De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao Undercard = Shamefully Bad
by Luke Thomas on Dec 6, 2008 11:51 PM EST
in MMA News
Email
PrintIn the first televised bout, Daniel Jacobs stopped Victor Lares in the second round. Totally expected.
The second fight was a joke, as Sergio Medina, an unjustly world-ranked fighter, got a shot at Juan Manuel Lopez's WBO junior featherweight title. Lopez winning early would not be a problem, but the fact that Medina was clearly out of shape and uninterested in fighting is a problem. This is what they offered us for 50 dollars. Medina put on 16 pounds overnight, and went down three times as Lopez landed nine punches. Medina was 1-for-6 on the night. A joke.
And a half hour of interviews and an ignored fight in the background, Victor Ortiz got rid of washed-up Jeff Resto early in the second round after three knockdowns total.
This was atrocious, and HBO, Golden Boy and Top Rank should be embarrassed that they demanded $54.99 from the boxing public for this card. Three utter mismatch showcase fights that wasted the time and showed us nothing about the winning fighters except that they were in against illegitimate competition.
The talent level was higher than what we witnessed on the undercard for Jones vs. Calzaghe, but at least there was some mileage on those fights. It continues to be the case that the undercard is one of the most consistently botched aspects of event management in boxing.
42 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
bad undercard = missed $$ opportunity
This can be summed up as missed opportunity. UFC fights are not just fights, they’re events. It’s like going to a concert where the opening act is as interesting (if not more) than the main act. Bottom line is, the promoters, venue and PPV lose dollars with a weak undercard. Good undercard = increased attendance, which = increased gate, more concession sales, memorabilia sales, etc. Better undercard will also result in broader interest, which = increased PPV. This is what the UFC has completely figured out and I don’t get how boxing doesn’t. There have been a dozen or so UFC events that I bought for compelling undercard matchups and NOT the main event. Another reason boxing’s unwillingness to change and adapt will be their demise.
The problem with boxing undercards is twofold. For one, there’s the perception that a fighter’s record is everything. One, or God forbid, two straight losses, and you’re tossed to the curb. Working in concert with that, promoters don’t want to risk their fighter’s record unless they’re going to at least get a big paycheck from it. They know their fighter will lose marketability once they lose. Because of that, you get promoters and their fighters using undercards to pad their records with meaningless, boring, overmatched fights.
by Meeaaat on Dec 7, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Watched some of the undercard fights...
And they were ridiculously awful. Masterful piece of boxing by Pacquiao in the main event, however.
How much longer will boxing fans allow themselves to get fleeced out of $55 for one-sided beatings? Is this it for boxing?
Is this it? No. If anything, Pac turned himself into a bigger draw.
I think they’ll be some pushback against the high prices, but Pacman just bought himself some big paydays and likely some big PPV buyrates.
Under the right circumstances, sure. My only real point is that Pacquiao increased his visibility and popularity today. Nothing declined or stayed the same. He made a name for himself. Whether people will pay for shitty undercards for a Pac main event is still up for debate, but to ask “is this it for boxing?” is beyond premature.
Whether people will pay for shitty undercards for a Pac main event is still up for debate, but to ask "is this it for boxing?" is beyond premature.
Exactly. Dude just killed the most visible person in the sport. If anything this passes the torch of the “must-see” guy in boxing.
2.4 mill buys for his last fight say a lot, as does the fact that if he came out of retirement I’d bet the farm he’d sell a ton of tickets and PPV buys. So, yes.
maywether/hatton only did 850k ppv’s i believe. boxing only did 1 million buys or more when oscar was fighting in the last few years. there are no more tyson’s or holyfields at hw and oscar will surley retire after tonight. i think manny/floyd or manny/hatton wont even get close to a million ppvs. oscar was always the draw.
DLH is the draw for sure, but if we’re suggesting 850k buys is bad we are on two different wavelengths.
i wasnt suggesting that 850k buys is bad, quite the contrary, thats awesome, but compared to to 2.4 million it’s just not quite as eye-popping.
another thing some people forget is that delahoya has a huge built in fan base which includes a lot of FEMALES. i don’t see manny as having that cross-over appeal. it takes a lot more than just beating delohoya in the ring to equal his success, but it sure can’t hurt.
by bdw on Dec 7, 2008 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
850k in the US and another 1.2 million in the UK.
“Only” 2 million buys.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 7, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Just curious, who is there left for him to fight now? I know Hatton and maybe Mayweather? Boxing is all about headlining with big names. DLH is a known commodity (even if he is as slow as molasses). My point is what fights will Americans be most likely to shell out $55 for in the future?
Correct...
Hatton is as close to a 100% sure thing as you can get without either of them saying “yes…we’re doing it” and the contract being signed.
I was hanging out with Scott of BadLeftHook tonight watching the fight at his place and he is pretty confident that Mayweather will come out of retirement by the end of ’09 to fight Manny if he beats Hatton.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
only two boxing matches i've ever ordered...
Mayweather/Hoya and Pacquio/Hoya.. I’m done!!
This is why I hate boxing
Granted I paid for the PPV only for the main event, which was $64 for HD coverage, but I wanted to see some good undercard action to go along with a potentially great main event.
This PPV was a reflection on the state of where boxing is today and that is constant mismatches. The fight that most sticks out to me was the fight before the main event. I forget who was fighting, which says a lot, but the one guy got knocked down twice in the FIRST FUCKING ROUND. It was apparent he was brought in to lose in dramatic fashion and he had no shot in hell.I think the guys record was 22-2 or something like that and when they were being introduced I figured it’d be a good fight or at least evenly matched. Holy shit was I wrong… And what I hate most is that this is what boxing has become. The undercard is full of horrible mismatches and fighters no one outside of boxing even knows about. Can you believe that the fight I was talking about was a championship fight? And there wasn’t any mention of it anywhere before the event? You basically have to be friends or family with the fighters to know that they are fighting for a title…
On the other side of this is why I love MMA. Not every event has 10 great fights but there are at least 4-5 good fights per event and each fight is evenly matched for the most part. Most importantly is I actually know who is fighting before hand. Even if I weren’t into MMA hardcore I’d be able to find out who is fighting on the undercard. A quick trip to wikipedia takes care of that. But when I tried to see who was on the under card of the boxing PPV I got nothing but talk about only the main event. It’s like no one else was fighting…
The problem with the headlining undercard bout was...
Victor Ortiz is a savage…and Resto is washed up. Basically Resto WAS Ortiz several years ago and now is old and presented no credible threat whatsoever but he was the right kind of “step up” opponent for Ortiz. I figured Resto would hang in there for a good 5 rounds before going out but Ortiz smoked him. It wasn’t a good fight by any means…but there was a kind of logic to the matchmaking….it just wasn’t anywhere near competitive.
It was a very weak undercard though and as a big boxing fan I have no problem admitting that you’re right that weak undercards are a major fault of boxing (especially PPV’s) You see much more quality undercard fights on the typical HBO or Showtime network broadcast than you do on the HBO or Showtime PPV’s because they use the televised fights to try and build stars for PPV’s. On the PPV itself the undercard is almost more of a time filler to showcase fighters.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 7, 2008 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
On one hand, I’ve always found the claim that the undercards in boxing were worse than undercards in MMA to be kinda funny. They aren’t. They’re imagined to be because often the UFC has done some pretty brilliant promoting to make their undercards seem more important. The mismatches on the undercard of UFC 81 and 91 (two of the better recieved cards of the year) were every bit as obvious, IMO, and they were carried out with the same rough efficency. As time goes on, you can expect fans to become increasingly aware of that and more and more arenas not filling until the chief support bout as you see in boxing. It is simply inevitable.
What the UFC does do that HBO and Showtime have never done with any of their broadcasts is televise fights that were swing bouts or darked out to the US audience. Its an absolutely terrible policy that they don’t offer to purchase rights on the cheap for some of those bouts, if for no other reason than that it offers them something to put on other than Jim Lampley doing his 3rd breakdown of the main event. Certainly even fewer of those fights matter, but if you pay attention, you’ll often see them pop up on torrents sites (international telecasts) and even on US TV (Lou DiBella’s showed several blacked out HBO undercard fights on SNY).
The mismatches on the undercard of UFC 81 and 91 (two of the better recieved cards of the year) were every bit as obvious, IMO, and they were carried out with the same rough efficency.
You do realize only four matches on the card had odds even as far apart as -200, and only one as far apart as -300 (the Gonzaga fight, which was the only insane mismatch.)
I couldn’t find the odds for tonight’s entire undercard, but just the Juan Manual Lopez and Victor Ortiz fights were both over -500 for the favorite.
So, I do believe you’re talking out your ass in comparing these respective undercards.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 7, 2008 5:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bodog odds
I posted them earlier in the week:
Lopez -3500
Medina +1700
The Ring can rank Medina as the #5 contender at 122 pounds all they want, but anyone with a brain could see his record was marshmallows.
Ortiz -550
Resto +350
Frankly, Ortiz should’ve been a way heavier favorite. He was an easy way to throw down 550 bones and know you’re making a free and cool hundred bucks. I don’t have any real idea why the lines for this one were as low as they were. Maybe everyone was like Manny Steward and thought Resto could still fight, despite that he hasn’t shown any appreciable ability to do so in years.
Jacobs-Lares had no line because it could’ve taken place at the Topeka National Guard Armory and been as impactful on all of our lives.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by Scott Christ on Dec 7, 2008 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed. Hindsight is 20/20. The matches for UFC 91 was much closer than the fight ended to be. Some of the fighters improved so much faster than people expect. Who knew Florian would decimate Stevenson and Hazelett destroyed McCrory? Lets not forget that only in MMA can prohibitive underdogs has a chance of winning, and quite often at that.
Vegas odds are hardly the only indicator of a mismatch. For christs sake, Baldomir was a huge dog to Gatti when Baldomir was the seasoned world champion and Gatti an outsized aging club fighter. That people put money down on Nate Quarry when he had literally no chance at winning was, to me, hilarious. Same with McCrory (a mediocre prospect with poor submission defense) getting subbed or Josh Hendricks (okay wrestler with no striking) getting drubbed. Its a failure to recognize the obvious that is largely due to the ability for the UFC to create interest in fighters who are not very good.
That’s not to say that being able to promote fighters who suck is a bad thing. Junie Browning will make them a lot of money for being a guy who probably couldn’t beat the James Fanshears of the world. That alternately means they don’t have to spend much money to make money, whereas a boxer at that level is immediately laughed out of the room.
On one hand, I’ve always found the claim that the undercards in boxing were worse than undercards in MMA to be kinda funny. They aren’t. They’re imagined to be because often the UFC has done some pretty brilliant promoting to make their undercards seem more important. The mismatches on the undercard of UFC 81 and 91 (two of the better recieved cards of the year) were every bit as obvious, IMO, and they were carried out with the same rough efficency.
LOL no. I haven’t seen mismatches in the UFC like boxing has offered on just about every undercard, especially last night’s card. There have been a couple of mismatches but for the most part fights have been seen as even and have even been competitive. Using UFC 81 as an example, main card only, the only giant mismatch was Alemeida/Yundt. At UFC 91 the only mismatch I see is Gonzaga/Hendricks. Every other fight was not a mismatch and turned out to be at least somewhat competitive. And as for promotion, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the UFC only ever promotes the top 2-3 fights. The main card is usually 5 fights with 6-7 fights shown on the PPV. Those unpromoted main card fights and even under card fights are important because they build up guys to be contenders, but they build up in good ways. Instead of showcasing a guy with uneven matches like they do in boxing they make contenders out of those who have the skills. The only time a guy is ever built up with horrible mismatches is when a popular fighter from another organization comes into the UFC and the UFC wants to showcase that fighter(ie Cro Cop fighting Sanchez)
So don’t give me that UFC undercards are just as bad as boxing’s undercards. Believing that is just…. dumb
You don’t think Marqhardt/Horn was an obvious mismatch? It was the Ortiz/Resto of that show (younger talented fighter against shot former star). In fact, Mir/Lesnar was too, except that in that case, a 1-0 fighter (repeat; 1-0) got caught with a leglock 90 seconds in. Tibau/Griffin was a highlight fight for Griffin. Looking on the stuff that was darked out initally, you’d be crazy to tell me Lytle/Bradley or Boetsch/Heath was really great matchmaking.
You’re using your 20/20 hindsight again. Tibau/Griffin was competitive on paper. Marquardt looks awesome right now, but when he fought Horn, he just came off a total annihilation by Silva. Boetsch was supposed to be beaten by Heath.
Heath was anything but supposed to beat someone: He’s been the UFC’s trial horse for awhile. Tibau was a clear underdog in that fight from the get go, and Horn has been shot to pieces for awhile. If people had actually seen the fights with Santiago, Niko, or Lindland, they’d have a markedly different viewpoint on how valuable he was against Lister or Nate, Same with the upcoming loss he’ll incur facing Palhares. Is there anyone that thinks he can win that?
Well Palhares is a pure BJJ fighter. Horn is known for his BJJ. I dont expect Horn to win but it wont be an easy fight for Palhares. He is stronger than Horn but I can never count Horn out, especially against a BJJ fighter. I think more than anything this will be a good test for Palhares. He couldn’t do much against Henderson and maybe it was too early for him to be taking on Henderson anyways.
If you want to talk about mismatch (in hindsight) look at Palhares’ first fight against Salaverry. But Salaverry is a BJJ fighter and perhaps this is the same type of fight as the Horn fight will be.
Horn is done though, man. He’s looked awful for about 2 years now, his striking was never very good, and against a superior grappler, he literally has no chance whatsoever. The sad part is he’s not going to retire for a long time.
Yeah I guess you’re right, sad to say. I’d like to think Horn has some chance but realistically he’s got very little, if any.
Horn is one of those guys in MMA where a young guy can face and beat only so that casual fans will think ‘wow that guy beat him? He must be really good’.
Still though the original point stands. UFC undercard fights(again, speaking only of main card fights) are way more competitive than you were saying earlier. There are few examples where it’s a gross mismatch just to build a guy up.
Let’s put it this way: if the UFC ran last night’s show, you’d have heard about what great talent Jeffrey Resto and the Argentine Bantam were, touting their records and histories. You didn’t hear that because HBO has no incentive to lie to you. They’re actually something akin to objective, which the UFC is during broadcasts about as often as Hailey’s Comet swings by earth.
I was talking only about main card under fights. Not under card fights. Lytle/Bradley was bad matchmaking. I dunno about Boetsch/Heath seeing that Boestch was unproven at the time and only had one fight, against an again Mateshenko, where he held his own.
Horn/Marquardt was not a complete mismatch. Horn had a chance had he taken it to the ground. Granted he’s not what he used to be but he still had a chance. Tibau is a good fighter and it just seems you aren’t giving credit to him. He’s a good BJJ fighter and Griffin is a good wrestler. It’s not a terrible mismatch.
As for Mir/Lesnar, Lesnar had always said he wanted to be tested and fight the best. He didn’t want to be coddled and brought up like a baby so they gave him a chance against Mir. And in that fight Lesnar was winning until he got over anxious. For Lesnar it was a test to see if he could hand with a former champ, which at the time he couldn’t. But I think the UFC did think Lesnar would win that fight and it would be the type of fight where an up and coming fighter would build his stock by beating a past his prime fighter. Fortunately/Unfortunately for the UFC Mir won that fight and proved he still has something left and Brock lost that fight and knew he had a lot more work to do.
The biggest problem was
they needed somebody that would at least SHOW UP TO THE BUILDING to fight JuanMa Lopez. That guy was already on the plane back to Argentina. Lopez is a devastating puncher and the future at 122 – 130 but he needs somebody that can take more than 1 good punch
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
