If the UFC Wants MMA Recognized as a Sport, "The Ultimate Fighter" Must Change Its Production Strategies

by dmayeda on Dec 22, 2008 7:49 PM EST Comment 133 comments

Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas.

For those who have not read Danny Acosta’s well researched article on The Ultimate Fighter (TUF), or Cannon Jacques’ follow-up commentary, I highly recommend both. At the heart of Acosta’s thesis lies the question, “Since ‘The Ultimate Fighter’ has entrenched itself as an institution, producers must decide what course it takes. Is it a factory for future champions like (Forrest) Griffin, or is it a haven for the kind of drunken, juvenile behavior (Junie) Browning exhibited?” As TUF’s ongoing trajectory illustrates, TUF producers appear to be searching for the latter.

Much has been written about the availability of alcohol on the show and its contributions to excessively immature behavior. As early as TUF’s first installment, we saw alcohol intensify conflicts between Chris Leben and Josh Koscheck & Bobby Southworth. In additional TUF 1 episodes, other participants were shown getting sloppy drunk and engaging in expectable behaviors. Since the TUF 1 experiment, alcohol’s availability has never appeared to diminish, suggesting that athletic development is not one of TUF’s primary objectives.

An institution trying to prove itself as a legitimate sport and deserving of mainstream sporting status would not normally market itself as one that facilitates its athletes in getting drunk, often times dangerously drunk. Not only is TUF a platform for the UFC used to hype future fight cards, but the UFC also heralds TUF as a building block for its athletic pool. True, other professional sports leagues have problems with athletes and alcohol consumption (among other things), but we do not see other accepted professional sports in our society assisting so overtly in athletes' alcohol consumption over healthy lifestyles.

If in fact the UFC wants MMA to be accepted as sport, it would push its future athletes to behave in ways that build athleticism and create an environment conducive to athletic excellence. Instead, the UFC and TUF producers appear to view juvenile behavior, dangerous behavior, and that behavior’s attendant ratings as paramount over the portrayal of MMA as a legitimate sport.

Furthermore, while alcohol’s accessibility is a central and severe problem with TUF, an attendant problem is the way conflict is formally structured into the reality show. Here I am not necessarily referring to the use of two opposing teams whose individual members compete from episode to episode. Those familiar with MMA training know that reliance on supportive teammates is crucial for serious mixed martial artists. Rather, I am referring to the way rivalries are constructed into seasons and the lack of mentorship/guidelines coaches could provide regarding appropriate behavior for an aspiring professional athlete.

Of the eight seasons aired to date, five have had coaches who were slated to subsequently fight each other. Not surprisingly in some of these seasons, the coaches were bitter rivals (Shamrock-Ortiz; Hughes-Serra; Penn-Pulver), and their coaching animosity was vividly evident in multiple episodes. In fact, the coaching conflicts appear to be a bigger focus of the TUF shows than coaches’ guidance in or out of sport. Moreover, with the exception of TUF 4 (The Comeback), a majority of the contestants are not mature men. They are young men, many of whom clearly need guidance beyond simply learning MMA fighting techniques. In turn, viewers witness the ramifications – a hodgepodge of degenerate actions that resemble anything but sport.

Despite TUF’s controversy being hashed out repeatedly over the blogosphere, one cannot help but wonder what lies ahead. In addition to a poor precedent being set with Junie Browning’s behaviors rewarded, Season 9 will have the winner of Dan Henderson versus Rich Franklin coach a U.S. team against Michael Bisping’s team of fighters from the United Kingdom. Thus, on top of having coaches on board who will fight each other (albeit who hold no known animosity), the opposing teams will represent different countries, thereby constructing a nationally-based rivalry. Clearly, Spike TV’s TUF producers are looking for ways to embed more conflict into the series, which compound with alcohol’s accessibility can only result in MMA being depicted at best as a fringe sport with marginal legitimacy. What alcohol laden conflictual arrangement will they think of next?

In the end, the UFC’s trademark outreach tool may entice certain viewers and build the organization’s popularity among a tremendously narrow demographic. However, TUF’s production strategies are more regressive than progressive when it comes to mainstreaming MMA, legitimizing MMA’s sporting status, and capturing a broader fan base that could help the sport thrive during these ominous economic times.

David Mayeda, PhD, is lead author of Fighting for Acceptance: Mixed Martial Artists and Violence in American Society

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Rec'd

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

On rivalries

Not sure if I completely agree with the good doctor on the rivalries aspect, though I am happy he brought it up and hope it will be part of this discussion.

Dr. Mayeda seems to be expressing reservations that the rivalries built into the show—most often coach vs. coach—send the wrong message and promote the view that MMA is not a sport but rather a glorified bar fight.

But rivalries are as much a part of pro MMA as training (it is often the central question expressed by fighter interviews and in promotions of "the brawl to settle it all)) and I don’t see that changing, nor do I want it to.

For that matter, it’s not unique to MMA and exists across many sports (as an Eagles fan, I must confess that I have at times cheered when Cowboys were laying injured on the field, though I’m not proud of it).

At a certain point, conflict is the sell, and we have to acknowledge that punching people in the face isn’t polite. While I didn’t like a lot of the frat antics on the show this season, I think rivalries are a fundamental part of sport and one of the reasons rooting as a fan is so fun.

I mean, let’s be honest: Rampage vs. Axe Murderer. We all want to see this, and it’s not because of the technical jiu-jitsu we expect to see.

I agree totally on the alcohol in the house though.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually agree w/you on this – rivalries aren’t necessarily bad in and of themselves. I can’t see Franklin or Hendo getting into a serious spat with Bisping (or anyone else). But I see the TUF producers incessantly trying to set up conflict in new ways, that they know induced with alcohol will lead to problems. Imagine the antics we’re gonna see between the American and British teams if things aren’t changed.

by dmayeda on Dec 22, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Antics

I also hope that they don’t play too heavily on nationalism on the US vs. British season, in the same way that I was disappointed that Koschek was suddenly hailed as a hero when fighting a Japanese opponent in front of the armed services. But it’s understandable and not unique to MMA—just look at the Olympics.

The coaches—Ken Shamrock excepted—seem to be mature enough to handle the rivalry embedded in the show’s premise. I think the bigger problem is the role alcohol plays in turning minor disagreements into violent feuds and the fact that fighters like Junie are rewarded for their bad behavior.

Can you imagine the NFL greenlighting a program where participants would be given alcohol, forced to live together and get on each others nerves, then given the green light to act out their grievances by drilling each other on the field?

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately, I think that’s exactly what the producers hope will happen – The US vs. British theme will be the centerpiece of the season. Then they’ll “solve” their conflicts during drunken arguments and subsequent UFC fights.

by dmayeda on Dec 22, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TUF =/= MMA

Drama sells fights. If they can’t get, they manufacture drama. As for rivalries, it’s one of the cornerstones of sports since the beginning of time. BJ Penn VS GSP is a rivalry. Wanderlei and Rampage hate each other. These are stories that sell fights. People don’t just want to watch a fight of two random guys fight each other. They want a back story to go with it. I have no problem with this British VS US slant because it adds extra elements to a somewhat stale TUF. You have to spice things up before everything gets too familiar.

The thing is, TUF is not MMA. MMA is the sport, UFC is the organization that promotes the sport, and TUF is the TV show that introduces MMA to the public., That’s all it is. As a TV show, it needs ratings to survive. The analogy to this is music, the music industry, and American Idol as the TV show. I don’t see people dismissing American Idol as doing damage to the rest of the music world with its promotion of William Hung. Some of the winners do a great service to the talent search and many of them are truly talented. But to get there, AI has to shift through a lot of crap that makes one cringe. TUF is no difference.

by cyph on Dec 22, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs

Rec’d. Agree.

by dropkick101 on Dec 22, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I second this.

by subo on Dec 22, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Make that a 3rd...

I think there are better usages of PhD’s.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck That

I’m happy that scholars are interested in the sport of MMA. Hell, I’m happy that anybody is interested, because it increases the chances that the sport I love will continue to grow, but it’s especially great to have thoughtful people around to talk shit with on this website. This has been the most interesting thread in weeks, comment-wise.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How much did this guy pay you?

The thread about the troops and the rest of the USA apparently being racist because they cheered for Koscheck instead of Yoshida was insulting….

This one is just ridiculous…. TUF is a reality show…. its entertainment and the UFC is in the entertainment business. These men and women are great athletes, they put everything in this sport and since it isn’t scripted outcomes… this sport is legitimate. Fuck ESPN, they couldn’t show UFC fights even if they wanted to. They don’t show other MMA orgs because the example set by ProElite pretty much soured the market looking to televise MMA. This guy can dress up his threads with big words and “profound” thoughts all he wants, put that expensive college education to work… good for him and his hard work but the posting of David Mayeda is a PhD blah blah is completely not needed and seems to me is only there to show off.

He wants to post his opinions like everyone else… right on…. this is Ameica after all, but all men are created equal.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This comment is really out of line. Consider this a formal warning.

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Warning taken...

Not sure what is out of line, but I’ll stop posting.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His education is irrelevant to the fact that he likes to come here and discuss things with the rest of us.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a really petty and mean spirited jab at someone just trying to share his thoughts. You’re welcome to post and you’re welcome to disagree. I didn’t agree with Dr. Mayeda’s post on Koscheck – Yoshida. But taking a shot at his academic credentials when he’s been nothing but nice is not cool. Post away just be cool.

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I understand what you are saying...

Yes, I disagree with what he is saying.

I do formerly apologize for taking jabs at his “credentials”. He is using his right to post his views and his opinions just like the rest of us. I respect the fact that he puts his thoughts into a forum like this.

My issue is this, if he is just posting like the rest of us and his education is “irrelevant” like ‘who me’ posted above…why does “David Mayeda, PhD, is lead author of Fighting for Acceptance: Mixed Martial Artists and Violence in American Society”… have to be posted at the bottom of all his articles?

Seems to me that his credentials are being posted to justify his opinions and that his education is trying to be made relevant. It seems like bragging to me, that is my only point.

If he wrote a book, great. It honestly sounds like a very interesting topic and I would read it if I ever came across it, but write up an article telling us about the content of the book and say where we could find it…. and leave it at that. There is no need, in my opinion, to post it at the bottom of every article.

Luke, we all know your role with this site but I don’t see you throwing that up in our face w/ everything you post.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 7:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Posters who are editors or contributors from other sites normally tag their post with signatures and links. I’m not sure why you think him putting a link to his book is any different?

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've moved on..

I see the logic to Mr. Mayeda’s articles so this conversation can end now. I don’t read the credentials of posters, I only read what they have to say. If this gentleman is an editor of another site, than it is a site that I’m not familiar with.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if he’s got another site or not I was pointing out that other people link to their stuff too and that’s not a problem.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Front page stuff as always. Great stuff Doc.

by Zack Gobie on Dec 22, 2008 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ratings

I would really like to see all the ratings of each episode and season compared. I think that would really shed some light on popularity and show if there is any correlation between rivalries bad behaviour and ratings. I dont know if anything like that is out there, or on another website, but I just think that it would be pretty interesting Bloody Elbow.

Plus it would give evidence on whether a change in format is needed and show if the ratings support the notion of people being put off by the current display.

Just an idea.

by iamtheoriginalchris on Dec 23, 2008 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The ratings are regularly reported by different sites (as are the ratings trends). It would be interesting to see all that information compiled but that would be time consuming to put together.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, this article is a miss. It’s all hot air. Its an important question to examine, but I think it is getting carried away.

by szucconi on Dec 22, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

by Michaelthebox on Dec 22, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No question, the topic is old, but the problem isn’t going away. It’s getting progressively worse.

by dmayeda on Dec 22, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think his issue is with the topic, its with your analysis of it, which is way over the top. Really, having such an inflammatory headline is uncalled for; TUF isn’t going to have a ton of impact, long-run, over the perception of MMA as a sport.

by Michaelthebox on Dec 22, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In regards to the title, I would like to know what “recognized as a sport” entails.

What does the world look like when MMA is recognized as a sport, a legitimate sport?

What is the number of gyms that need to be opened? What do the PPV buys have to be? Do headliners just have make a few more million? Are you just looking for regulation in 50 states? Is that it? Do you need more billboards? Are you just waiting for ESPN to have more coverage? Are you looking for everyone to like violence? What do the ratings have to be for a countdown show so that MMA is a sport? What is this recognition, and why are you assuming MMA must have that recognition?

Are things going so poorly in this un-sport state?

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

MMA will be "recognized as a sport" when ...

It is legal in every state (like football, basketball, and hockey).

It is covered on ESPN and sports pages as much as they cover boxing.

Those are the two qualifications I would say must be met before MMA is fully recognized as a sport by mainstream America.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s it?

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let’s substitute those qualifications into the title and see how they sound:

If the UFC wants MMA legal in every state, “The Ultimate Fighter” must change its production strategies.

If the UFC wants coverage on ESPN and sports pages, “The Ultimate Fighter” must change its production strategies.

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree with that statement

In the same way that in order to get where we are now, they had to outlaw the most brutish aspects, and stop selling the “No RULES!” aspect of it. The Fertitas and Dana White made a very smart decision to pursue legitimacy by getting sanctioned, and it has worked marvels. Now there is a next step, and the two part test above is as good a barometer as any. Not saying TUF is the whole part of even the lion’s share of the battle, but it is a high profile piece when it comes to mainstream America, so one wonders if Payton Manning would be such a star if he was shown eating semen and urine during his rookie season.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What is the amount of semen that has to be consumed on a reality show before the sport is outlawed?

Would there have been more coverage on ESPN for UFC 91 if this season of TUF was uneventful?

I need to see the impact of TUF shown to me. Saying that it hurts ‘legitimacy’ is diffuse and irrelevant.

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree..

Its a show…. not a UFC event

The Finale is a UFC event.

MMA Live on ESPN.com proves there is legitimacy already set… as soon as they can find a way to put it on regular TV, it will happen. ESPN covers all the weigh ins and the sports scroller always has the results posted. HDnet shows non stop MMA pretty much from all over the world. CBS had MMA until the Shaw’s business plan blew up in their face. MMA gets coverage and it is a legitimate sport.

If it wasn’t, none of us would post on here.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn’t that sound a little hyper-sensationalized, especially when no mutual relation is given in the article between TUF and any of the things necessary to be considered ‘legitimate’?

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, it is sensationized

and it has obviously done a good job of getting people’s attention, which was likely the author’s intent. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an important underlying question to consider, which is why I think it’s drawing so many comments.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup, that's it.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Michaelthebox is correct. The UFC is in bed with the company that signs off on the production of Manswers. Its a compramise between ratings/attention grabbing and MMA. It just not that bad. These are imature young men being exploited for ratings. They aren’t repping the sport well, but its like any other sport has goons. In some cases its good. Junie loses and Mir treats him like a bitch. It’s locker room juctice. I had a very similar situation wrestling in high school where some real quality guys quit the team and half way through the season they wanted back on the team. The coach didn’t want to look ballless and he wanted them back on the team because they were good so he put it to a team vote. Needless to say, even the people who didn’t want the guys back give in to the team. It really could be much much worse. But mostly I have a problem with harping on this issue and trying to get blood from a stone. If it was going to have an impact then this season would have and I have heard little about it, so you are over blowing the impact issue.

I am not sure if you saw the coverage UFC 91 got, but that was a huge step. 92 is a huge card and will be a good test for repeat coverage. The problem is, as with boxing, you have to make huge fights to make ESPN coverage.

Sorry that was all over the place, but I am trying to work and respond.

by szucconi on Dec 22, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Best line of the debate ...

The UFC is in bed with the company that signs off on the production of Manswers.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

imo, a simple summary of the problem with TUF is this:

These guys know that the most outlandish behavior is rewarded with more tv time, more recognition (either positive or negative) amongst fans and more fights in the UFC. I would say it is as important and perhaps more important, to be a “character” than to be the champ. I’m not saying this is right, just that it is what it is. Now, the side effect is, starting with Leben, the pressure has been on to be “that season’s Leben” or worse. in other words, each year, someone will try to up the ante on bad behavior.

On a side note, shouldn’t the title be “if the UFC wants ultimate fighting recognized as a sport”, lol!!

Nice work as always.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 22, 2008 5:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

I love reading a thousand articles like this at the end of every TUF season. Maybe this time Zuffa will listen!

by George Lucas on Dec 22, 2008 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sammy Morgan...

…once famously said (and was admonished for saying) “Now I’m an Ultimate Fighter!” after losing his first bout on the television program. He wasn’t. And he isn’t.

I’m personally of the opinion that these guys can’t be held to the same standard as the men that are under contract with Zuffa, representing the sport and product in all that they say and do. Most of the men (boys?) on these programs are not UFC fighters. They want to be UFC fighters. I don’t consider that a representation of the sport or the league. The NFL has camp bodies. I don’t care to read in the paper how a camp body got a DWI or punched someone at a local bar. He gets cut before the preseason starts. He doesn’t get to play ball with everyone else. Tough luck…

The only way some people are going to get what they want out of The Ultimate Fighter would be in its desolution. I don’t want that, because I enjoy the program. I enjoy watching the fighters and their fights, but I also enjoy learning more about the athletes that I may follow for years to come.

by Blackout612 on Dec 22, 2008 7:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i believe that was danny abaddi. :)

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good call

I remember that he had something in common with me, so I wrongly figured it was the Minnesotan and not the middle eastern guy. Haha..

by Blackout612 on Dec 22, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lol. simple mistake. sammy morgan has actually been able to have a decent career from being a former ’tuf fighter", even though he loses quite regularly. thats another thing about tuf. the exposure from just being on that show can sometimes be priceless.

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dear David Mayeda

Take a company worth a few million and turn it into a billion then write such a post.

by banter on Dec 22, 2008 7:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

and before I get jumped on this…I have seen this exact same type of post on forums and blogs dozens of times and the UFC keep growing so why stop? Nobody knows when it will take a step back so spare me any predictions.

by banter on Dec 22, 2008 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s not really an argument.

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Dec 22, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the scoop

by banter on Dec 22, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mayeda’s a fuckin doctor. He can post whatever he likes.

by subo on Dec 22, 2008 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Banter – by your logic, none of us are allowed to have an opinion. Including you.

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

then we need to delete the entire site…dammit….I always miss the details…

by banter on Dec 22, 2008 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll repeat this like I did above...

There are better usages of PhD’s

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ratings

it’s all about the ratings. 1rst the ufc would have to convince SPIKE TV that the show could still draw respectable ratings without all the “real world” antics. a tough task indeed. spike has and will continue to pay the ufc ALOT of money for the rights to air their programs as long as the ratings are good. that’s the caveat, can tuf take away the alcohol and all the hijinks and still draw in the casual viewer? if not than this is all a moot point.

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

TUF was floping this season until Junie’s antics ramped things up. The show has run it’s course for drawing new viewers to the sport(does anyone think that TUF’s shrinking numbers every season point to new viewers?) and is now just a way to hype young guys with a existing fan base.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WHO ME.

then what are your solutions? a new show. what would it be about. i think people need to come up with some ideas on how to improve the show, or ones to create a new one, instead of just constantly pointing out all the faults with the curent format.

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m a OSH engineer not a media market planner coming up with new TV shows isn’t my job. As a entertainment consumer I am legitimately in my right to whine, complain and bitch about things I watch on TV. You can go back and look at the numbers for this season and correlate bad behaviour with good ratings but that is completly different from designing a completly new show (or even a new direction for a old show) and have it mean anything.

Personally I’d like to see a 30 minute show on a specific up and coming fighter every week because I find it interesting to learn more about the guys “Beyond the Cage” (see how I snuck that in there) :D

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t know there was a beyond the cage website, a prime example of why I don’t work in TV.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s a positive idea. thats a start at least.

by bdw on Dec 23, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It won’t change anything, of course neither will the complaining. SpikeTV will only change things if the ratings start slipping and that will be to go with what will keep the ratings up(which has been shown to be the “Jackass” elements of the show). As far as new shows, It thought the new deal with Spike had an agreement for a new show to replace TUF in the future (I could be wrong about that, it’s been a year since they signed their new tv deal).

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep I am wrong, it’s not a replacement it’s just a new tv show from the UFC. TUF is picked up for another 2 years(if they keep doing two seasons a year like they have been doing).

The main components of the deal are:
    — Seasons 9 through 12 of the highly successful reality series, "The Ultimate Fighter®." The first five seasons of "The Ultimate Fighter" on Spike TV were seen by 93 million viewers. *
    — 12 live fight cards, "UFC® Fight Nights™," hosted by Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg. Spike TV will telecast four per year.
    — Two seasons of a new, weekly live fight series (details to be announced at a later date).
    — 39 one-hour episodes of "UFC® Unleashed™," hosted by Mike Goldberg, featuring the greatest fights in the history of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, many of them never seen before on basic cable. Spike TV will run 13 per year in ‘09, ‘10, and ‘11.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TUF is a reality show that features mixed martial artists. It is both a reality show and a mixed martial arts show. The UFC would not be as big as it is today without the nonsense drama that makes TUF popular among casual viewers. There is an argument that the body fluids took it too far for some people, but as a whole the formula works and will continue to work. I see no merit in the argument of this article.

by dropkick101 on Dec 22, 2008 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

it is starting to feel like beating a dead horse. there is such a thing as dvr and or a remote control. a person can ff through the bad parts, or just turn the channel. if i had a dollar for every time i ve heard a fan say “this is the last season i will ever watch” and then see them blogging about the show the following season………

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly, Spike TV’s TUF producers are looking for ways to embed more conflict into the series…

So what?

Clearly, Spike TV’s TUF producers are looking for ways to embed more conflict into the series, which compound with alcohol’s accessibility can only result in MMA being depicted at best as a fringe sport with marginal legitimacy.

Conflict + alcohol = fringe sport?

Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?

by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 22, 2008 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i dont like all the antics and have been tired of them for a while now, just like most other “hardcore fans”. the question is, can the show survive without them? do we want no tuf at all if it isn’t up to our standards. i would miss the show to be quite honest. it’s been a great showcase for the coaches and alot of the fighters.

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The show has run it’s course, changing it to make it more palitable to “hardcore fans” would kill it’s ratings with it’s target audience. What the UFC needs is a completly new show and to just let TUF fade away. It’s served it’s purpose.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TUF is the minor leagues

UFC needs to keep finding the next wave of fighters to throw into the Anderson Silva wood chipper.

No, just kidding.

Forrest vs. Rashad. Wouldn’t happen without TUF. It’s an important breeding ground for the next generation of fighters and a chance to measure them before they’re under contract or on a nationwide PPV.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ShowXC was a minor league show, TUF is a reality game show. Forrest vs Rashad would of happened without TUF if both guys are the real deal. TUF didn’t make them top level Mixed Martial Artist it just made them reality show famous.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Without TUF, they might not be making a living off fighting right now.

by Richard Wade on Dec 22, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

forrest has aid that he would probably not even be a fighter if not for the show. he would still be a cop in georgia

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Forrest had been fighting for almost 4 years and had 11 fights(including wins of Chael Sonnen and Jeff Monson) at a time when the sport was very much underground before TUF. Every season you get a diminishing return on talent and more and more ringers in there for promotional purposes too. I’m not trying to say that TUF was bad I am just saying that as a tv show it has run it’s course, 8 seasons is a lot of seasons to last for any tv show.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And ...

It also got them access to trainers, got them enough of a spotlight to practice the sport as a full-time profession, and made enough people interested in their fight that it’s part of the biggest card of the year.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It did the same for Junie Browning too.

What the show did for guys from the first season when the whole sport was completly underground isn’t neccessarily the same thing as what it is doing for a sport at the level MMA is at now.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's Not That Big A Deal.

Brock Lesnar alone is ten times the market force changer (I know it ain’t official but it sounds right) than ANY negative effect brought on by TUF. I cannot imagine a scenario in which more than a couple of thousand PPV buys are at risk by the behavior of unestablished fighters on a cable show.

Those will be by parents who ban their children from seeing such barbarity – thus creating lifelong, hardcore fans in the process. It works for the UFC, even in the worst case, to have more eyes on TUF. The boxing fans that are starting to filter in are doing so out of disgust (see Holyfield-Valuev), and most other fans get into it because they have a friend to walk them through the ‘boring’ ground wars and self-promoting shitheads. IT WILL ALL BE OK.

by subo on Dec 22, 2008 8:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

but he's a fuckin doctor!!!

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 22, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TUF is outlandish and frat party disgusting but then that is what gets ratings. If they changed the show to a serious show about training without guys stuck in a house with no contact and free alcohol then the show wouldn’t make it through a single season. The sad fact is that we aren’t the target audience for TUF the drunken frat boys that these guys act like are. Everyone likes to complain about Junie Browning (with good reason) but when he was up to his antics the ratings went up and now he can’t walk around Vegas without getting mugged by fans. TV is entertainment (including professional sports) and for some reason people find the antics on TUF entertaining.

As much as I think TUF is done and they need to come up with something else I also don’t think it is doing any damage at all to the sport. because the people who complain about MMA don’t have a clue about TUF to start with. Their arguement isn’t that MMA fighters are childish drunken frat thugs it’s that MMA is a horribly violent sport not fit for public viewing. The NFL odesn’t have to do a show like this, they have college football making young stars for them but that still doesn’t stop guys like Pacman Jones from getting drafted and his antics drug across every major sports news outlet over and over again.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The question is: Where is the line

I don’t agree with every aspect of Dr. Mayeda’s post, as I’ve made clear above. But I think he raises a legitimate point about where the line is drawn. Yes, drama sells fights—but would we encourage a “African American” vs. “Caucasion” season of the show? USA Vs. Brittain is just one step away from USA vs. Brazil which is one step away from white guys vs. black guys.

TUF has a legitimate responsibility to the sport, as a gateway for most new fans into it (and lord knows the Ferititas have spent millions upon millions legitimizing it, so this is as much a question of whether they are doing harm to their investment). I think a lot of us felt this year’s season went over the line with the urine and the semen stuff. Personally, I think alcohol could be removed from the show and there would be no detriment. In fact, I think it’d be more interesting, if only because so much of the drunken misbehavior has become a cliche.

What complicates TUF is that, unlike The Real World, where you get kicked off for hitting somebody, on this show, if you play your cards right, you get to be locked in a cage with that person, where you are actually encouraged to brutalize them. This is quite a different thing than the standard “hyping up” of a fight. This is, in fact, coming very close to orchestrating an assault. And greasing the wheels with alcohol makes it even more morally questionable.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You probably draw the line at 'white guys vs. black guys'

I’d say the line is riiiight around there.

USA vs. Brazil would be one of the most epic PPVs ever if they set it up right.

by subo on Dec 22, 2008 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i would think so too, but i once asked a brazilian blogger about how well the ufc would do if they went back and held a show in brazil and his response surprised me. he said that mma is not that big a deal in brazil like it is here in the states. soccer is still the biggest sport and mma, surprisingly, is just a small sport in that country and is not widely recognized.

by bdw on Dec 22, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think a huge USA v Brazil card would help immensely.

by subo on Dec 22, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hasn’t USA vs Brazil been done by other organizations?

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HAHA. Nice.

Agreed.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoops. That reply was to subo.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 22, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

USA Vs. Brittain is just one step away from USA vs. Brazil which is one step away from white guys vs. black guys.

I don’t see how you can jump to that conclusion.

by cyph on Dec 22, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is no way you can jump to that conclusion. Having one countries atheletes compete against another is in no way like white vs. black. By even making that comparison, you are essentially saying olympic atheletes competing is one step from black vs. white which is not the case. It’s just a competition that will generate a lot of excitement among fans from both countries and allows fans to rally behind their country men much like somebody rallying behind their football team.

by attgnp on Dec 22, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's creating a false separation

I understand that I exaggerated for effect and I’m sure no one would ever greenlight a racist season of TUF, I just wonder about the business strategy. They did it with USA vs. Canada and Dana said he didn’t particularly like it.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Dec 23, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha…which is one step away from global genocide!!!

by NextAndersonSilva on Dec 22, 2008 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Might as well give the keys to the cockroaches and get busy digging out own graves. Zuffa singlehandedly destroyed the world with one of its marketing schemes. Nice goin’ there, smarts.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Dec 22, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To say that TUF can only be successful in its current form is a flimsy argument at best. While I realize that cheaply made reality shows are popular now, there are more thoughtful programs out there that attract viewers. I would be willing to guess that these programs attract more affluent viewers, on the whole, than something akin to The Real World. Most people that have paid any attention at all realize that TUF has served a vital purpose to the UFC and all of MMA. I would contend that the show has gone downhill since participants have become more apt to game the show. They’re acting ridiculously to capture the bulk of attention.

One thing that never changes in the realm of business is that companies have to continually evolve to maintain growth. What was good for the UFC when it was close to extinction isn’t necessarily good for it today as a billion dollar concern. If you believe your product could be diminished, the time to do something about it is now, not after it has suffered a significant hit. I’m not saying that TUF could take down the UFC. I don’t believe that, but what I do believe is that it could inhibit the promotion’s growth in its current form.

Obviously, people are going to disagree with me, and are free to attack my arguments. I don’t always agree with Luke or Brent or mythbuster or Dr. Mayeda and so on. That’s the great thing about this site. We can disagree in a civil manner. We need to refrain from personal attacks. It’s a low level way to bolster an argument, and it won’t end well. I’m not trying to be preachy, but it’s important that we maintain a high level of debate here. It’s what separates us from all the over savages on the internet.

by Cannon Jacques on Dec 22, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

TUF might be a victim of it’s location too. You can imagine that it would be a very different show aiming at a very different target audience on ESPN as compared to SpikeTV. TUF is in it’s current form because the guys paying the bills for it want it to be that way, it is as much (if not more) a SpikeTV reality show as it is a UFC contest show.

The fact that guys have figured out that it is more important to make a big splash on the show than to actually win the contract really doesn’t help, lets face it more than half the guys on the show are going to get a UFC contract out of it but it’s guys that make a name who are going to be able to sell tickets off being on TUF. Some guys draw attention from personality and some draw it from being drunken assholes but it is the name recognition is the real prize on TUF not the contract that is a bit better than what the losers on the show get.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s just not that big a deal to me. In your worst nightmare, how many PPV buys could TUF possibly lose for Zuffa?

by subo on Dec 23, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s really not the issue. I doubt that TUF is hurting the UFC in a meaningful way at the current time, but I believe it can if the content continues to degrade and the UFC becomes even more mainstream. More critics will likely emerge. I wouldn’t classify something as a resounding success if it doesn’t lose PPV buys. That’s a little backwards.

by Cannon Jacques on Dec 23, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lets not act like the show was ever upstanding in any way, the first season was built on Leben, Southworth and Koscheck acting horrendously unacceptable and has pretty much stayed the course from there, it hasn’t really degraded it has always revolved around this kind of crap. There is a good chance the UFC wouldn’t exist now if it wasn’t for what those guys acting like frat house assholes did to get attention from the start, the show has run it’s course in the last 8 seasons but lets not act like it was ever anything different.

Honestly I don’t worry too much about the future because I don’t see the show lasting much longer just based on the ratings degradation every season. Spike has picked it up for 4 more seasons, I can’t see much life for the show beyond that, heck it wouldn’t surprise me if it got cancelled before it finished it’s contract.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m certainly not trying to say that TUF was ever some kind of masterpiece. It’s a reality show. Period. Most of them are less than thought provoking. However, I stand by my assertion that the show continues to push the envelope further in regard to decency, especially this season. My main point is that, if the UFC wants to be mentioned in the same breath as the other top sports organizations in the U.S., they might not want to put their name on a reality show that doesn’t portray mixed martial artists in a very positive light. I know these guys aren’t in the UFC yet, but try explaining that to someone watching the sport for the first time.

As far as the UFC not existing without the antics displayed on TUF, that may be true. I really don’t know. I would agree that the UFC wouldn’t exist in its current, powerful form if not for TUF. It may not exist at all, but I can’t say without a doubt that the UFC wouldn’t have been successful if the show had been structured in a different way. That’s simply not knowable.

by Cannon Jacques on Dec 23, 2008 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I don’t know if it would of been succesful if presented in a different way but the idea that the show has ever been anything different than guys locked in a house drinking and acting badly just isn’t the case. Yea the current cast did some gross stuff and yea Junie was a real ass but they didn’t even tear the bannister off the stairs or do a hundred thousand dollars worth of property damage to the house this season(destruction of property had become one of the show’s calling cards).

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They were told this season, any damage to the house would come out of their pockets.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 23, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is definitely an improvement over past seasons. Heck I felt that the season after season of out of control wanton destruction of private property was a much worse issue than the episode with the piss fruit. Being gross is a lot better of an image than being a house destroying hoodlum or a drunk who pisses himself and harasses women at a casino bar.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know, it is all pretty bad stuff, imo. However, you make a good point. I remember the first time I talked to Eliot after he came back from taping and I specifically asked him about trashing of the house and that is when he told me they were warned about it and required to pay for the damage. I guess it did leave a lasting impression from past seasons.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 24, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WAMMA's Fault!

Inside sources tell me Micheal Lynch sends the TUF house letters attached to bottles of alcohol.

by bignerd on Dec 23, 2008 1:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Those sound like my sources that told me Michael Lynch is a crossdresser. Same people?

by subo on Dec 23, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you talk to the same people on this board as I do

by bignerd on Dec 23, 2008 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WAMMA is probably busy trying to sanction the Bob Sapp vs Kinniku Mantaro fight for their Super-Heavyweight Belt.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 3:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

I will never tire of shitting on WAMMA.

by subo on Dec 23, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I smell a satire coming on

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let’s play ‘what if’ for a moment…

Assuming NFL (or NBA or MLB or NHL…) created a reality show like TUF… would they sit on the sidelines while the contestants acted like a bunch of drunk frat boys? Don’t think so. They wouldn’t want such behavior associated with their product.

The question is: who would it help UFC to have this kind of behavior associated with them? Like it or not, TUF will be viewed as a part of UFC. How could it not be? Dana White is involved on every season, the team coaches are UFC fighters… There is no way one can avoid having TUF viewed as a part of UFC.

I think season 8 was a clear sign – TUF has run its course. UFC needs to either rework the show from the ground up or let it fade away. Having national rivalries on the show is a) a cheap way to get conflicts and b) potential trouble writ large. We will see fights, for-real fights in the house.

by lhasafi on Dec 23, 2008 5:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

None of those sports would have a show like this, but then none of them ever needed to, they get their up and coming stars from college and amateur leagues. Of course all those sports are full of guys who act like that and it does a lot more PR damage that that is reported in the news that these guys are like that in public than if it had been on a staged reality show where they are obviously pushing guys to act badly. Michael Vick has done more damage to the NFL than 100 drunken frat boy reality shows could ever do; for MMA Rampage Jackson did more damage than anything that has ever happened on TUF. Just because the major sports don’t do reality shows like that doesn’t mean that they are above antics or free and clear of bad behaviour associations.

As far as rivalries go pro sports are built on bitter rivalries.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Vick hasn’t done much damage to the NFL at all. The NFL isn’t going to put their stamp of approval on any athlete that does something that could affect the league negatively. I really don’t think that anything Rampage did, as terrible as it was, affected the UFC to a significant degree. There’s a difference in individuals acting badly and league/promotion sponsored buffoonery. Certainly, I didn’t see anything done on TUF 8 that was equivalent to the actions of Vick or Rampage, but the portrayal of the guys on TUF doesn’t really put them forth as serious athletes.

by Cannon Jacques on Dec 23, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All these things do damage, TUF’s damage is limited by the fact that comparably no one watches the show. The only people who pay attention to TUF are people who are already positive on MMA but the Rampage incident got picked up by mainstream media.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The author is right!

As usual so many folks here just don’t get it. Arguing that TUF is ‘not an MMA event’ has to be one of the most brain dead assertions I’ve ever heard. Like the hundreds of bloggers who are little more than UFC corporate meat puppets, they justify every asinine thing Dana White does.
There are very solid reasons why American MMA ’fan’s are considered the world over to be the most ignorant, ill informed, boorish mixed martial arts fans on the planet. And a major contributor to that fact is TUF.
We all know that a fighter has a much better chance of getting free top shelf booze in the house than healthy food. Do you really think drunken idiots pissing all over themselves, each other and in their food is the image of an MMA fighter American needs to see? Do you?
TUF appeals to the brain dead mouth breathing mall rats without a clue who tune in to see the latest moronic behavior from the drunks. White doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the sport or else he wouldn’t be dragging it through the mud like he does.
Contrast TUF to Tapout’s practice of demonstrating the hard work, dedication and sacrifices their fighters make and have fun doing it at the same time without alcohol or urine getting involved.
TUF needs to grow up. And so do many of its fans.

by SnowCrash7 on Dec 23, 2008 8:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

TUF is not that big a deal and

You’re wrong. I’ll leave it at that for the sake of brevity.

by subo on Dec 23, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Way to drag up the old “I hate Dana White” soap box, extra points for bashing American fans with a silly generalization and painting everyone who doesn’t agree with your personal opinion as UFC puppets, that says a lot about you.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Last I heard..

Tapout is bankrolled by Zuffa..

by Johann on Dec 24, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Simple solution to this "issue"

You don’t like the show, don’t watch it.

I don’t watch the UFC because of The Ultimate Fighter reality show. I watch the sport of MMA and the UFC just happens to be one of the better organizations out there.

Dana White runs a business…. not the entire sport. He is in the business of making money and attracting people to watch this program. These “Jackass” brand shenanigans has sold in the past. The “American Idol” dynamic of making it a competition has clearly sold in this country.

The Ultimate Fighter is a television show, it just happens to be a television show where athletes compete for a spot to fight in the UFC. TUF is not an MMA event, what these guys do in that house doesn’t affect how I will watch MMA and I know I’m not the only one that feels that way.

At this point, The Ultimate Fighter’s influence on MMA is being blown way out of proportion…. what happens on that show doesn’t dictate what will happen with the sport of Mixed Martial Arts.

I agree that TapOut is a much better show and I enjoy seeing the TapOut crew using their resources and influences to help this unknown fighters rise out of obscurity so to speak. Case and point is Donald Cerrone.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I actually applaud Mr. Mayeda now....

Your PhD must be in sociology. I’m finding that your articles are a lot like this past season of TUF.

All the disgusting and immature behavior was shown to draw people in to “see what they’d do next”.

Your theories and opinions seem to raise an uproar each time, dividing people up and getting them to state their case passionately (and in some cases rude and immaturely, which I know I’m guilty of). You’re drawing people in to see what crazy thing you’ll say next.

Not sure if that is the mission of your articles and this is all an “experiment” you’re conducting…. but I applaud you now sir… well played.

I’m not calling you Dr. though… lol

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 10:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Eventually, I suspect most readers will come to a similar conclusion and let the future cries of “wolf!” die before reaching their proverbial ears.

"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard

by Brett Jones on Dec 23, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My understanding now...

of why he puts the PhD stuff at the bottom of all his articles. It all makes sense. I will know better from here on out and not fall into the “WTF” frame of mind whenever I read his articles.

Putting that extensive and expensive education to work, at least he’s making good on his work instead of doing nothing w/ the college degrees he has received like a lot of other people I know.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure how trolling (a term Dr. Mayeda feigns unfamiliarity with) a blog is putting to work a PhD. However, he has written a book, which is more than I can say for myself.

Not that the writing of a book necessarily gives intellectual superiority over anyone else, but it does imply a certain level of understanding of the subject matter. So while I am inclined to disregard Dr. Mayeda future posts based on his previous posts (this one included), I am willing to accept that he is not a mere fool.

I would appreciate it if Dr. Mayeda could comment on MMA in a positive regard for once, though for that I’ll not hold my breath.

"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard

by Brett Jones on Dec 23, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I agree w/ you

The world is full of enough negativity. From what I can gather, watching or participating in MMA has a positive effect on most people here.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

The UFC likely doesn’t give a shit, to put it bluntly. If we put a bunch of MMA fights on TV and pushed quality fights and a vast quantity of them, the show would fail because the drama of the house is exactly what drives many casual fans to the show. The drama adds to the fuel of the fights, and so on.

And I’m not sure I understand the dilemna that’s being brought about because Season 1 was so successful in producing champions while the last season probably isn’t. It’s a very simple answer.

Season 1 was stacked with MMA’s more elite fighters from the get go. I think there was less “finding personalities” and more “who’s the better fighters” on that season. It produced greatness.

The subsequent seasons turned into test beds for ratings. Added some quality fighters, but the personalities were likely seen as the gold in the show. Now, we see a bunch of personalities mixed in with some decent fighters. Drama and personalities are pushed rather than quality.

Plain and simple, why are people still pushing a point that we have no control over? The UFC will likely continue fueling the show with drama and personalities and having these guys undergo a psychological breakdown on national television to produce ratings. All the ranting and raving about how the show should change is falling on deaf ears. The UFC doesn’t care, and most casual fans still watch the show.

Gunslinger has a point. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it. I watch the show because I cover MMA, that’s it. I’m not a fan of the show, and I believe in best vs. best matchups, but this sport doesn’t work that way. The best I can hope for is that the UFC somehow finds a way to pit the best vs. best in a way that helps them. That way, they get what they want, and I get what I want.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Dec 23, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The UFC will likely continue fueling the show with drama and personalities and having these guys undergo a psychological breakdown on national television to produce ratings.

In other words, look for more drunk antics, frat house behavior, bodily fluids, pranks and fights inside the house. Ratings will rise – and good luck trying to get MMA sanctioned in all 50 states.

by lhasafi on Dec 23, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What guys do on TUF has absolutely nothing to do with MMA sanctioning. They aren’t fighting sanctioning in New York because the guys on TUF act like the guys on Jackass they are fighting it because it is a bloody violent sport that they don’t agree with. People were fighting to keep this sport from growing long before TUF was even an idea in someones head and those people would still be fighting to keep the sport down if TUF resembled Masterpiece Theater.

I think it should also be pointed out that the ratings aren’t rising for TUF they are slowly falling, the drunken antics get enough attention to keep them on the air but the ratings haven’t been anything special for quite a while. The show is on it’s last legs and critics of the sport definitely aren’t watching it, they hate the sport because of what happens inside the cage not outside of it.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

Well said.

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 1:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

In response to who me's post..

by Gunslinger20 on Dec 23, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did Junie smarten up after the show? Did he quit drinking? Did Leben quit drinking? I don’t like the drunkin’ antic’s they show for ratings either, but it seems to me that at least a couple’a these guys have seriously turned their life around. They were able to do it because of the support of the trainers and fighters around them. If the show was no more than a bunch of thugs, Junie would’ve been knocked out a bunch of times. But these guys are their for more than just fighting. The ones who aim to make this a legitimate sport are the examples that the rest seem to follow more and more. I know this, because their is no way Junie Browning could’ve convinced the guys at extreme Couture without walking the walk. Junie’s got some talent, but Shawn Tompkins wouldn’t waste his time if he hadn’t smartened up.

by bubbafat on Dec 23, 2008 2:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Statistics please...

In many of the threads about TUF, I have repeatedly seen people claiming Junie and his antics “saved” TUF or greatly increased the ratings. Unfortunately, nobody has provided any ratings statistics to back this up.

imo, showing conclusively that these antics improve ratings, would render much of this argument moot. In other words we still may not care fopr the antics, but we would understand why they are a necessary evil.

I saw a comparison once on another site, but can’t find it now. The ratings were basically the same with and without the over the top behavior. I have tried to fin the ratings and will continue to do so, but in the mean time, if anyone has them, please post them.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 23, 2008 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Episode 3 did a 0.8 (the lowest rating ever for the show). Episode 4 did a 1.42 rating (Episode 4 was Junie’s first big breakdown). Episode 5 did a 1.1, Episode 6 did a 1.29 (Junie’s first fight), they stayed pretty constant just above a 1.2 after that. The two highest rated episodes of the season both revolved around Junie and that 1.42 rating was huge for the show.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

edit: it wasn’t his first fight it was his second, I forgot about the fight to get on the show.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for posting this info.

My translation is, while there were highs and lows, there was not a consistent improvement above the ratings that the show has consistently had in the past. I don’t think we will ever know if the antics are the driving force, because I don’t think we will ever see a TUF without them, lol.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 23, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TUF has never been without antics but what SpikeTV will see is that Junie’s huge breakdown got the best ratings the show has got in several seasons. For some reason that dirtbag really resonated with fans of the show(which should tell us a lot about who is actually watching). Lord I hope Spike doesn’t do something really stupid like giving Junie his own show.

I agree that on average the ratings weren’t anything to get excited over, they consistantly lose a bit of the audience every year. Still going from a all time low to a season high from one episode to the next says a lot about what people are tuning in to see(Junie getting drunk and freaking out was heavily advertised).

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I was looking for numbers for last season and it looks like season 8 might of actually went up in ratings from season 7, a bad sign for people complaining about Junie and season 8 antics.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know, for some reason, the food stuff bothered me the most on season 8. You expect drama with a bunch of testosterone filled fighters in a house. The thing that pissed me off about junie, was they gave him so many chances.

I think even if TUF has hit its ceiling, it is still amongst Spikes highest rated programs, thus the likelihood of continuing.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 23, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest I try and only watch the fights anymore, I lost interest in the actual show years ago. Heck I get more enjoyment out of the internet discussions of the shows than I ever did actually watching it.

by who me on Dec 23, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs