Dana White: Lyoto Machida Is Anderson Silva's Successor
by id1 on Dec 4, 2008 11:32 AM EST
156 comments
Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas.
In a exclusive interview with Sensei SporTV via Tatame Brazil Dana White says that Machida could become the best pound for pound fighter should Anderson Silva retire. [The full translation is available here]:
He isn’t surprised with the possible retirement of Silva after all “Anderson Silva is rich! I’d also retire if I was him”, said Dana in jest. Though he doesn’t actually believe Anderson will retire any time soon . If it does happen, the president believes Lyoto Machida will become the 'The Spiders“ successor.
I was a bit surprised to see that Dana White holds Machida in such high regard:
"Machida has everything to be the next best pound for pound fighter in MMA" said White.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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He knows he has to let him fight for the title after Thiago Silva so he’s starting the hype machine.
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good point. That hadn’t occurred to me.
by MattTil on Dec 4, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
Dana,
If Machida is so great, than how come Mr. Washed Up Tito Ortiz almost finished him in the third round.
MT
(I don’t Tito is washed up at all. But I think saying Machida is going to go to global MMA domination at this point in his career is a tad hasty.)
by MattTil on Dec 4, 2008 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
global domination isnt there yet but it could happen since he has the skills, thats what the statement means.
Dana only said that lyoto has the skills and potential, so that doesnt make it hasty..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That triangle was not as close as Joe Rogan would have had you believe as he was calling it. As I recall, and this was about six months ago so I may not be exactly right, but Machida had both arms in and did a pretty standard stack escape.
I’m not as sure about the both arms in part, though. But it was on for a second or two. It was out of nowhere and surprising because we don’t think of Tito as this great jiu jitsu guy, but the move wasn’t as close to ending the fight as some people would like to believe.
I think the fact that Machida has yet to take any significant damage in any UFC fight indicates that Dana is onto something regarding Machida’s ability level. It’s tough to compare him to Anderson Silva, though, despite their relationship, considering their fighting style is rather different from each others.
by Brett Jones on Dec 4, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they actually have a similar elusive style in striking. Silva just KOes his opponents more.. too bad they belong in the same camp.. i would love to see who wins if they go at it..
someone tape a black house sparring session pls.. thanks. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ask Travis Lutter about how effective “almost” triangling Silva was.
by George Lucas on Dec 4, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
skill wise i have to agree.. Machida has the blueprint to be like anderson in a way that he could decisively beat everyone in the division and be top p4p. But to exciting KO finishes like silva? maybe not as much.
but hey, dana didnt say that, he only said lyoto has top p4p skills.
that being said, i hope machida KOes Thiago. I think that this is a perfect matchup to produce an exciting KO for machida. Thiago always pushes forward, but he isnt as technical as the other fighters so i doubt that he’d be able to touch machida, let alone beat him.. I think machida keeps on tagging thiago as he keeps on pressing forward, he wears him down, then eventually land a KO blow.
PS
i bet people will start having a flaming war saying stuff like ‘hell no, machida is boring’ blahblahblah..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Machida is about the one of the few guys who might be able to beat Silva, imo.
Can you picture Tito fighting Silva? Lol.
Matt: the key is ALMOST. He spent the other three rounds looking like a chump.
by toxic on Dec 4, 2008 11:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
All I am saying is Machida is at least a year away from being in any best P4P conversation. I agree that Tito looked like a chump for virtually all of the fight.
by MattTil on Dec 4, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nobody’s saying he’ll be best p4p now. dana just said he has the tools to be best p4p. He hasnt even won the belt yet. Plus he’d have to defend it a couple of times to be considered top p4p.. That’ll surely take more than a year.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tito looked like he was trying to fight.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha. i guess you think machida didnt want to? hahaha. I guess for machida beating tito up real bad is not fighting but just making friends or something?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how you look at it. You could say that Machida fought a smart fight, but what does that really mean? To me it means he fought to not lose the fight. For each round he did something “cool” but nothing consistent or nothing that was screaming out to the fans to notice him. I’m sorry, but the fact that he was put up against Tito Ortiz – meant he should have laid it all out and he didn’t. Same for Rashad Evans. If you’ve watched the UFC for any amount of time you’ll have noticed a pattern of those opponents that fight Tito Ortiz and win – they become stars ala Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture.
I’ll join the Machida hype machine when he proves that he’s in the UFC to fight.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy was a star even before he beat tito.. The win over Liddell was even bigger than his win over tito..
…interesting avatar. haha. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You likey?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His win over Tito put him over the top because Tito was so much younger and more feared at the time for his ground and pound.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yup i agree, it did. and so did the liddell fight, the tim sylvia fight, and the gonzaga fight..
all those fights are big fights for randy.. But, tito didnt make randy a star.
do all tito fans dislike machida? hehe. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, he's in the UFC to WIN.
And be the best fighter in the world. To do that, though, you gotta WIN. I’m already a cog in that hype machine. Dude is badass.
by subo on Dec 4, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have to agree with that. At the same token. Machida frustrates a lot of opponents with his style. It isn’t that he isn’t fighting but that he spends more time working defense than he does offense in order to take guys by surprise when he does go for a punch or a takedown or something.
by dropkick101 on Dec 4, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason the dude isn’t on p4p lists now is because top guys don’t want to fight him.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually want to see Tito and Anderson fight.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have to disagree on the chump bit
Tito stalked Machida the whole fight. How that makes him a chump is beyond me. Machida landed 1 good strike the whole 3 rounds. He danced around like he was Kalib Starnes the rest of the fight. If that is what you like in MMA, more power to you. I myself prefer a little more contact.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Dec 4, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes sir, I like a fight to look like a fight and not a dance or that childhood game of “catch, kiss, and get a lil bit.”
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's ridiculous
This argument is so tired. Tito got dominated. It isn’t a dance, it’s a fight.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dont u just hate it when 'educated' fans compare him to kalib starnes? haha. that line is stupid and is just getting old..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The fight was just on UFC unleased 2 weeks ago. Rewatch the fight. Clearly Machida won a decision. But its just as ridiculous to say machida “dominated” the fight. He showed good movement. But he didnt really throw any combos. It was more like a point karate match than an MMA fight. Again, some people might like to watch point karate. I prefer more contact than that. If it makes me “uneducated” then so be it.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Dec 4, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said Aaron
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your preference of fighting styles doesnt make you uneducated. Comparing him to kalib starnes does. You said machida clearly won a decision, Kalib didnt even throw a punch and lost by the biggest margin in UFC history. To compare the two is just dumb.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im comparing the fact that both guys ran backwards for 90% of their fights.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Dec 4, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
running backwards and countering is different.. i wont even argue about this anymore cause if you dont know the difference of kalib starnes vs quarry and machida then goodluck.. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know it never ceases to amaze me, that people will criticize Machida for fighting a smart fight, working to his strengths and following a good game plan, BUT they will not criticize Tito for doing very little and having a crap game plan when everyone knew what Machida was all about.
Now I’m not saying Machida is the end-all-be-all, but how about blaming the guy who LOST the fight?
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tito's lack of game-plan
does not somehow expunge the disinteresting nature of Machida’s style.
Be holier-than-thou about how ‘real fans appreciate Machida’s style,’ but the truth is he’s a turn-off to many fans. This is the real reason why Dana is pimping him as the next p4p guy, because he needs a marketing shtick and can’t provide one for himself, but everyone and their sister knows he deserves to be in the championship mix.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 4, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on, how am I “holier than thou” about this? I am not a machida superfan or anything, and I don’t think he is the world’s most exciting fighter. However, I appreciate him and I am fine not seeing a Griffin/Bonnar slugfest in every fight. I don’t think I would call him disinteresting, but that is just my own opinion. I have not written that anyone who doesn’t appreciate his style, is not a real mma fan anywhere. To each his own, that is the beauty of MIXED martial arts, there is something for everyone.
Of course Dana is promoting his product, but he also needs to promote Anderson, who may be the most exciting fighter, but is not a ppv draw.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I came off too directed
in my previous post. I was reacting to the general attitude that seems to surround the Machida-backers, which says that if you can’t appreciate his style (which I do) then you’re not an educated MMA fan. I didn’t mean to single you out as much as my previous post appeared. My apologies, BJ.
I think you and I see the issue similarly. I just get so sick of people extolling Machida’s virtues while snickering at the people who point out his flaws (doesn’t finish fights, fights entirely defensive gameplans).
Again, my apologies.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 6, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem at all!
I absolutely see where you are coming from and I can’t stand that attitude either or the I have been around since day 1 of mma people as well.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 7, 2008 3:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I think we pretty much agree on the bottom line here??
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To Sensei SporTV?
I don’t buy the whole “Dana inflation” argument. He said it and he meant it.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Ortiz.html
Check out the first two rounds, specifically round one where Tito landed ZERO punches. That is domination.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Actually
Ortiz wasn’t even close to subbing Machida.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’d have to disagree with that. While the triangle wasn’t locked tight enough to cause a tap, it was tight enough that Machida wa having difficulty getting out. If Tito was able to push his hips out to the side a little more, things would have been different. By the way, I hate Tito. I’m just calling it likeI see it.
by dropkick101 on Dec 4, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And I seen one arm in not two like someone else said earlier.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was good enough for some control, but no sub could have come out of there. The outside leg – the one that goes behind the arm which remains in – was way too high up the arm. That shoulder being outside the triangle meant that all Machida had to do was yank really hard, and he could clear. It also meant that his own arm was not being pressed into the side of his neck, which renders the triangle mostly ineffective as a choke. I get triangles that tight on opponents all the time, and I suck at BJJ. The usually get out of them and beat the piss out of me. THe bigger threat was that Tito would bait and roll the triangle into an armbar, but he never really did.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Dec 4, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Machida has everything?
“Machida has everything to be the next best pound for pound fighter in MMA” said White.
Yes, everything but a title shot …
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Dec 4, 2008 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get why people act like it’s a great injustice that Machida hasn’t gotten a title shot yet.
Forrest’s win over Shogun and Rashad’s win over Chuck are more deserving of a title shot than anything Machida has done in the UFC. A big win over Thiago will help him in the discussion, but I wouldn’t have a problem with the winner of Rampage/Wandy getting the shot instead.
Machida is a good fighter and the fact that he’s undefeated is impressive, but there are a lot of bigger names with comparable talent in that division, to get a title shot you need some big wins, and Machida just doesn’t have them right now.
by Phildo on Dec 4, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Phildo For The Win
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so a win over chuck liddell, is better than beating tito, soko, rich franklin, bj penn, and bonner?
so if you want to see which one has bigger names on their resume..
Machida’s undefeated record > Rashad’s undefeated record..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Franklin and Penn fights were a LONG time ago….and didn’t take place in the UFC. Also, Evans has a better finish rate than Machida
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Half of those fighters he beat early in their career. And BJ Penn, really? Beating a LW, no matter how good, is zero justification for any shot at LHW.
Not to mention, Rashad’s record ain’t half bad either. He also has a win over Bonnar as well as Bisping.
Its not like Rashad is a clear favorite for a title shot. Its simply an example where nobody has set themselves apart yet. Of course, Machida hasn’t been given the opportunity to set himself apart yet, but forcing a fighter to really prove themselves when they keep going to decision is standard operating practice for the UFC.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 4, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
im okay with machida not getting a title shot yet since he doenst have much exposure with the casual fans yet. Im also okay with rashad getting a title shot.
But to say that rashad has a better resume? cmon man.. He has 2 relevant fights. He has a draw with tito and a win over chuck. He beat soko bad at the time when soko was knocking out noguiera and arona. He beat up tito bad. Lyoto beat rich at only his 3rd pro fight. he beat bj at his 6th fight. Who was rashad beating? Bryan Pardoe and brad imes.. OOoooh those are such big names..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When did I say Rashad has a better record? And you keep bringing up a lot of fights that happened outside the octagon, and the lost bloom of Soko’s glory. Give it up. The win over Liddell is much bigger than anything Machida has done, and that ends up being the deciding factor.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 4, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was referring to the statement of phildo when he said that rashad has bigger wins than machida.
all i said was machida has a better resume, that was all im saying dude. relax. I dont even think that rashad doesnt deserve the title shot. Or that it is a travesty that machida doesnt have a title shot yet..
If you read the comment i wrote below i said that even boring fighters like rashad can get a title shot after a highlight reel KO.. so i was hoping that machida would get a title shot if he gets a highlight reel KO from thiago, if not, then i want machida to fight big named fighters like rampage, so if he wins them he would eventually get a title shot.
youre getting your panties all in a bunch thinking im a guy who thinks that its an injustice that lyoto doesnt have a title shot, when im not. When all i said was he has fought better competition. Thats all. relax. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Machida is deserving of a title shot. So is Rashad. The winner of Rampage/Wand will be deserving, too. When all that is weighed together, Machida is simply a victim of circumstance. He was brought along slowly and his past three fights or so have been against pretty big names. Problem is that his competitors for the belt have also been fighting top guys and winning.
Rashad is more deserving than Machida based on his similar undefeated record but gets the nod for scoring a vicious KO of a former champ in a PPV main event. If Machida had finished Tito this would be a different argument. He didn’t.
by dropkick101 on Dec 4, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Imes is 100 pounds heavier than BJ.
by bigweeze on Dec 4, 2008 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A win over BISPING!?!?!
Well why don’t we just coronate the guy already. He beat a fighter who is probably a top 15-20 MW and not even a top 25 LHW.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Rashad knocking out chuck is better than everything you mentioned.
It was a great KO, it happened in the Octagon, and it happened in September.
by Phildo on Dec 4, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Phildo
Machida is talented, but nowhere near Anderson’s level. Anderson is a killer, and cleaned out his division and would be favored to do the same at 205. He stops fights, and dominates. Machida doesn’t deliver much damage, goes to decisions against average fighters, and has many round where he barely does anything but play defense. Machida has also not earned a title shot yet, and beating similarly untested Thiago Silva won’t put him there.
by Hardcharger on Dec 4, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and has many round where he barely does anything but play defense
Did you see Anderson’s last fight?
by George Lucas on Dec 4, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rashad deserves a title shot less than Machida because he couldn’t beat Ortiz and Machida could.
Forrest deserved a title shot less than Machida because he lost to Ortiz and was absolutely flattened by Jardine.
by George Lucas on Dec 4, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am a fan of machida and he deserves a title shot in the near future BUT…
fans will not accept him as a P4P king unless he starts devastatingly finishing fights.
Not saying this is how it should be, just how I think the fans view him.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is how it should be. To be considered a pound-for-pound king you need to not only win but win in dominating fashion. With the exception of the Sokodjou finish, Machida has consistently looked technically superior to his opponents but unable to dominate them in impressive fashion. Therein lies the difference.
by dropkick101 on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can dominate a fight without inflicting tremendous amounts of damage if you aren’t getting hit.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Machida better start getting exciting quick or it won’t matter how many people he beats. Dana won’t put a boring figter in the big money fights.
by lbk on Dec 4, 2008 11:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
rashad evans.. He’s boring as hell, but since he KOed chuck, he gets the title shot. WHEN machida beats thiago, (hopefully via highlight reel KO) he could get a title shot. If not, then at least a fight with a high profile challenger. I wanna see him against guys like rampage if he doesnt get his shot..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think Thiago is going to pulverize his face and this will all be a non issue.
by lbk on Dec 4, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think so too. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me 2
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All 3 of you will eat crow.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think machida wins. I just clicked the wrong reply button (im a dumbass haha). Look at the post i wrote above, i said WHEN machida beats thiago.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oops. clicked the wrong reply button haha. This was supposed to be for michaelthebox’s post bellow..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree based on the fact that Thiago comes to the Octagon to fight. Here’s a list of fighters that come to the cage to fight that Machida could watch:
Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, Thiago Alves, Miguel Torres, Urijah Faber, even Gina Carano.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect (hope) that Machida will come out and tear Thiago Silva a new asshole. People are so used to Machida being slow and elusive, they forget that he can smash people when he wants to. For example, at the end of the first round against Tito, out of nowhere he takes Tito down and starts drilling Tito in the head.
One of these days Machida will wake up to the value of aggression. When he does, look out.
by Michaelthebox on Dec 4, 2008 12:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he waited for the last 10 seconds to do that.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. He doesn’t take the necessary risks involved in becoming a champion, or at the least a favorite among fans.
by dropkick101 on Dec 4, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since when do you need to take risks to become a champion?
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Machida dodges everything Silva throws and counters with lightning quick outside jabs, foot sweeps and leg kicks for 3 rounds to a unanimous decision, then does the same thing in his title shot, then defends his title over and over the same way.
by George Lucas on Dec 4, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watched his fights again…how freaking fast are those leg kicks?
by iiowyn on Dec 5, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo Dana
I find a lot of the criticisms of Machida, for his lack of finishing fights of late, needless. I’d like to think a lot of the people in this community are more advanced students of the game than the Affliction shirt wearing bunch I see at the bar on fight night chest bumping each other when someone starts bleeding. Referencing my recent reply to the Torres: Overrated fanpost, Machida is actually the outside individual I would include in the sixth MMA-sense argument along with the current (most widely regarded) P4P best (Fedor, Silva, GSP, Penn, Faber, Torres). I find his fluidity, decision making and individual skill sets give him credibility among hardcores, who are not exactly sightseers (myself and Dana included), to suggest that he will be a dominating force in this sport for some time to come.
(PS— and I digress— but I think that as soon as Maia knocks someone out, he will join this conversation.)
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree on your points, except on the last part. Maia, maybe not since he’s on the same weight as silva.. He’s reallyyyyy good, but in my opinion, you cant put him among those guys as best p4p if he cant win his division..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can be in the discussion for P4P if you are in the same weight class as someone else who is. Note that I didn’t crown him, just that he could be considered. What’s to say he’s not the champ by the time in question? Maybe Silva is gone or, gasp, he taps him? Time will tell, I suppose.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well ya, i agree, the only thing that could put him atop of those rankings if silva retires, or he beats him.. But in my opinion, i think that more likely, 2 guys in a weight class wouldnt be considered as much in pfp discussions as the champ in another division is. But i guess it could happen. Much like tito and chuck before.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can you make a top ten..
…if you can’t include more fighters than weight classes?
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i get your point, but i just said that cause you were mentioning the top 5 or 6 guys. Maybe maia has a chance to crack the top 10 with a big win. Maybe even the top 5, but i just find it unlikely with names such as fedor silva gsp penn and torres dominating the list. Maybe if one of them drops, then it could happen. but who knows right?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah..
I don’t mean to necessarily have a top five or six, but I wouldn’t compile a forceful top ten. If there’s a guy at 185 that could, P4P, win a fight with, say, BJ Penn— but may not be able to defeat Silva, he could be applicable; albeit below Silva. That’s my take..
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh and blackout, youre the same blackout with the MMA channel in justin.tv or myp2p right?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Machida has everything why is it that he doesn’t finish fights, Dana?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 12:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Winning fights is the indication of your ability. That’s why it’s called winning. There isn’t a fourth designated spot in records for finishing fights.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Understandably so, but in order to be a fan favorite or desired to be watched – give me a reason to want to see you fight. Machida gives me none, watching him is like watching the World Combat League or whatever it’s called (the Chuck Norris fight competition show)
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's talking about fan favorites?
P4P has nothing to do with popularity.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Who is going to buy a ppv card with Machida as the main event? Not casual fans.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a reminder that casual fans outnumber hardcore fans – we know that given the number of people who watched EliteXC
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do u even know what pfp means?
it has nothing to do with selling tickets.. Let go of your tito glasses and MAYBE, just maybe youd see things clearly..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I have not said anything about p4p.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you're in the wrong thread
You began by arguing Dana’s stance. That is his stance.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lt has nothing to do with fan favorites.
lots of people hate gayweather, but he was top pfp in boxing..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mayweather was/is disliked for his attitude not his skills.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats besides the point. He has relatively few fans and he’s the top pfp. If it was based on popularity, dela hoya would be best pfp..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am talking about watchability and not pfp – I have not said one thing about p4p.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
uhh, the article is about pfp. “he has everything it takes to be top P4P”..
and as black out said, “Winning fights is the indication of your ability. That’s why it’s called winning. There isn’t a fourth designated spot in records for finishing fights.”
tito nuthuggers just sound smarter by the day.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See my comment below – I am not nuthugging any fighter btw. I am just trying to prove a point that all the fighters who are considered p4p are exciting, dominant fighters who are fan favorites. They are fighters that fans want to watch fight. I don’t feel that Machida falls into that category.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. Domestically (US), more people bought Mayweather’s fight against Hatton than every MMA event in history bar one. I’d say someone out there likes him.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more love to hate thing, I think. Floyd’s been a pretty poor draw outside of the DLH and Hatton fight.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. People hate his “boring” defensive style too. Guy would be uber popular if he crushed guys like Tyson AND had the same personality.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love this statement
Instead of saying ‘yeah he’s good, but the casual fans hate him,’ Dana says the truth, which is dude hasn’t been beaten for a reason.
by subo on Dec 4, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
When you consider some of the top p4p fighters you have to weigh in the fact that they are dominant fighters who are fan favorites. Case in point, Georges St. Pierre, BJ Penn, Fedor, Urijah Faber, and Anderson Silva to name a few.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
again, gayweather was top p4p even if people dont like him as much as manny pacquiao, who also is a dominant fighter with good skills. even if mayweather has relatively few fans, he just has better skills. That is why he was top pfp.
Those fighters you mentioned are considered top pfp because they are skilled.. That is also the reason why they are fan favorites. It is not the other way around where they get to be top p4p because they also have lots of fans.. If fedor was an arrogant bastard and keeps on bad mouthing everyone, but he still destroys everyone in his path, he’d still be considered on the top of pfp lists regardless.
If you dont understand that then there’s no point in continuing this arguement.
You dont even know what youre talking about, so im gonna go to sleep instead of wasting my time on the internet with people like you.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 4, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no need to insult me because we do not agree on something.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What?
Their popularity, in those cases, is a result of their abilities. People like good fighters. It’s not exactly a shocking correlation. P4P has NOTHING to do with popularity. MMA fighters don’t fuckin Hulk out.
PS; three of your five are not huge draws. Maybe you should abandon ship on this one..
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Granted that 3 of the 5 are not huge draws they are fan favorites.
My point has been lost and the insults are a bit uncalled for since this is a discussion.
Dana’s point was that Machida has everything to become the next p4p after Anderson Silva – my point is that he is not a exciting and/or dominating fighter – like Silva, GSP, Fedor, Urijah or Miguel Torres. He is not drawing in too many fans as well.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is organic, it seems
As for insults, I’m going to assume that was misdirected.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have not received any insults from you Blackout – so yes, I misdirected that line – I was speaking in reference to another on the site.
Organic as in fundamental?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Your point is unclear and you are redefining it. My point is that P4P has nothing to do with popularity, or that P4P is the horse and popularity is the cart. You’re not a great fighter as a result of your fanfare. Your point has become that if a guy is great he’ll be popular. It wasn’t originally.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You build up a fanfare because you are a great fighter.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fan favorites is a misstatement that confuses the truth.
In reality, they’re favorites of certain sets of fans.
The set of fans that likes GSP is much, much, much bigger than the set that likes Fedor, for instance.
Regardless, I’m having trouble understanding what point you’re going for. Are you suggesting that Machida can’t be considered P4P until fans like him?
by Michaelthebox on Dec 4, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am saying that it will be hard for him to take Anderson Silva’s place as he is not exciting or dominating. He may be winning fights, but he is not winning casual fans or reaching stardom for that matter. Tell me who is all that excited in the 205 division to fight Machida?
I then related that too other fighters who are exciting and dominating that are fan favorites as well. As someone else noted above Dana is making no reference to the fact that Machida is not a fan favorite (paraphrase) just that he has everything to be the next p4p.
I am not a Machida hater mind you – I am just saying he is hard to watch. I know he fights smart and elusive but I don’t think I am alone when I say that I like to see fighters engage and make contact every so often.
I noticed that on the post with the Machida interview he says that in the UFC early days that BJJ was boring – I don’t recall it being boring at all and that BJJ is what elevated mixed martial arts.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you keep mentioning Faber as a top P4P guy instead of mentioning the guy who just mugged him?
by FRANKIE on Dec 4, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s exciting and dominating and that is what fans tune in to see. Brown just hasn’t had the long run that Urijah has had.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s 20-4 and on an 8 win streak at the moment.
by Richard Wade on Dec 4, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Long run at being champion, I should say.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
St. Pierre got crushed by Matt Serra, tapping to strikes. Penn’s dominance is confined to 155. Faber got flattened on an elbow that would be sloppy for women’s basketball. Silva got his ankle twisted nearly off by Chonan.
Yet Machida keeps winning, flawlessly.
by George Lucas on Dec 4, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Faber got flattened on an elbow that would be sloppy for women’s basketball.
You so almost got rec’d for that – then you had to give Silva shit for Chonan. How many people seriously train for the flying scissor sweep to heel hook?
by subo on Dec 4, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one trains for it because only a total scrub would get caught in one. :)
by George Lucas on Dec 5, 2008 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Until Machida realies (I’m sure he knows by now..) it’s a spectator sport and more about putting on a good fight and risking a loss rather than grinding out a boring win, he will never headline and he will never make the money Chuck and similar fighters command.
People don’t pay $50 to watch a guy win a boring fight. They pay $50 to see a fight. And that’s what they want. Win, lose or draw. A damned good fight.
by lbk on Dec 4, 2008 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Machida is great for the UFC
You either love him or you hate him. Indifference is what will get you dropped faster than you can say “Werdum!”
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if I would categorize him like that. Tito is a guy you love or hate. Machida is a guy most think is boring. Bit of a difference.
by lbk on Dec 4, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never get that “boring” label since he’s not really boring. He waits for his opportunity and when it comes, he pounces. Most people who wants two guys take turn punching each other label him boring. Most hardcores appreciate his style.
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
The “hardcore” label is as ignorant here as it is in videogames and most other situations. It’s nothing but elitist tripe.
And the problem is that he doesn’t pounce, hence his lack of finishes. The point that Ibk made is valid. Machida is not a love or hate guy. He’s a guy most people think is boring. And they won’t tune in to watch him lose like with Tito. They just won’t tune in.
by ricker2005 on Dec 4, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardcores as people who follow MMA religiously. I don’t understand why that’s elitist. Nowhere did I state that hardcore fans are qualitatively better than casual fans.
Now, if you think he’s boring, would you say that you don’t like him as well? Or are you in the camp who think he’s boring but you love him?
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Calling people ignorant for use of widely regarded verbage is elitist
It’s a term of convenience. Get over it.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be surprised by what happens to Machida if he gets knocked out by Thiago. I don’t expect it, but really, a release would not shock me at all.
by Michael Rome on Dec 4, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, he still has to win. However, I highly doubt that Dana would drop him after one loss. He’s a pretty popular guy with his ghost fighting style (I refuse the term elusive).
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see any way that happens, personally.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh…considering he’s buddy buddy with the MW and Interim HW champ, I think this would be a bad business decision by Dana. Wouldn’t shock me, but would still be slightly surprising.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. He definitely has the tools. He isn’t right now, but in 1-2 years I can see it. I love Machida. He’s sort of the Zen spiritual samurai warrior. Completely focused on the fight and winning. He seems to generate strength way beyond his size, as witnessed when he completely dominated Soku and tossed Tito into the fence like a rag-doll. He doesn’t do a lot of jabbering about his opponent, he just focuses on himself. I loved the clips of him eating his wife’s cooking in his humble home. The dude is just a straight up stud. His title shot has to be coming soon. If not after Silva, then the next fight after. Dana’s smart to start hyping this guy.
One thing to consider: he’s rarely in trouble and even when in trouble he never panics. He moves like an animal, inhuman like reflexes and instincts matched only by the spider and GSP.
An interesting match would be GSP and Machida at MW. That’s a fight I’d pay to see.
by Dooda on Dec 4, 2008 5:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
As nice as this is, a lot has to go Machida’s way for him to get a title shot next, besides beating Thiago Silva.
1) Forrest has to win—they will never main event a show with something like Rashad vs. Machida
2) Wanderlei has to lose—if Wand beats Rampage he will get the shot first.
3) If Rampage wins, Machida needs his court case to drag out, because Rampage-Forrest II is gigantic and only legal issues could keep it from happening.
by Michael Rome on Dec 4, 2008 5:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If Rashad..
KO’s Forrest I think they’d be willing to put Rashad/Machida as Rashad will have a rep building as a finisher.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Machida is the shit and for sure the next LHW champ. Forrest even admitted he wouldn’t want to fight him. He might have to though if he loses to Rashad.
by J_Maddux on Dec 4, 2008 9:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ah.. Good call
A lot of people have forgotten about that comment, myself included.
by Blackout612 on Dec 4, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody wants to lose their title in a boring decision. Has a Machida fight ever glued anyone here to their seats? During a Machida fight you can get up and go to the fridge or the bathroom because you know there won’t be any HOLY SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT?!?!?! moments.
by Ubernoober on Dec 5, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, because that's what Forrest meant
He’s not confident he’d be able to hurt him enough and would lose a boring decision. Totally..
by Blackout612 on Dec 5, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Forrest thinks he can beat Machida, then what does it matter if the fight is boring or not? He would have defeated the previously undefeated. Everybody is ducking Machida and that’s a fact.
If you’re a fan of Machida then you’d be glued to your seats watching his fights. That’s the way sports work. A boring 1-0 baseball game is gripping if you’re a fan of one of the teams. And Machida is far from boring. How could anyone look at the Ortiz fight and think that it was Machida that was boring? Machida threw more strikes, landed more, and attacked more aggressively when opportunities open up. People need to be more fair and balanced instead of hating on a fighter because he doesn’t fight like Houston Alexander. Everyone’s different and MMA is not a toughman contest.
by cyph on Dec 5, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Machida has a lot of holy shit moments, he just doesn’t have the continued brawling or in your face action. As a matter of fact, Machida’s game plays to the holy shit moments.
by iiowyn on Dec 5, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There was the jumping scissor karate kick on Tito. Not to mention the way he tossed him into the fence like a rag doll. Tito was so much bigger. I personally don’t find the constant pushing forward to be entertaining in and of itself if it’s just an attempt to get a take down or to throw punches with no creativity.
by Dooda on Dec 5, 2008 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I “Holy SHIT” when he Brazilian kicked Tito…Also when he makes pro fighters look like amateurs…
by Mike Fagan on Dec 5, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has a Machida fight ever glued anyone here to their seats?
Yeah, I was totally glued to the seat during the Tito fight, but I am a big Machida fan. I can think of quite a few “did you see that?” moments during that fight.
a) Machida throwing Tito to the ground like a rag-doll, pinning his arm and smashing him with elbows, only stopped by Tito being saved by the bell
b) The switch kick to the head
c) The knee liver-shot
d) Tito getting frustrated and going “Come on!!” then Machida immediately hitting him in the face with a two-punch combination before Tito could even blink :) Laughed my ass off
by brad23 on Dec 8, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
s/fighter/eluder/g
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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