TUF's Controversy Sends Wrong Message About MMA
by dmayeda on Dec 4, 2008 9:49 AM EST
96 comments
Promoted by Kid Nate.
I was boycotting TUF this season. Prior to last night, the most I'd seen of any TUF 8 episode was one or two of Phillipe Nover's fights. However, after watching Miguel Torres dissect Manny Tapia, I was drawn into watching TUF, intrigued by a commercial showing Junie Browning throw a glass at another contestant.
Based on Nevada's Revised Statutes, Junie Browning's actions warranted an arrest, likely for a misdemeanor assault or at the least for terroristic threatening. Instead of booting Junie from the show, Dana White asked the other contestants if Junie should be expelled or fight Efrain Escudero as a kind of punishment under the presumption that Escudero would win given Browning's insecurities. Honestly, was anybody surprised that the fighters decisively chose to have Browning remain on the show and face his fears by competing?
As we now know, Browning lost. However, his loss did not represent justice by any means. His loss was convenient. The fact that Browning was allowed to fight at all was an injustice to MMA and hypocritical. The UFC and Dana White have done a great deal to legitimize MMA as a sport and disassociate it from street violence. But on episode 12 of TUF 8, MMA was turned into an arbitrating institution for non-sporting violence.
Rather than expel Browning from the show, as Dana White said should have been done three times, sanctioned mixed martial arts competition was used as a means to settle a violent non-sporting conflict. Not only had Browning just committed a violent offense, but he and his opponent (Efrain Escudero) apparently also had a strong disliking for each other. Hence the solution? - Throw 'em in the cage.
I suppose this makes for good ratings. Heck, the commercial finally got me to watch a full episode of this season of TUF. But what message is the UFC - the world's premier MMA organization - sending about sanctioned mixed martial arts? That one of its functions is to solve street violence?
MMA is evolving; we just witnessed its positive evolution via the great mainstream sports media coverage of UFC 91. Why bring the sport back down by turning it into an institution that manipulates our concept of justice?
David Mayeda, PhD, is lead author of Fighting for Acceptance: Mixed Martial Artists and Violence in American Society
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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A lot of things are at risk if TUF can somehow hazard one’s concept of justice.
by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 4, 2008 6:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A reality show is not the real world it is television entertainment. If this wasn’t about television entertainment they wouldn’t lock these guys up Big Brother style and devote the majority of the show every season to drunken antics of guys locked into a house with no radio, books, tv or outside contact. Did Dana keep Junie for tv ratings? Of course he did, it is a television program after all, if they portrayed these guys as decent upstanding citizens then the show would of bombed in the ratings years ago.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dana’s reasoning is simple. Junie gets booted off, is still undefeated and the #1 overall pick on TUF, gets signed by some regional promotion or wanna-be major player like Affliction, gets fed a can, talking shit all the while. Now, he’s gotten beaten decisively once, and I think he will again in the finale. Remember, that one counts.
There have been some amazing fights this season. Just mute the show the rest of the time and listen to The Low Blow on Fightlinker or something. I recently started listening and I’m hooked.
by subo on Dec 4, 2008 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Low Blow = awesome
It’s got the juvenile stupidity of TUF, but it actually helps MMA rather than hurting it. How that’s possible, I don’t know.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Dec 4, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have defended this season’s TUF before. However, I am in total agreement with you on this matter. Dana White is a hypocrite. He will release people on a whim because they’re boring but will hold on to a fighter tooth and nails because he brings in ratings. It’s pathetic and we have seen right through his facade. The message is out: you can be the scourge of humanity but as long as you bring in ratings, you can maim, spit, destroy, anything short of murder.
The problem is that Dana White has set a precedent before by dropping a fighters for their transgressions outside of TUF. He needs to be consistent or don’t do it at all.
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesse Taylor got another chance to fight in the UFC as well
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was kicked off the show...
and out of the finale and “got his shit straight” though. A point was made to him that certain behavior will not be tolerated. No such point was made by Dana by giving Junie chance after chance with no punishment.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t dispute that he got kicked off. That’s a matter of public record. My point is, he too got another chance. It’s not as though Dana banished him forever.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no...
but what was Junie’s punishment? where was the message sent to Junie? A THIRD talking to from Dana? Why should he believe him that this is his last chance when he’s already been given two prior to this?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Thank You Dana, I promise you I wont let you down.” -JB
I just laughed when I heard that. Of course not you “retard”, the show is over.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 4, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said Junie should stay. My point is, Dana does give second chances, even if you’re a boring, lay n pray fighter like Jesse Taylor.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...good thing...
for Junie that he also gives fourth chances…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
He took Taylors chance at winning TUF away. Pretty fucked up. IMO he really didn’t like Taylor. For some reason he hugs Junies. Even though Dana went out and asked the other fighters what to do he really didn’t ask. He told them what to do. I bet if there were a private closed voting Junie woulda been out quick!
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Taylor took his own chance away
Going around sexually harassing women in a Fertita casino was not something Dana did.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that lobster guy, who got kicked out for merely instigating a fight between two other guys.
by mythbuster on Dec 4, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey the Monsta Lobsta got another UFC fight too, probably bribed Dana with a free seafood dinner.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JT Money
got booted because he was getting arrested in a Vegas casino. The PR damage is more containable if you commit assault in the TUF house.
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m getting to the point where I don’t buy the argument anymore. Stupid people have been doing stupid things in the TUF house since season one. Amazingly, the only people I see admonishing MMA or the UFC for this are the hardcore fans and the MMA “blogosphere” (groan). At some point we have to accept that no one really cares how foolish people act on this television show and that, in fact, these acts can be effective for future promotion of the fighters (see: Koscheck and Leben).
I don’t like to compare MMA to other sports, particularly team based sports, but if we’re going to feign concern over foolish and/or illegal behavior, well let’s all boycott the NFL. After all, that league employs drug dealers, drug users, accessories to murder, guys who commit battery (often times against women), and morons who carry unlicensed handguns into the club in the waistband of his sweatpants, then fires the gun in the club and shoots himself. And while it’s totally fine that the NFL employs these individuals under a supposedly strict Commissioner, we in the MMA world get worked up because some geek likes to get drunk and throw glasses at people in a setting designed to very much provoke similar behavior.
Of course, it’s completely ridiculous to lament to sad state of the NFL because several employees of the league act a fool. The majority of players are law abiding and the overall product is entertaining. The same goes for MMA. So until a Mixed Martial Artist on TUF or otherwise does something to truly adversely affect the sport, to prevent it in some way from continuing to make money, doing something that is so appaling that the entertainment value of the sport is secondary to the act committed, then I would ask that folks get down from their high horse and let the folks actually affected by the situations deal with them as they feel appropriate.
by Brett Jones on Dec 4, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you in parts. The problem is that Dana has set a precedence. He dropped people for the same reasons that he kept Junie on. That’s pathetic.
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
You have to remember that Jesse Taylor’s instance is different in that the stuff he did was in the general public. Whereas, Junie’s antics were all enclosed to the house. Had Junie thrown a glass/bottle at someone while they were out in the public, I’m pretty sure he would have gotten the Jesse Taylor treatment as well.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps. However, I remember fighters got kicked out for fighting each on the show. Is that any different than a fighter attacking another with a weapon unprovoked? I don’t think so.
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Marlon and Noah were kicked off for fighting.
Junie did swing at “Show Me” but missed terribly.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 4, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm,
The guy cut someone, threatened to smash a bottle on someones head and finally just throws a glass at another fighter and swings at him and thats not enough? You dont “beat him off” (lol), he doesnt deserve to fight damnit!!!
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 4, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree with you more...
Luke, hire this guy!!
by steveoc24 on Dec 5, 2008 4:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
It’s not that big of a deal!
by Patrick79x on Dec 5, 2008 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that the Efrain/Junie fight was street violence being solved in the cage. We all knew coming into last night’s episode that they were going to fight in the semi-finals. We knew they didn’t like one another. Rampage and Wanderlei don’t like one another, so I suppose they shouldn’t fight at UFC 92?
If Junie committed a misdemeanor then why should he be prosecuted now? Crimes have been committed on every season of TUF and nobody has ever been charged.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 10:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the Efrain/Junie fight was not a clear-cut solution to solving street violence (or the in-house violence). However, Dana made it tied directly to Junie throwing the glass. Junie commits assault —> Dana proposes 2 solutions —> Solution choses is Junie fights Efrain.
Also, I wasn’t suggesting Junie should be prosecuted now for a misdemeanor assault or terroristic threatening; I feel the TUF house’s structure contributes so much to the fighters’ behaviors that they can’t be held totally accountable from a legal standpoint for their in-house actions. But he should have been held accountable by being removed from the show. I brought up the issues of misdemeanor assault and terroristic threatening in order to show the gravity of his actions.
by dmayeda on Dec 4, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I lost some respect for Dana by how he handled this. Junie should have been out the first incident. or the second…or the third…or the fourth.
Not only does he stay and act like a whiny baby, a stereotypical bully and an escaped mental patient, BUT he also gets on the MAIN CARD at the finale!?!?!?
Kaplan vs Junie on the main card. The 2 best fighters in TUF history…in their own minds.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Junie did make it to the semi-finals…so you could say he ‘earned’ being main card worthy on a card full of TUF fighters.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t say that at all, lol.
Seriously, Eliot and Krystof aren’t on the main card and I would say they earned it more than Junie did. The reason he is on the main card is BECAUSE of his actions in the house. Just like Dana said, he is a reality TV star now.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad. Dana White is using him as a heel but he has so much issues as a human being. He shouldn’t be trumped around for people to sneer at. The guy needs serious mental evaluations.
by cyph on Dec 4, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t agree more. This guy is the typical self-destructive personality.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry and Roop as well. so 3 out 4 of teh semi finalists are not on the main card. Of course my omission of Roop may actually show why junie is the only one on the main card.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that’s really simple, Spike understands what draws tv ratings. Junie is on the finale instead of the other guys because lots of people will tune in to see him. He was by far away the star of the show this season.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh absolutely, 100%, positively on the mark.
This is why is was left in the house, given numerous chances AND put on the televised portion.
How many people will stop and watch a train run smoothly down the track? A lot less than will stop and look at a train wreck!
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t agree with anything that happened this season on the show, of course anymore I just watch the fights (lately I have been watching Estate of Panic with my wife and catching TUF on replays or the occasional weekend marathon). Still I have teenage children and I do understand the appeal of that kind of crap to that target demographic.
As far as Junie goes, Tito Ortiz is(was) the biggest draw in the history of the sport and he’s a guy who is known for being a jackass who taunts and insults opponents, runs his mouth on every subject and left his wife for a porn star. Maybe that’s why Tito’s season of TUF was the most watched (the season where the coaches acted like children and almost got into multiple fights). Junie Browning does have some talent for MMA but more importantly he’s the redneck Nick Diaz, people are stopping the guy in the street for autographs in Las Vegas. If he’s even moderately successful in the cage we will be stuck with this jerk for years to come. Being a champion and being a star are two separate things unfortunately but that is something that happens in every sport too.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold up
The UFC is no different from any other sport. If you put 16 guys trying to get into the NFL in a house together for 2 months and fuel them with alcohol, you would see just as much, if not more violence. In fact, you could probably put 16 accountants in a house together for 2 months under these circumstances and you’d get the same results.
TUF doesn’t make men fragile. You could go into any office in the US and find 1 fragile guy out of 16. The difference is, TUF has cameras. That’s the distinction.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is not viable justification. I hope you realize that.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where am I justifying anything?
I’m offering a perspective I don’t see anyone else offering.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Using your example of the NFL. Assuming they did this and it happens as you speculate it would, the footage would NEVER be seen by the public. No way would the NFL allow their product to be disgraced in that manner.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i do agree with your concept of putting just about anyone in that position, would greatly influence their behavior, etc. Of course that doesn’t make it ok and I think the producers could have minimalized the antic…IF they had wanted to.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s the producers job to create a storyline. Preventing dudes from acting out hurts their product.
Honestly, this season was disgusting to me. Every episode had something that made me fast forward the show to the fight.
by jebushchrist on Dec 4, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re rationalizing this by using the examples of theoretical reality shows featuring similar behaviour. But there aren’t any such shows. No other sports league in this country would produce a program such as this on their own and there would be serious implications for anyone involved. Junie instead gets paid.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“No other sports league in this country would produce a program such as this”
Exactly.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What makes the UFC different from other sports is that they gleefully televise this when no one else would even consider it, much less actually do it. Would NFL players do this in the same scenario? Perhaps, but hell if the NFL wants to find out for sure.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Time to play did you know?
So, did you guys know that the episode where kaplan gets KOd by Lawler was not the original episode set to air on Spike? The FCC stepped in and made them re-edit the episode and take out some of the crude behavior.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a-HA!
I thought something was up. In the blogs and all, I read about them drinking cups of pee but I (thankfully) didn’t see that in the episode. This would explain it.
by mythbuster on Dec 4, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. The fighters were sent advance copies of each episode, in this case the original one.
Not only did Lawlor and Kaplan have a chugging contest, but our old pal Kingsbury took it to yet another level.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What other sports league has to? MMA is a sport who’s primary appeal is to 18 -24 year olds and that is where TUF is squarely targeted at. It’s on SpikeTV for goodness sake. They aren’t drawing from the NFL demographic they are drawing from the Jackass/Viva La Bam demographic.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No sport has to, including the UFC.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Before the first TUF the UFC was on the verge of folding, for good or bad that crappy reality show is the reason the sport is where it is in the US today. Other sports don’t have to do it because they were established long before “reality shows” came into existence and they don’t cater to the “Viva La Bam” demographic. The UFC has more in common demographic appeal-wise with frat parties, pro wrestling and extreme sports than it does with baseball, football and basketball. What we should be thankful for is that they contain all that adolescent crap to TUF instead of pushing every broadcast in that direction. Well we should also be thankful that TUF has served it’s purpose and is on it’s last leg.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You summed this up so much better than I was trying to...
I’ve watched this entire season and at so many points I have hit the point of “wow…he REALLY needs go be kicked out.” I wrote that TUF needs a sports psychiatrist brought in to deal with fighters like Junie and their mental issues…and was told by our readers that I am “too sensitive” and that these are adults and should be held responsible for their own actions.
But the problem is that Junie was NOT held responsible for his actions because he is a ratings booster. So rather than be dealt with to either work to address his problems or be dealt with by punishing him for his actions…he was not only allowed to fight for a spot in the finals, he is also being given a televised spot on the finale. If that isn’t a reward for his actions I don’t know what is.
The truth is that Dana HAS kicked fighters off for fighting in the past. Junie was in violation of his contract which specifies physical assault as an action which would result in expulsion from the house. I have heard that clause as verified in contracts by multiple sources.
The truth is that Dana and the brass are able to do this because they control the media in a lot of ways. No one that has access to push Dana on why this decision was made will ask it…the sites that would ask the question (such as BloodyElbow) will likely never be presented with an opportunity to do so. And if you want to have access you had better learn to not just be some “computer nerd with a blog” questioning their decisions.
I get that the UFC is great and we all love it. But a lot of the defending of the decision is just coming from people who just don’t want to criticize the UFC.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
God...
the truth is…that I shouldn’t have used the truth is so much. The truth is…I shouldn’t multi-task while I try to write coherent thoughts.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want to be a f-ing president?
I thought Dana was going to hug him at one point. Dana should have lubed up and let Junie do it right. Dana’s not a hard a$$, he’s a money grubbing executive that will sell his soul for the right price.
He doesn’t care if Junie killed a fighter in the house, in fact, as long as it was one of the worse fighters he would prefer it for the ratings. He sees Junie as a quick buck.
by Bruiser on Dec 4, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Gabe Ruediger wasn’t allowed to fight in Cali for K-1 because of his “irrational actions” on TUF? In retrospect, seeing NSAC allow Junie to fight is LOL material.
by D.Capitated on Dec 4, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well the CSAC is a whole other story.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I suppose this makes for good ratings. Heck, the commercial finally got me to watch a full episode of this season of TUF.
I think the explanation of why Junie remains on the show begins and ends here. I became a mma fan by watching TUF 1. I was still in high school at the time, and was drawn in both by the fighting and the household antics. In that sense, TUF was very successful. I was in their target demographic, I watched, and now I buy their pay-per-views. I haven’t watched TUF for the past few seasons because it’s become redundant and stupid to me, but I can’t deny what drew me towards the UFC in the first place.
by Andy R on Dec 4, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm Tired of this UFC Bashing
Everyone takes every opportunity on this. Well lets be honest, these guys must know something we don’t about making the sport succeed. Last night I watched the Torres fight, a 135 guy in the UFCs sister organization, in a bar that was advertising it. The fact that MMA has gotten to this point is a miracle and we should all just stop questioning and assume they know what’s best b/c they have so far.
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yep, let’s stop asking questions or having countervailing opinions.
That’s it, folks! BloodyElbow.com is officially closed for business! It turns out we’ve become obsolete! Bon Voyage!
by Luke Thomas on Dec 4, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol. I heard Miley Cyrus is looking for a webmaster Luke!
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You would have made a good Soviet, comrade.
by mythbuster on Dec 4, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying if you have all the answers go make a better organization. Debate all you want, but don’t act like they are destroying the sport. Its just absurd considering they made the sport legit in the first place.
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is a difference in bashing the UFC and calling out the production of TUF by Zuffa and Spike.
Imo, we NEED to make our opinions heard on the behaviors we saw on TUF, not only as a message to the UFC, but just as a society. Now I’m not saying this is the end of the world or anything, but what we deem as acceptable behavior could surely be a little better.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“I think there is a difference in bashing the UFC and calling out the production of TUF by Zuffa and Spike.”
You’d think people would grasp this, but apparently that’s really difficult.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 4, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The production of TUF by Zuffa and Spike has been one of the biggest contributors to the success of MMA
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and oooo you got me. technically Zuffa runs TUF and not the UFC even though its the same company.
by EazyEismydad on Dec 4, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man nobody is trying to get you.
I hate when people bash Dana/Zuffa/UFC for things like fighter pay, business tactics, etc…
No doubt that TUF has elevated mma, popularity wise.
But in NO way does that justify throwing punches, throwing glasses, pissing in food, jerking off in food, etc….
Of course things like this will happen in situations like TUF. However, that doesn’t mean it should be shown, or at least not dealt with by sending someone like Junie home. The precedent was already established on TUF, that if you break the rules, you go home. Dana absolutely should have dismissed him the very first time he broke the rules.
Now the precedent has been set that the rules don’t mean much, so what will we see next?
And yes, i consider the production of a reality TV show to be completely different than the operations of the actual UFC, even though they are all under the same umbrella.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So is your stance that the UFC...
can not be criticized no matter what they do because they have done so much for the sport?
I love the UFC…I really do. When I first started writing for this site people spewed a lot of hate at me for being too forgiving toward the UFC.
But when a company does as much to become the face of a sport it becomes MORE necessary to look at them with a critical eye. They built the sport to the point where it is now…so they are more than capable of destroying it the same way. Not to say that this situation will destroy it. But the idea that somehow we should not look at the UFC objectively but rather deify them is absurd.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to go
Junie need’s to go simply because he gives fuel to the critics of mma. The UFC is trying to get into NY and actions like this being seen and allowed on national T.V. are just going to harden critics stance against MMA even more. He is the exact image that in the past Dana was trying to prove that mma fighters arent. To someone who doesn’t know mma and is seeing it for the first time, Junie gives the perception that fighters are just crazy brawlers.
The thing that is really scary about Junie is what he is capable of in the real world. If he acts like this on the show, god only knows what he does in everyday life. His temper added to his ability to fight could result in someone who bumps into him on accident in a bar for instance being beaten severly. All I can say is this guy needs some mental help, rather than being paraded around on T.V. so people can get a kick out of his actions.
by attgnp on Dec 4, 2008 11:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Can someone please (because I dont know how)
Make a gif. of Frank Mir dissing the crap outta Junie and leaving his ass alone in the room after the fight? Pure WINNN on Mirs part!
I can hear the Halo 3 announcer now “BETRAYAL!!!” lol!
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 4, 2008 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IMO
I remember on season 5 when he(Dana) went on a rather calm tirade, telling the contestants that they were feeding into the "stereotype" that he has busted his ass over the years from which he has tried to distance the organization and ultimately the sport.
Saying that in regards to the Noah and Marlon Sims backyard brawl. Well Junie fits the sterotype and should have been sent packing and since he made the main card and i dont wanna promote he cause he is an asshole im gonna watch the finale but make sure to turn the channel during the junie fight which i think everyone should do. Then after the ratings are released i dont think we would see another junie fight for a while.
by jks9202 on Dec 4, 2008 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
But then we would miss
him getting his head kicked in…
And thats no fun for anyone! ;)
I doubt we see him again if he loses anyway.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 4, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I read through all this and I see a lot of people who are just starting to realize that they aren’t the target audience for TUF. This is a show for the drunken frat guy demographic, they know they have the hardcore fan’s attention they don’t have to cater to us with the show. All of the controversy raises the ratings and builds a fan base for these guys and lets be realistic every tv show’s main purpose is to get ratings and sell commercial time.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
great observation.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 4, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your right and it probably does its job. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
Its just a pity they can’t educate those people and further their understanding of the sport beyond KOs and the sloppy brawls they crave when they have their attention. Maybe try and impart some understanding of the importance of technique and the nuance of ground fighting, that is if they can find time in between showing shots of people eating semen filled sushi or fruit covered in piss.
by nidge on Dec 4, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and that’s PRECISELY why the show is so regrettable. You’re making our point for us. The point is that to GROW the sport into a NEW demographic, this show won’t help.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 4, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one in any other demographic is watching this show, and if they are they are most likely just watching the last twenty minutes for the fights. It’s not that TUF needs to go (although it is on it’s last legs) it is that the UFC needs a new plan to try and tap those other demographics. It’s not like TUF is making the people who don’t like MMA hate it more, they probably don’t even know TUF exist and have no clue what happens on the show anyway. Of course the whole SpikeTV demographic is the TUF demographic, TUF is the perfect lead in show for “Manswers” (and yes we should all be rolling our eyes at that).
Inside the UFC lasted all of 13 episodes before it was gone, TUF has lasted 100+ episodes and will probably last a couple more seasons. It would be great if the UFC could tap a new demographic but that doesn’t mean that they can just abandon the demographic that is actually watching their product now.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but it’s thinking like this that is going to put an unnecessary ceiling on the growth of the sport. Moreover, everyone acts like behavior like this is necessary to generate ratings. Either it’s Masterpeice Theatre or fighters have to eat jizz. It’s a false dichotomy and not worth paying attention to.
by Luke Thomas on Dec 4, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Season 1 remains the proof...
it drew ratings and while yes…there was some low-brow stuff (spritzing) and Leben blowing up and whatnot…it didn’t involve jizz eating. There was a story there in the fighters and the training that was told…you understood Leben as being a kid who had issues but was talented. Junie on the other hand…not so much. All you know is that he is mentally unstable but not in a way that allows the viewer to feel compassionate towards him.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Season 1 was pretty darn bad and every season has built on that because that was the formula that is selling, the show was built on young people trapped in a house drinking and acting horrible to each other and then fighting it out in a cage. Once you get on that train it’s hard to keep it from going on down that track. The gross out stuff in the current season was horrendous but then I gave up on the “human drama” portion of the show by the third season. I like mma for the mma fights not the wanna be Jackass antics of young fighters, but then I understand that I’m not the target audience for that anyway.
As far as compassion for Chris Leben goes, no not really, I had more compassion for Forrest unfortunate haircut than I did for Leben from that show. Junie was absolutely horrible but he was also the standout star of the show and pretty much singlehandedly saved the ratings. Hell Junie has people stopping him for his autograph in Vegas, as much as anyone with a brain hates that it’s the brainless masses that are paying MMA’s bills.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I don’t think it is necessary and I darn sure don’t want to see that kind of crap but I don’t think it puts any kind of ceiling on the growth of the sport either. The people who don’t like MMA don’t like it because of the sport not because of a reality show they don’t even know exist and the potential future fans outside of this specific demographic probably aren’t watching SpikeTV to start with anyway.
You know if they want to they can have Masterpiece MMA theater and TUF at the same time aimed at different demographics if they want it’s just that no one will ever tune into SpikeTV looking for Masterpiece theater.
by who me on Dec 4, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, thank you
you’ve got this topic nailed. I could give a rip about how these guys act. When I was in college I lived in a fraternity for 5 years. I saw the same stuff on a daily basis. Who cares. If you’re a fan you watch the fights and this season has had a few treats, and Nover looks like the real deal.
Has anyone considered the difference between Junie and the other guys who’ve been kicked off the show for this kind of behavior? I think Dana got it right on this one. Junie wanted to go home because he was affraid of losing on national TV. He was trying to sabatoge himself. The others were just drunk and stupid. Dana didn’t give Junie the easy way out, he made him face his fear. In the end Junie looked like a total snatch because he quite in the cage. Now, he’ll have to face this reality. Nobody on earth respects him. So, he can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
by Jo-Jo on Dec 4, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“terroristic threatening”
haha Yeah I definitely heard him state his political demands before he threw that glass.
fail.
by DirtyML on Dec 4, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A guy I knew got brought up on charges that involved the word terrorist for yelling at some kids while holding a hammer (he was on a construction site).
by Richard Wade on Dec 4, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't be a jerk...
Dr. Mayeda is a smart man who came here to share well educated opinions. He is a published author who has very solid thoughts on the sport.
Oh…and terroristic threatening is the verbal threatening of another person or the threatening of that person while wielding a weapon.
So I guess we can redirect the fail your way…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 4, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terroristic-threat/
…It may mean an offense against property or involving danger to another person that may include but is not limited to recklessly endangering another person, harassment, stalking, ethnic intimidation, and criminal mischief.
by mythbuster on Dec 4, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good call. TUF was a good vehicle to get MMA to where it is now, but perhaps it’s day as being a tool has come to an end. It’s a double sided sword, in that it was essential in getting UFC to the success it is today, but it also holds the sport up when it focuses on the testosterone filled rating antics that seem to be the choix de jour this season. I started boycotting this season back after the first couple of episodes.
by Dooda on Dec 4, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
what happened to discipline of martial art?
Is it me got this martial art thing wrong?
i thought learning martial art is to learn discipline, honor, respect, control, strong, value…etc.
Not bragging with mouth, complaining, or use petty excuse (Frank Mir) to validate himself, or being cocky, or acting like a thug…
Very hard to find a good sportsmen ship in MMA fighter in these days.
Everybody wants to be an actor / fighter…I guess :(
TYM
by TYM on Dec 5, 2008 1:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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