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Frank Shamrock: A Different View

Promoted from the diaries. Kid Nate

Can we please stop this hype about the Cung Le vs Frank Shamrock fight and Frank all together? Yes, it was a slug fest and yes, Frank is a legend in the sport, but is not the same fighter he was 8 years ago obviously. But we are just feeding into Frank's hype machine. He is more about brand name and hype than fighting skill and these days. He has no heart and desire anymore only visions of green.

Anymore all Frank can offer up is pre-fight hype, showmanship in the cage, and excuses. Boy does he ever have excuses for everything anymore.

Let's take a look at his last three fights.

Star-divide

Frank Shamrock vs Renzo Gracie -  Frank was losing this fight to Renzo. I still do not see how he would have won that fight. Renzo had him in control most of the fight and Frank was definitely on the way to losing a decision. So what does Frank do he knees to the head of a downed opponent. Frank knew the rules he is a veteran. Then after the fight he makes comments like he came to fight tonight and Renzo took the easy way out. WRONG Frank you took the easy way out. In your mind you see a DQ as not a real loss while a decision loss to Renzo curbs your name brand a bit and hurts your marketing and hype for the next fight.

Frank Shamrock vs Phil Baroni - What does Frank do here? Well he does a great job hyping the fight however there it is as he is introduced, the announcers start talking about how Frank blew out his ACL and is worried about his takedowns. This to me is Frank setting up an excuse. He is setting this up so that since he is deciding to stand and train with Baroni he can claim "Well my ACL was shot so I couldn't take him down so I had to stand and trade blows" Had Frank got caught with a punch that KO'd him I will be the mortgage we would have heard that exact line from Frank.  Yes Frank won the fight but Baroni is barely a .500 fighter.  This was a fight more about hype and money than Frank's heart and desire and he left himself an out with the ACL excuse.

Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le - Here we go again with the Frank hype and excuses. Frank does a great job hyping and selling this fight. He also puts on a good showing by standing with Cung. However he didn't have much choice. Hell he had Cung's back in the first round and couldn't get a take down.  Cung is simply a better wrestler than Frank but again we hear the excuses. Mauro and Quadros during the fight continue to talk about Frank's ACL and how it affects his takedowns. They even at one point say Frank told us he doesn't even have an ACL. Setting up more excuses for Frank. Then Frank gets beat on for 3 rounds by Cung. Yes Frank lands a few solid punches that daze Cung but its clear who is dominating the fight and running away with it on the scorecards.  What does Frank do? He quits after the 3rd round with a broken arm. Look I am not saying he wasn't hurt or that it wasn't in pain. But I am suggesting two things.

The first is that what do you think Frank would have done had he been winning that fight?  If Frank was up 30-27 on the judges score cards through 3 rounds do you think he quits in between rounds? Absolutely not he would have kept fighting.  He took that as his way out of a beating. In Frank's mind and a lot of fans mind's he can now claim Cung didn't beat him he just broke his arm and Frank couldn't continue.  This is just not true Frank was going to lose that fight anyway and this just makes it look not as bad. Again if Frank was winning that fight he never would have quit. He has no heart of desire!

And the second point I am trying to make about the injury is again about his heart and desire. Randy Couture's arm was broken by a Gonzaga kick. We know Gonzaga has one kick KO power with his kicks(ask crocop) but have we seen Cung in MMA land a one kick or hell even one strike knockout? NOPE. I am going to suggest Gonzaga has more kicking power than Cung but is by no means a better kicker. Randy took the kick and had his arm broken( a nightstick fracture just like Frank) and continued fighting and won the fight. That is the heart and desire of a champion. Also the most despised MMA fighter Tim Sylvia had his arm snapped in half by Frank Mir so bad that it required a steel plate to be inserted. And yet Tim was mad the fight was stopped and argued to keep going. Again as much as myself and many many many others hate Tim he showed heart and desire.

Frank when you realize it takes more than hype, marketing, skill, and excuses to be a true legend only then will you begin to maybe show some heart and desire in the cage. And to all MMA fans just because of his reputation and hype please do not give Frank a free pass for taking the easy way out of fights or always having an excuse ready.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
Arm breaks are different for everyone.  I agree with most of what you're saying, Frank certainly isn't a top-tier fighter in today's game.  But to say "he should have been tougher and fought through the broken arm" is a little bit on the extreme side and I believe asks a bit much of fighters in general.

by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 30, 2008 6:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
I agree.  No one can tell how an injury feels to or affects a fighter except the fighter him or herself.  I've seen fighters continue in circumstances where A) were it me, I'd have thrown in the towel, and B) objectively, I believed that their continuing the fight risked their long-term health and career.  In the instances where fighters are risking that much to push through an injury, I don't think they're "fighters with heart".  I think they're either flooded with adrenaline and aren't really aware of how badly they are hurt, or they're reckless.

Let's be clear: heart manifests in a lot of ways.  Tim Boesch fighting Heath on next-to-no-notice on a major show and coming out gunning is heart.  As much as I hate to admit it, Huerta taking a beating from Clay Guida and coming back to win is heart.  Fighting through an injury MAY be indicative of heart, but it depends on the injury.  Injuries don't indicate the heart of a fighter; they test the physical constitution of a fighter.  Sometimes it's admirable to will oneself to overcome the limitations of the body, but sometimes it's simply foolish.

by AJB on Mar 30, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
Yeah I have to agree. Couture did well to finish gonzaga immediately after getting a much smaller fracture. Had that fight gone another round, i expect Randy would've had to quit too.

by Kid Nate on Mar 30, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
but ask yourself this.... would Frank have had the fight stopped if he was ahead on the scorecards?

by janglum on Mar 30, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
Maybe...maybe not.  That is all speculation.  And I don't think it is particularly bad to say "man...my arm is broke and I'm obviously behind on the scorecards.  I'm not going to be able to finish him with a broken arm...so I'm done."

by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 30, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
janglum to Pele Landis-Johns:

Broken Leg?  Walk that shit off, man!!  You gotta a fight to win.

by robnashville on Mar 30, 2008 7:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
i am not trying to down playing his injury... i just don't want fans and media to act like frank was going to win that fight had he not broken his arm....  i know injuries are different for all but to hear and read ppl saying that Frank fought well... frank got beat on for 3 rounds... would he have done the same if he was winning the fight?

by janglum on Mar 30, 2008 7:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
I don't think he had a choice. Once that arm snapped and the adrenaline wore off he was in a world of hurt.

by Kid Nate on Mar 30, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
And in fact it wasn't Frank's choice, the Doctor called the fight.

by Kid Nate on Mar 31, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
I think some people need to watch the fight again, it was way closer than you might think

by smoogy on Mar 30, 2008 7:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Frank Shamrock: A Different View
The last minute or so of round three left each of them on rubber legs.  It seems like some people, the person who wrote this piece in particular, seem to be judging the fight off of the first two round exclusively.

by Simco on Mar 30, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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