CSAC Continues Absurd Vice Cop Marijuana Prosection

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 12:12 PM EST in News Comment 16 comments

This time an amateur was bitten by the completely unjustifiable law, but the matter still stands:

Danny Davis, who last competed for Espinoza Kickboxing on December 13, 2008 in South San Francisco, has tested positive for Marijuana. His suspension period runs from the conclusion of the bout on December 13, 2008 through March 13, 2009. He has been fined $500.

For those new to the issue, the gist is this:

1. The CSAC and NSAC use urine tests to determine whether someone's metabolite levels determine impairment. The problem? There is no dose correlation between metabolite levels and impairment that can reasonably be established with urine tests. Were the commissions willing to use blood tests, the results would be more believable, but in this case we have a farrago of phony tests proving nothing except that the CSAC if perfectly willing to squander tax payer money on wild goose chases.

2. The reason metabolite levels determining impairment are important is because the commissions (more so the NSAC) want you to beleive marijuana is not performance enhancing, but could have a "positive impact". So, the commissions want to establish that a fighter was impaired at some point during the fight in order to prove the fighter benefited from the alleged "positive impact" of marijuana.

There is obviously more to the story and I want to be clear that I am not suggesting it's acceptable for a fighter to use marijuana such that they are intoxicated during a fight. There are serious problems with allowing such anarchy. My point is that however well intentioned the CSAC may be, the urine tests used to establish a threshold for impairment prove nothing and are a complete waste of time and resources. Given how negatively a drug suspension can impact a fighter's career and finances, the CSAC and NSAC have a responsibility to appropriately test for marijuana presence if they are to enforce laws against such use. Period.

Oh yeah, and if we're concerned with fighters' health even about drugs that are legal but aren't allowed to be used in certain circumstances (like aspirin before a fight), there's a decent list here maybe the CSAC should take a look at.

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Not to mention that urine tests only prove that the person has ingested marijuana some time within the previous 30 days (give or take). The argument that the fighter is inebriated at the time of the fight is a weak one at best. After Nick Diaz’s weed suspension happened, I had an argument with someone who said that the positive impact could have to do with the mental side of fighting or as a pain reliever. I called bullshit on that; fighters who smoke weed do it for the same reason I do (to get high) and their intent is not to gain any sort of advantage. The reality is that the net effect would probably be negative, as smoking anything is not great for your cardio. There is no reason for an athletic commission to test for marijuana.

by Drewplata on Dec 22, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Right and it gets more complicated than this. Not only does it make the time period of marijuana ingestion unclear, the same metabolite level can affect people differently. In short, there are a range of tolerances, so the CSAC’s and NSAC’s threshold is nothing but arbitary (again, this doesn’t apply to blood tests).

As for pain relief, marijuana does relieve some of the discomfort that comes with chronic injuries or soreness and even naseau, but the notion that it makes one impervious to pain is nothing more than fantasy.

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MMMM… but what a great fantasy to have…. “SuperStoner coming into the Octagon, taking huge shots! What a chin! What’s that? A burrito in the front row? He’s left the cage to steal some cheesy goodness!” Come to think of it, I’m feeling a little nauseous right now…

by Drewplata on Dec 22, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So, is this guy going to take bong hits between rounds instead of sips of water?

I feel like that should have been a scene in Bloodsport.

by Brett Jones on Dec 22, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone who has smoked marijuana knows that the last thing you want to be doing while you your high is getting into a fight. As far as I’m concerned, if Nick Diaz could gogo Gomi while he was blazed, should he really be punished for that? I know this is a layman’s way of looking at things, but is there any good reason why marijuana should be a banned substance? If fighters can get drunk off their ass and smoke a shit load of Hookah on TUF, why should marijuana lead to all these fines and suspensions?

by Zack Gobie on Dec 22, 2008 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

a) Anybody without the good sense to come into a fight straight probably has some underlying emotional problem or something that they’re self-medicating with pot.

b) Nobody who comes in stoned is going to be fighting at their full potential and could get seriously injured. Not cool.

c) Even if somebody CAN fight stoned, almost nobody should, and we have to punish everyone equally.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Dec 23, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh, it’s illegal right now and known to be banned. The guy should be suspended an addition 3 months for being stupid enough to use it or be around it close to fight time.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 22, 2008 4:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Yep. It has been argued for years and will be argued for years more about the dangers of pot but that isn’t really the question here. If you make your living as a fighter and you know for a fact that if they catch you with it in your system you will be fined and suspended then why in the hell would you smoke it? It’s not like they are surprising guys with this, everyone knows they are looking and that you will get suspended, if you do it anyway then it’s 100% your fault. It’s not because it’s marijuana it’s about taking any substance that is known to be on the banned list, if CSAC bans taco salad and you go and eat a taco salad before a fight then you are just begging for a suspension.

That said yes there are a lot of issues with drug testing practices in MMA and CSAC leads the way in controversy.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve heard a judge in court (Maryland Circuit Court) actually say, “And another $X for being stupid enough to….” So that’s totally fair in my book

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Dec 23, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The CSAC's main purpose is about generating revenue

How much money did the CSAC generate for the state of California this year? Something in the neighborhood of 2 million and they did it coming under budget as well. It’s about the bottom line to those in charge and as long as these government agencies make a profit I seriously doubt anything is going to change.

Taking into account the economy and how the budget shortage is effecting state funded agencies in California, a commission that’s making money isn’t going to get a reduction in funds. If anything they’re going to get more money. And of course with an increase of funds, you’re going to need to justify it. Meaning you need something that looks legitimate to spend it on.

So by creating this environment where more and more fighters need to take tests, promoters have to pay for licensing and different fees, the CSAC not only creates additional work on their end but it also legitimizes the them because now they’ve gone from a sanctioning body to some sort pseudo-law enforcement agency.

I hate bears

by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Dec 22, 2008 4:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt CSAC makes much money off suspending guys for a year and CSAC actually spend more of their budget on drug testing than any other state athletic commission in the US, if it was about cutting budget expenses they wouldn’t test every fighter on the card and just test randomly like other commissions do. CSAC makes the money it does due to the huge number of events that happen in California not because of drug testing policy.

As for sanctioning body to pseudo-law enforcement, well the athletic commissions are rule making and enforcing government agencies. They were created to enforce state athletic regulations from the very start, that is what they do.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right, and they don’t do it fairly or well at taxpayer expense on the issue of marijuana. No one is arguing it shouldn’t be tested for. What we are saying is that if you’re going to test for it, get a test that’s fair to the laws and fighters.

by Luke Thomas on Dec 22, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well a lot of people do say it shouldn’t be tested for but I completly agree with your premise that if you are going to do it you should do it the right way, especially when a person’s livelihood is on the line.

by who me on Dec 22, 2008 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs