watch Ben drink ipecac.

Seconded. Plus, I have admit I want to to see Sherk get his grill smashed in.

by asa on May 21, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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