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Fight Night Post Mortem

by Michael Rome on Apr 3, 2008 3:07 AM EDT in MMA News

In addition to the Any Given Saturday posted below, I thought I'd add a few things...

--Houston Alexander has been utterly exposed, and for some reason I feel shitty about it. I just wish he had made some money off his wins for his kids before falling apart. Ah well.

--Karo v. Thiago was always a terrible fight to make, and they got nothing out of it tonight. The stop was definitely premature, and they may as well do a rematch now. It's good news for Fitch though, who is now clearly the number one contender.

--Nate Diaz really became a star tonight. The taunting in the triangle will be criticized, but I popped big for it and I think he's going to be huge for the 155 division.

--Florian pulled off a good win, but frankly I don't think he's a top calibre lightweight. I don't see him being competitive at all with BJ Penn. They should have him fight Huerta next to determine the next title shot at 155.

--I enjoyed TUF, though most of the guys looked crappy. It's hard to believe anyone will be competitive at 185, so if the goal is just to hype Rampage/Forrest, maybe they should just embrace that and turn it into more of a hype show for that fight than it is.

Update [2008-4-3 11:3:20 by Nick Thomas]: BloodyElbow.com Staff Predictions for 2008: Big night of upsets, our best was 6 out of 12.

Luke Thomas - 61/101 - 60%
Kid Nate - 54/84 - 64%
Brent Brookhouse - 53/86 - 62%
Michael Rome - 56/81 - 69%
Nick Thomas - 51/81 - 63%

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Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I think Alexander will hang around because he tends to have exciting fights, but it does kind of suck that he has been exposed.

The Karo fight was not stopped prematurely. There is no reason for a rematch.

The taunting was kind of lame, but at the time he did it, I thought it was entertaining.

Florian's a top caliber lightweight. I don't know how you can suggest he's not just because you think he'd lose to B.J. Penn who is arguably the best fighter pound for pound in the world.

TUF was fun to watch. The 32 guys for 16 spots idea was a really good one.

by Richard Wade on Apr 3, 2008 3:14 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I don't feel Alexander was really "exposed". Any sort of armor he may have had was thrown on him by rabid, blind fans. I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that his ground game was going to be godawful and that his chin was untested. All he showed in his victories was the mindset of a bull in a china shop. I never had much faith in his longevity nor did I see any evidence remotely asserting the possibility.

I also thought Diaz' taunting was more like explosive joy. Talk about a turnaround and he knew the triangle was in. And it's not like Kenny was looking up to see it.
But, at the same time, it's a Diaz so maybe he was verbally taunting him.

by Simco on Apr 3, 2008 4:18 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Isn't testing that chin and ground game and showing them to be suspect the definition of exposing someone?

by Richard Wade on Apr 3, 2008 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I consider exposing more appropriate if Houston was supposed to have a good ground game and chin.
Semantics, I guess.

by Simco on Apr 3, 2008 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Correction: Despite Rogan saying "double fingers" I didn't see them until watching it again. I thought he was just pumping his fists.
So my second point is void.

by Simco on Apr 3, 2008 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Houston where's the wrong mouthpiece for his jaw style. If you're jaw is aligned properly, you will NEVER suffer flash KO's. Just as the Patriots, a team with 2 concussions in two years, compared to the league average of 20 per. They switched to a retainer style mouthpiece that locks the jaw back and prevents what I call jaw-induced-elastic concussions.

Check it out.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:sSzjA9sqcz0J:www.mahercorlabs.com/pdf/aaop.pdf+patriots+mouthgu ard&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

by MoreThanUFC on Apr 3, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I don't get how you guys are saying that Alexander was exposed, and Karos fight was stopped early? They both suffered flash KO and quickly recovered.

So either both fights were stopped early, or they were both exposed. I know you guys love Karo, but come on -- some reality here please.

by mythbuster on Apr 3, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

The difference is that Houston wasn't defending himself. His arms were straight up and he was eating shots. After the knee Karo had his hands up and didn't really eat any more shots. He looked much more clear and able to defend himself than Alexander.

That's a pretty big difference.

And there is a difference between a flash KO and getting knocked down.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I should clarify though that I don't have a problem with either stoppage. Refs need to have the ability to "make the call" in those situations and not take shit for it.

I'm just saying why people are acting as though the two situations are different.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I agree with you, Karo's legs totally buckled and he looked a lot more hurt to be honest, he looked "out on his feet" to me. If you made the argument that Karo has had a lot of experience and should have been given the benefit of the doubt I would agree with that but strictly basing on what I saw both fights should have continued.

by pr0cs on Apr 3, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

When their legs go limp like a ragdoll I tend to agree with the ref.

by pr0cs on Apr 3, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Couldnt an argument be made with the Diaz fight that it was bad officiating as well?? Im glad Diaz won, but there was a godd 3-4 second span that he was eating punches like crazy. The other 2 I did not have that much issue with...

by Jayvelez on Apr 3, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

In a twisted way I think Karo should be thanking Mazzagatti. It's hard to imagine a power striker like Thiago would have given Karo a chance to recover if the fight had continued. Instead of having to live with being completely demolished, Karo can cry about an early stoppage. It's cold comfort for an ego that size, but arguably better for his career.

by Gza on Apr 3, 2008 11:34 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

I believe the highlight of the night was when Joe Rogan said "rape choke". Is that a technical term? I would have loved to see a split screen with the look on Mike Goldbergs face when he said it.

by nitro on Apr 3, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Michael - I feel the exact same way about Houston Alexander. I felt really bad for him when he lost and I think it is a real shame that he has been exposed. The combination of his back story and his exciting fighting style makes him the perfect fighter for bringing over new fans to mma (espically girls..hear me out on this). The perfect example was my fiance and one of he friend's last night. After telling them about Houston's background (e.g., single parent, donating a kidney to his daughter, etc.) they were both really excited to see his fight (and his fight only). When he was knocked out they were both devastated. That connection with him (just like the connection that gets people sucked into tv shows) is important for mma to continue to grow outside of the initial niche audience.

Now whether or not you want to watch mma with girls is another conversation.

by holden636 on Apr 3, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Just had a thought - how about Houston moving to the WEC? This seems like the perfect situation for both him and Zuffa.

by holden636 on Apr 3, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

You know...I hadn't thought about it. But Houston in the shallow LHW division in the WEC could be a lot of fun. It's mostly nothing but guys who want to bang on the feet to begin with and I don't think that he was "exposed" yesterday as much as "caught." Yeah, I have questions about his chin, but he took one flush on the jaw...there isn't anything "weak chinned" about going down from a flush hit to a sweet spot.

I'd love to see it.

And I agree in your whole story about people liking him.

When the fight started (I was watching with about 6-8 other people all of whom were either casual fans or had never really paid attention to MMA) it was a lot of talk about his oddly shaped head and the girls were joking about how his body looks (the odd stomach thing that girls get hung up on). I explained the backstory, the "awww...that's sweet" stuff started, and then he got kayoed and everyone was a little bummed.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Good stoppages in both cases, these guys would have run the risk of serious injury if not stopped.

As for Diaz, I thought it was close to getting stopped, but while he was sustaining damage, he never stopped defending himself or lost conciousness.

Alexander has been exposed in the sense that he isn't a contender. After his first 2 wins, people were already calling for him to get a shot.

by BJJDenver on Apr 3, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Its a shame, Alves really started to find his range at the end of the 1st and start of the 2nd, yet some people are giving him no credit because they're hung up on the stoppage.

by smoogy on Apr 3, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

Those people are Karo fans.

by Richard Wade on Apr 3, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Fight Night Post Mortem

It is a shame. It's being seen as the Karo loss rather than the Alves win. Really unfortunate.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions

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