Manny Pacquiao Destroys Oscar De La Hoya
Everyone is going to tell you the same story over and over again: Pacquiao won with youth, head movement, perfect range, and most importantly speed. It was absolutely stunning to see De La Hoya completely overwhelmed and helpless as Pacquiao cut angles and fired shots from different locations and in different rhthyms. For fans of MMA who don't watch boxing or didn't see this fight, think of Pulver vs. Faber. Faber was able to win by being a quicker, superior athlete whose offense was unpredictable, smooth, too fast and too much. Pulver was never really able to engage Faber with any sort of sustained offense as Faber moved, turned, deftly transitioned in and out of range and remained elusive all while firing right hand leads amidst a mix of unorthodox strikes. I hesitate to make comparisons particularly across sports, but the key idea is that movement, timing, speed and properly selected offensive opportunities carried the day.
Without question, Manny Pacquiao is the best boxer in the world pound-for-pound. I don't know that beating De La Hoya - given the impotent performance De La Hoya turned in - necessarily means that Pacquiao's victory over him was a win over the most highly ranked or uniquely challenging opposition he could've faced, but the idea is that he jumped enough weight classes against a high-profile opponent to test his skills in the untested and categorically daunting waters. What transpired was an absolute beating and further proof that his skills, on some meaningful level, translate across divisions.
UPDATE: Scott Christ has more:
One-sided.
Manny Pacquiao: 224/585, 38%
Oscar de la Hoya: 83/402, 21%Pacquiao landed 59% of his 333 power punches.
And after eight one-sided rounds, Oscar de la Hoya quit on his stool, advised by trainer Nacho Beristain and warned by referee Tony Weeks that the end was near.
Amazing.
It wasn't just a beating. It was an eight-round assault. Manny Pacquiao slaughtered Oscar de la Hoya. He made a very tough, very proud man quit. He forced Oscar de la Hoya to QUIT.
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137 comments
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Comments
De La Hoya beat himself. He let Manny get in and get out, hit angles and use his speed against him. De La Hoya could of won this fight but he did not seem like he had it at the weight he was at. I think Manny bar none is the best boxer in the world, and it is a shame that we can not see him more. Only thing I can say is, Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao
by "Mr. NC-17" on Dec 7, 2008 12:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
probably gonna be more like pacman vs hatton, no?
disappointed to hear this fight was so lopsided.
by woooburn on Dec 7, 2008 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pacman vs. money in late 2009 isn’t unlikely if manny gets past hatton.
by boxingstudent on Dec 7, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree. pacman vs hatton in england would be huge. im talking wembley stadium huge.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I don’t know if there are enough boxing fans left in the world to even fill Wembley Stadium? If boxing, as a business, wants to recover and get people’s interest again….at least in the United States… this fight will be in Vegas. They could lose a significant amount of money if they go at this in England…. unless they wanna take a risk and to get people’s attention again… pehaps GIVE THIS FIGHT TO PEOPLE FOR FREE!!! Sadly, thats what it would take to get people interested in any boxing match…
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
boxing is still huge OVERSEAS. it’s bigger over in england and germany than mma. hatton is a huge star in the uk and the brits foam at the mouth for his every fight. wembley might be pushing it, but the live gate for hatton/pacquiao in england would be huge. not so much for ppv buys though imo.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good info
I’ve never really been overseas, all I know is how boxing is here and right now, its all about MMA. MMA is spreading like wild fire in Europe now from what I hear… but its going to take boxing giving us some big fights for free to get people interested again.
Hatton bigger than Beckham?
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton bigger than Beckham?
dont be ridiculous, we’re talking combat sports here, not religion :P
by Benicio on Dec 7, 2008 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HA! i dont know about being bigger than beckham, but he’s close.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whats really amazing...
Is that Pacquiao and Hatton are probably two of the toughest and most gifted fighters on this planet… yet I doubt that neither of them are big enough to get on most rides at a Six Flags.
Proof that maybe size doesn’t matter? Oh wait…. what am I really asking here… :P
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. someone just reminded me that ROGER HUERTA has to wear a chicken suit from that bet he made with brandon vera. can’t wait to see that get posted! :)
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wembley Stadium would not be pushing it
They could put 110K people in there for the fight. I have no doubts of this.
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They would not lose a cent...
if they had the fight in England.
And no…this fight will do over a million buys…so I don’t think it needs to be free to get people interested.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude i told you. manny by KO. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brent
i dont see pacquiao/hatton doing over a million or even a million ppvs. the uk has setanta sports (im sure you already know this) so they dont have to go the ppv route. i dont see this match up doing a million in the states without delahoya, but i do think it could be very successfull.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way in hell that Hatton/Pacquiao would not be on PPV, especially after Hatton/Mayweather was such a monstrous success on PPV last year over in Great Britain.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Brits still have to buy certain fights on PPV – Setanta doesn’t mean everything is free, just stuff they won’t buy – like UFC’s. Hatton Mayweather did like 1.3 or 1.4 million PPV’s and Mayweather sold MAYBE half of those. Hatton Pac would do about the same maybe a couple hundred thousand more. Hard to tell now maybe half a mil more after Pacs Deladestruction
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 2:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
skwirrl
calzaghe/hopkins was free(kinda) on sentanta.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody was gonna buy
Calzaghe vs Hopkins
Hopkins has never sold over 200K PPVS and Calzaghe doesn’t sell anything in the US… And I thing both guys are the shit. But it doesn’t mean they sell. Hatton could fight a banana slug with some salt and outsell them
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about Manny/Oscar..
as doing a million buys. Not Manny/Hatton.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Million buys world wide or just in the United States?
Maybe I just have a cynical POV of boxing these days but I’m just failing to see how Hatton vs Pacquiao would do a million PPV’s.
Maybe if it had one hell of a undercard, sounds like the one tonight was completely horrible. I think showing a fight of this magnitude for free could really make people see that this sport does still matter and we’ll get introduced to boxers that most of the world doesn’t know exsist. I think the UFC just helps themselves by showing PPV style cards to us for free, makes us want to drop that 45 bucks to get a PPV in the future.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton/Mayweather did around 1.2 million buys in the UK alone. Pacquiao/Hatton is every bit as big a fight. US I would guess somewhere around the 750,000 mark, but the money to make the fight happen is all overseas anyways. There’s far too much of it not to occur.
Mayweather/Pacquiao would be mammoth. Cotto/Pacquiao is no longer completely out of the question either.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 2:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fightopinion said that maywehter/hatton did 850k total. maybee that was for the u.s alone.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the US total. Sky Box Office reported that it was clearly the all time highest selling PPV in Great Britain and was trending as high as 1.4 million with a expected 1.2 mil.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton vs Mayweather
and Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis were the only boxing PPV’s I’ve ever gotten… there is just so little coverage for boxing these days. I’ve never actually been to these countries to see how much they enjoy boxing… I just know that here, not many care anymore because not many want to drop 50 bucks or so on a PPV with boxers they’ve never heard of.
I still think that offering a fight the magnitude of Hatton vs Pacquiao for free will definitely get people interested in boxing again.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only the mega fights
cost more than 44.95. The same as a non-HD UFC. People that don’t follow boxing don’t know about those fights even thought they are there more often than the megafights are
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whats the point?
Why charge so much if the point if at this point boxing needs to do things in order to spark interest in the sport again? Its hard to justify charging that much for a PPV event when its appearing that the sport itself is starting to tank like Elite XC and Affliction.. thats just my opinion
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 3:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boxing is on PPV for the same reason MMA is on PPV: revenue that doesn’t exist on free TV.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the boxing community is happy with the way things are going for them… more power to them and I wish them luck.
MMA cards are a lot more entertaining than boxing, you usually get more than one meaningful fight for your money.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 3:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No you don't
Zuffa tells you that you do though. Silva vs Cote is definately meaningful
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You get 1 title fight
and 1 generally competitive slightly meaninful fight. And the rest are squash matches or fights on the outskirts of the top 10 – which is what you get in boxing except on megafights where the money is topheavy for the stars
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 4:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You showed one exception just to prove the rule? What about UFC 91, 92, and 94?
by cyph on Dec 7, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stacked cards are a little easier when the “sanctioning body” has 95% of the fighters locked down under iron-fisted contacts.
UFC 91 was NOT a stacked card. Just because you are a UFC fan and know who these guys are, and the UFC actually went to lengths to hype up some undercard fights, doesn’t make it any more of a stacked card in reality.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stacked cards are a little easier when the "sanctioning body" has 95% of the fighters locked down under iron-fisted contacts.
This is irrelevant.
You’re saying Florian and Stevenson (both contenders) and now #1 contender are nobodies? Demian Maia and Gonzaga are nobodies?
The UFC is not trying to sell PPV to boxing fans and vice versa. To an MMA fan, UFC 91 may not be UFC 92, but it is quite a good card. Don’t try to make it out like its undercard is comparable to boxing undercards. You won’t win that argument.
by cyph on Dec 7, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Demian Maia is as much a nobody as Juan Manuel Lopez, if not moreso since Lopez has headlined some TV cards already. The difference is that you think his 33-1 opponent last night is a markedly worse pick for him to fight than Nate Quarry. Same thing with Josh Hendricks. And guess how those fights ended?
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If most boxing fans admit that it was a terrible undercard, I still don’t understand why you’re still arguing the opposite.
by cyph on Dec 7, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The undercard of UFC 91 was full of fights that were mismatches. Maia and Gonzaga aren’t nobodies, but they were fighting guys that they were “going to” and ultimately did, smoke.
JMM is a bigger name than Maia, Stevenson and Florian re: known to boxing fans vs. known to mma fans. JMM had two very competitive fights with one of the headlining fighters.
Either of these #1 contenders have been/would be absolutely dismantled in a one-sided fight with the champion.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you have any idea how many people live in the UK?
85 million. And as the pound is twice the dollar and they make just as much… While PPV’s are the same adjusted price, they have no probs buying the occasional PPV – and alot of them
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 2:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
55,000 people watched Hatton fight a retired lightweight in May. To fight the best P4P fighter in boxing? An all action fighter? A guy smaller than Hatton? Uhhh….
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 2:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
manny is actually a little bit taller than hatton.
plus since manny is coming down now, they’d be about the same size if they fight.
Plus Manny is HUGE in the phil, and hatton is the same for england. That fight would surely sell.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NC-17
hate to say it, but there was no way oscar could have done anything different to win this fight. he looked like a shell of his former self and looked like he got old overnight, wich happens alot in boxing. it’s not like mma, where if a fighter is being out struck, he can shoot for the take-down. i was shocked by everything in this fight, the weights, the styles and the outcome. oscar is finished and definitely should retire. after him, i don’t see any boxing match do a million ppv’s for a very long while, if ever.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You don’t think Mayweather/Pacquiao could do a million buys? Really? A guy who basically sold nearly a million PPVs on his own last time out fighting a guy who just obliterated the biggest name in the sport? You know, doing something Mayweather didn’t even come close to doing? Floyd will fight again. Don’t be foolish.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 2:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, i dont think mayweather/pacquiao will do a million ppv’s. i’m not being foolish, i do think pbf will come back, but oscar was always the draw, not hatton, not mayweather, not pacquiao. no oscar, no million ppv’s. only time will tell.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
see reply above. i thought all ppv’s worldwide were included in totals. does that mean mayweather/oscar did more than 2.4?
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mayweather Oscar was
2.4 million Worldwide and like 2.15 stateside
Hatton is a bigger international star than DLH
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mayweather/Oscar was on Setanta, I believe. Hatton is the drawing card for the UK, not necessarily Mayweather or Oscar. They would or, in Mayweather’s case, did make a megafight with Hatton because UK fans are extremely knowledgable about who they are and what it means for Hatton to fight them.
For Hatton to fight Pacquiao would be immense, particularly after Hatton’s last performance (argurably his best since beating Tszyu). If Floyd can’t be lured out immediately, he will be after that. Failing Mayweather, Pacquiao has boatloads to make against Juan Diaz, Juan Manuel Marquez, and perhaps even Cotto.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I say Cotto
He’s already the Mexecutioner – make him the Puerto Ricuctioner also
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You taking this back now
Since its been pointed out Hatton mayweather did 850K in the US alone and more in Britain?
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is this a question? i think that mayweather/pacquiao wont do 1 million DOMESTICALLY. satisfied?
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pacquiao vs JMM
Did almost 400K last time
I’m pretty sure Pac Mayweather would be right around 1 Million
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the sake of comparison, that’s higher than any PPV buyrate Mayweather did before fighting Oscar (about 350K for the fights with Gatti, Baldomir, and Judah), and way, way higher than any Hatton buyrate. His only PPV was with Maussa immediately after his split with Frank Warren, and that sold in sub-Bodog numbers.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So fighting and beating DLH
makes you a PPV star – Unless your name is Mosley or BHop
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton was never a draw in the US the way Pacquiao has been. Pacquiao’s HBO PPVs drew significantly more than Mayweather’s prior to PBF’s fight with Oscar. I wouldn’t expect that his numbers would jump through the roof to being a guy who commands 750,000-900,000 buy shows each time (though I think being a consistent 500,000-600,000 is), but matched with a massive draw like Mayweather, I simply don’t see how on earth it doesn’t sell over a million PPVs.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$55 for a poor undercard and a 1-sided whooping. Not a quality card at all. Props to Pacquiao for putting on a clinic. Whatever Pac’s next fight is please let it be competitive at least.
by Sokonojudo on Dec 7, 2008 12:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the analysis of the fight BE..
No way in hell I was going to pay 55 bucks to see this, glad to hear about Pacquiao picking De La Hoya apart.
I will pay to see Pacquiao vs Hatton….
Unless Pacquiao vs Hatton does insane amounts of PPV’s and people actually start to care about boxing again, there isn’t enough money to get Mayweather to come out of retirement. I know a lot of people see him as the A Typical Money Makin Playa… but he got that money because he is a very smart business man.
We’d see the Klitschko brothers fight each other before Mayweather comes out of retirement to fight Pacquiao.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 12:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe Oscar quit. Everyone I was watching with was just shocked at how the guy wouldn’t fight back in the later rounds. It was apparent he was no match but a guy like Oscar, a multiple world champion, should have the heart to fight back no matter what happens.
Paquiao broke De La Hoya physically and mentally.
I know on ESPN there was a big article saying how this was a mismatch in the worst sense, but in De La Hoya’s favor. They were saying De La Hoya is just too big, used to fighting bigger guys and taking bigger shots, has too much power for Pacquiao, Paq is too small and won’t do any damage, etc. Damn were they wrong. This was a mismatch in favor of Paquiao. De La Hoya really never stood a chance.
by Discman2 on Dec 7, 2008 1:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the main advantage of manny was freddie roach. He knew oscar’s weaknesses. and he knew how to use pacman’s strengths to exploit them. They had a good game plan. And manny showed vastly improved boxing skill and his right hand is really dangerous now. I kinda thought manny would win, but i never expected to see manny pacquiao totally outbox and dominate de la hoya throughout the fight.
i kinda got disappointed that oscar gave up. I was hoping for a highlight knockout by liver punch or volume body and head punches or something. and he was really on the verge of it for 2 rounds… But its okay, pacman won.
now everybody in this country is happy. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Freddie Roach must be ecstatic right now.
by Richard Wade on Dec 7, 2008 1:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
meh….I just keep yelling for either fighter to shoot.
by ProCannonFodder on Dec 7, 2008 2:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not to be a buzzkill, but I’ve never understood the appeal of boxing. My dad introduced me to it when I was a kid, but it was downhill after I asked him, “Why can’t they kick?” I’ve always thought the rules to limiting and arbitrary. So boxing fans out there, why do you like it?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 3:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don’t really sit down and think to myself, “gee, why doesn’t the point guard just run down the court?,” either. I dunno, watching people punch each other in the face is entertaining?
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest complaint was that it eliminated such a tactical element – why not strike with all limbs? I took karate as a kid, and we kicked in sparring, so I didn’t see the difference. Though I do get why some limits are needed (see Hackney/Joe Son for thankfully illegal strikes)
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 3:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All sports have seemingly bizarre tactical elements removed. Asking why I should like boxing when it lacks kicking is like wondering why someone would like soccer even though they can’t use their hands.
by D.Capitated on Dec 7, 2008 3:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the game isn’t slowed down by the lack of hand-use – I’ve tried watching many classic boxing matches that just seem to be two guys huddled behind their gloves. What would you recommend I watch for good, classic boxing?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 3:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sugar Ray Robinson
Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard… The list goes on and on and on
The past Manny Pacquiao – Henry Armstrong – if you could dig up any file footage
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 4:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shiny. Any good match-ups in particular?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 4:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hagler hearns Castillo vs Corrales 1 Vazquez vs Marquez 1 2 and 3 SR Robinson vs Lamotta 1 and 6, Joe Louis vs Max Schmelling 1,2 Marciano vs Archie Moore, Joe Louis and Marciano vs Jersey Joe Walcott 1
Ali vs Norton Frazier vs George Foreman Hagler vs SR Leonard Iran barkley vs roberto Duran…
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
duran vs Hagler… A good thing to google would be boxing – fight of the year – and then the year
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 4:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HERE YOU GO
http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_fight.htm
A list of fight of the years goign back to the 40s – doesn’t cover all the historic fights but they should all be entertaining as hell
by skwirrl on Dec 7, 2008 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome – Can’t wait to watch them.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
because it’s been around alot longer than mma. i grew up in the 80s, one of the golden eras of boxing . there was no mma back then. i was obsessed with the sport up until about 6 or 7 years ago, but am now obsessd with mma. i still like boxing, but it’s lost alot of it’s allure to me.i can only get into superfights.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 3:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know that is funny. As I find my fanaticism for MMA growing, I find boxing less appealing. Though for many reasons that are not related to kicking, lol. But I also find things like straight Muay Thai less appealing, K1 less appealing and so on. I don’t think it is so much that these sports are unappealing, but perhaps a testament to how APPEALING mma is. After watching live K1 for the first time this weekend, I have become more of a fan, though I still prefer mma. At this point, I am wishing HDNet would find a way to televise things like Mundials, Pan Ams or Abu Dhabi!!
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 4:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Same here – I like muay thai, K-1, I’ve seen college wrestling on ESPN, and I long for ADCC on TV here. Ultimately, it’s the “mixed” aspect of mma that attracts me more than any of the other combat sports. Every style has a counter-style, and how to those get implemented?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 4:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still find boxing appealing, but only the best fighters. It still needs to be noted that boxing brings out some of the best athletes. For the elite, their conditioning, handspeed, reflexes, timing and technique are all top notch.
Boxing is kind of like basketball in that you have to press your slight advantages over a long time to see a noticable difference but it does add up in the end. Pacquiao was far better than Oscar, but we see here how long it took for a battered De La Hoya to finally succumb and he wasn’t even knocked down. He might be past his prime, but he’s truly a tough guy.
I think there’s something to the saying: Jack of all trades, master of none. Boxers are truly the masters of their craft and it would be a shame to lose these experts. MMA fighters are great, but I think there’s still something to be said for being the top competitor in a sport as relevant as boxing.
by bigweeze on Dec 7, 2008 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oscar is aging, slowing and losing his power. Add a big weight cut and a training camp without his usual trainers and this is the ODH of today. Put him against an all out fighter in his prime that is way faster and has a superior training staff and this is the fight you get.
frankly, it should have been Over De Hilla vs Trinidad as the farewell fight. Pacman was a terrible idea from the start imo.
I didn’t even bother with the undercard. What a disgrace this card was to fans. If boxing doesn’t think they are losing fans, they are crazy. i grew up a boxing fan, and the only fight that carries much interest for me, is Pacman/Hatton.
Bottom line, i would take a free UFC card that people always complain about, over any boxing superfight ppv card every time.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 3:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And...
It is a shame, because boxers like Pacquiao and Hatton deserve to be held in high regard and make the big bucks, rather than be associated with crappy cards like tonights.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody in this world ever "deserves’ that kind of money.
by cyph on Dec 7, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s arguable. They “deserve” it because they are responsible for the amount of revenue being earned in return for their name value, fan base, performance, etc.
In terms of pure economics, they definitely “deserve” it.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, absolutely. And what I mean is they deserve it relative to the big earners during boxing’s better days. The money, the respect, the recognition as great fighters/athletes, etc…
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fully agreed. I was just replying to cyph’s comment that no one “deserves” that kind of money. I mean, I see where he’s coming from – in that who “deserves”, as of right, to make millions upon millions to compete in sports…but when it’s all said and done, in an economic sense, it is deserved.
But again, the Hatton’s and Pacquiao’s et al. really are legends or legends in the making and deserve to be recognized.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
C’mon, you and I do!! lol!
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why doesn’t Pacquiao deserve the money he’s making?
What would a run of the mill boxer deserve vs. the top P4P boxer in the world? Suppose Joe Boxer was worth $50,000 per year which is debatable, the absolute best should command significantly more should he not?
Not to mention the fact that Pacquiao is a national hero. That’s got to be worth something.
by bigweeze on Dec 7, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the only fight that carries much interest for me, is Pacman/Hatton.
There are so many better fights than this one, which right now looks like another Pacquiao beatdown to me. Pacquiao/Marquez III is still probably a better fight (IMO), Izzy Vazquez against Juanma Lopez might happen next summer, Margarito-Cotto II is a lock for next June no matter what Margarito does against Mosley in January, Margarito-Williams II would be very intriguing if it ever happened (it won’t), and a potential Mayweather-Pacquiao fight is VERY interesting now. Mayweather is a defensive genius and a great counter-puncher and really fast, but damn Pacquiao is lightning in a bottle every time out.
Plus you even have potentially great fights like JM Marquez v. Juan Diaz, Kelly Pavlik v. Arthur Abraham, and plenty more.
Still, I do see your point. For one thing Pacquiao-Hatton is a huge fight and will be a freakin’ hoot with those rowdy fanbases mixed together, and for another thing boxing promoters are not only not listening to the fans when it comes to lame undercards, they seem like they’re now taunting us. “Yeah, yeah, yeah — bitch all ya want, but here’s three pieces of crap. Betcha still order!”
Of course I will, Bob and Dick, because I have no other way to see the one good fight on top. Thanks for all your appreciation, boxing promoters!
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 7, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pacquiao marquez is getting old. let him fight some other people. Marquez gets knocked down 4 times and claims he won both decisively. How nice right. Let them fight other people. The only reason why marquez wants manny is for the money.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquez wants Manny because he thinks he can beat him
Marquez also had an argument in both fights. I scored the rematch close for JMM, though I wouldn’t argue one second someone that scored it for Manny. Marquez is the only guy in years to give Manny any real resistance. Since Manny lost to Morales he has pretty much dominated everyone but JMM.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 7, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree that i wouldnt argue with anyone who says that marquez won because its a really close fight. But hey, the first fight, is close, but one judge already said that he made a mistake in scoring the first round. Then, manny wins a close, but deserving decision. And true, marquez is the only guy who gave any real resistance. But dude, i’d rather see him fight bigger fights, like hatton. Than watch another marquez fight. The reason why marquez keeps on trying to fight manny again and again, its mostly because its his only ‘big’ fight available.
He can beat up on other lightweight champs and be lineal champ, but those fights wouldnt sell as much as a pacquiao fight, that’s why he’s willing to follow pacman up to 147 in a meaningless (in terms of rankings) fight, than be a lineal world champ.
Plus, with manny’s improved boxing, right hand and defense, do you actually think the fight would be as close now? ..I’d be cool to see the fight, but ONLY after he finishes a mega fight with Hatton. That’s the more interesting fight for me.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. But that is my point. It isn’t the only great boxing match, but it is the only super high profile, compelling match up that I really care about.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I normally don’t give a shit about boxing but this was a pretty exciting fight.
by Devil Beest on Dec 7, 2008 3:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What about Flyod, Mr. Thomas?
Are you saying Manny is #1 P4P because Flyod is “retired” or because you believe he is above PBF in that ranking?
by #5mmafan on Dec 7, 2008 6:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
he’s retired dude. Until he returns, i dont think he should be considered in any pfp argument.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no one really buys that he's retired...
but for the sake of rankings, he’s retired.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 7, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yupyup. we all know he's coming back if a big money showdown comes.
but since he’s “retired”, he’s off the rankings.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had all every round for Manny, with this last two being 10-8.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 7, 2008 6:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
me too. i think the 7th was 10-8 too. but i had the 8th at 10-9.. de la hoya didnt even try to punch during the 7th.
the 8th could also be 10-8. i was surprised cause from what i saw, de la hoya couldnt even win a single round.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s like 2:46am here so I can’t read all the comments, but I got to watch the match at a Filipino restaurant out in Honolulu. I think I was the only non-Filipino there, though I kind of blend in physically. When they played the Filipino national anthem, everybody was standing up. It was awesome! I thought DLH was going to jab away at Pacman to a victory, so it was a ton of fun watching the match playing out the way it did in that atmosphere. Well, after too many San Miguel Lights, I gotta sleep!
by dmayeda on Dec 7, 2008 7:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
thats cool :) ..you should see the atmosphere here in the philippines. No wont see anybody on the street when pacquiao fights. And The crime rate drops to zero. Everybody is just glued to their TVs or watching at bars or cinemas..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome. I was at a friend’s house and he and his family are Filipino, with most actually being from there. It was fun watching them, though I could have lived without them singing the anthem, lol!
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damn. i wouldnt do that. so dont think that every filipino is like that.. hahaha. :D
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Philippino
national anthem kicks the unholy hell out of ours. Almost as good as the Russian national anthem.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 9, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll tell you
And this has been echoed by others, I truly enjoyed watching Manny make some history and all, but anyone that feels gypped out of $55-65 bucks for last night’s show is right. It was shit. When I’m saying Calzaghe-Jones had the better undercard, we’re talking major crap thrown at us as viewers. Hell, at least the JC-RJJ undercard losers had a fuckin’ pulse.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 7, 2008 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
One request...
can we, as MMA fans, stop using the “no one knows who these guys are aside from Oscar” …or Manny…or Hatton
Let’s be realistic about our sport if that is going to be our argument. No one knows who most MMA fighters are except Lesnar, Couture, Liddell and maybe Forrest and Rashad.
As Scott and I were talking about you could drop the top 10 P4P guys from both of the sports in a shopping mall and maybe 3 or 4 guys from each sport would get recognized. No one is going to recognize Machida, Torres or Fedor. They probably wouldn’t recognize Penn….etc
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bang on. Just because “we” as mma fans know who all the fighters are, does not mean that the general sports or fight sports fan know. It’s complete bias on our part to say how all of these cards and fighters do or don’t have “name value” in boxing when the same argument is equally applicable to mma.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson/Silva...
is only a mega fight to MMA fans. To the regular guy on the street it’s not anywhere near a big deal. That’s the kind of thing I think you and I are both saying.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would never use the “we don’t know who” argument. I would argue that boxing fans are let down time after time after paying $55 for the PPV. How much longer will they allow that to happen? How often can MMA fans say that their $45 was wasted? This has nothing to do with popularity. It a recession, people needs to get their money’s worth. Each respective fan base needs to ask that question without regard to the other fan base.
by cyph on Dec 7, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that wholeheartedly...
and I don’t think too many boxing fans will argue that they’re happy with the undercards. I am totally in line with the way you’re thinking. I just don’t like the way people are dismissing boxing with the above argument (in my comment) when the same absolutely applies to ours.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, you don't like hearing that comment...
What is boxing doing right now to grow and expand? Seriously, what are they doing?
I learned this in college, “as a business, if you are not growing…then you’re dying”. I’m not seeing boxing really doing anything to try and draw new fans or bring back old ones that were disillusioned w/ the PPV companies.
There use to be big fights on network tv back in the day… even huge fights on HBO or Showtime. There are extremely talented fighters like Margarito and Mosley that are going to fight on HBO… that could be really good. Boxing needs to grow if they wanna survive, that means spend money to make money because boxing maybe huge world wide but it isn’t anywhere it use to be in the United States.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are still plenty of very good fights...
on HBO and Showtime. Shobox does a good job of trying to build up new stars. The real failure is PPV undercards. They are trying to use HBO and Showtime and I think do so quite effectively..the problem is two fold for me:
1) HBO and Showtime counter each other’s programming every possible opportunity.
2) PPV undercards don’t provide much, if any competitive and meaningful fights. NABO “title” fights between paper challengers and young bulls belong on ESPN2…not on PPV.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You've sparked my interest...
Ok, Brent… you know your stuff so who are some up and comers that aren’t in the spectrum of Pacquiao, Hatton, or a Klitschko but are must see fighters in your opinion?
I’m really wanting to broaden my horizons here and give boxing a chance but I’m honestly clueless as to who to watch.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO...
Pavlik (even with his loss to Bhop), Cotto, Margarito, Arreola is an up-and-coming US-Mexican HW, Arthur Abraham…if you’re looking for a replacement for Gatti – Michael Katsidis.
Anyone else weigh in here? I’m by no means a boxing aficionado.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good list...
Pavlik is always a good watch…Hopkins was just an awful fight for him.
Cotto is the same way…Margarito was just too much for him to deal with.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Pavlik
Kelly Pavlik is one of the few boxers I do follow…. the fight against Hopkins just didn’t seem right to me but I wasn’t able to see it so all I know is that he lost.
Miguel Cotto, there is a name I’ve heard…. heard he’s a beast too. Wasn’t he an Olympic boxer?
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
well…some good stuff to check out soon is like…
Steve Cunningham vs. Tomasz Adamek on Versus on the 11th. That one is for the Ring Magazine Cruiserweight belt.
I’d probably skip Klitschko/Rahman later this month
In January (the 24th I believe) you have Margarito/Mosley on HBO. And Margarito is a must see kind of guy.
I really suggest heading over to badlefthook and asking Scott about younger up-and-coming fighters. I don’t follow boxing near as much as I used to now with all the MMA work i do…but I still watch a lot of boxing (mostly hanging out at Scott’s place…or just tuning in to HBO shows last minute).
Any time a Shobox card is on showtime I suggest checking it out….they usually feature young boxers that are a good watch.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Thanx for taking the time Punisher and Brent, I will check these out since I got the extra time before the next semester starts.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Cunningham
lol… he was on Don King’s “Prizefighter” for the 360… thats the only way I know that name, I’ll admit it.
by Gunslinger20 on Dec 7, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Margarito-Mosley is definitely a must watch. If you have the time and intraweb hunting skills, you mos def must look up Margarito vs. Cotto.
That is what an exciting boxing match looks like.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. MMA is getting more popular, but the day a couple of 155’rs in the UFC do 2 million buys is a fairly long ways off.
by lbk on Dec 7, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, many will say Manny was the best in the world before this fight, but this def cemented it. Def changing of the guard in a way. Manny just has the best combo of speed/power maybe ever for a man his size. He just overwhelms other fighters with his power. you can tell they def don’t expect it when they get hit.
by lbk on Dec 7, 2008 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A lot has been said about how Oscar was slow, old, whatever. Much of that was emphasized by Pacquiao and his amazing skills. It should absolutely not ne overlooked, while we talk about ODH, the undercard, the state of boxing, etc…, that Pacman is an amazing fighter who made one of the proudest guys in the world, not want to continue. I don’t think it can be stated enough, just how great a job Manny, Freddie and company did, have done and will continue to do.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i completely agree.. If de la hoya had faced a slower fighter instead of manny, the fight would be more competitive and no one would say that de la hoya is that washed up. Roach made an excellent game plan and manny executed it well.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 7, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't get more depressing than these 2 pictures


Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I still don’t know if I wanted Pacquiao or Oscar to win, but seeing a great fighter go down like that is just about the last thing I wanted to see.
Thanks for a great career Oscar! Now go count your money my man!
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How bad did he look after the fight? He doesn’t look hurt here (though he looks absolutely mentally whipped, I mean more physical damage)
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Dec 7, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His left eye was pretty swollen and his face was puffy from the shots. I still don’t think Pacman could have knocked him out, but it was amazingly one-sided the last 2 or 3 rounds, to the point Oscar wasn’t even attempting to fight back.
Imo, the dominance was physical, but a lot of the damage was definitely mental. He physically over matched Oscar to the point of frustrating him and breaking him down mentally. Really, all anyone needs to know is, an amazing fighter and extremely proud man was beaten to the point of not continuing the fight. If it was all physical, i have little doubt that Oscar would have dragged himself out there to continue, but in this case there really was no point going on.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pacman could've..
knocked him out. I thought I saw DLH’s knees buckle a bit couple of times, just that Pac was smart enough to back down after his barrage of combos knowing that he might get tagged, after all, DLH is still a lot bigger than him. I agree with the rest of your assumptions though..
by Johann on Dec 8, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did Oscar remind anyone of Gatti against Mayweather?
by bigweeze on Dec 7, 2008 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This fight actually kind of reminds me of Oscar vs. Chavez.
by FRANKIE on Dec 7, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how
fate intervenes like that, eh?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 9, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by 





![According to this translation of a passage from Takanori Gomi's blog, the Japanese lightweight free agent has been in talks with Zuffa while in Las Vegas for the Pacquiao-Cotto fight, aided by his friend Tito Ortiz. Gomi says that if talks with Zuffa fall through, Strikeforce is another option, and that he wants to have a deal in place to start the new year.
Photo by Dan Herbertson for Sherdog.
[UPDATE] It looks like the post has gone missing from Gomi's blog (that, or the quote was fabricated), so take this with a grain of salt for now. However, Gomi was most definitely in Las Vegas this past weekend for the big fight.](http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/86199/20091102045748_200910302479_small.jpg)













