How much does Chuck Liddell really have left?
It's a question that has been asked time and time again ever since Rashad Evans left the Iceman motionless in a heap of wreckage in the middle of the Philips Arena (Atlanta, GA). To this date, no definitive answer has been given. We've all been left here, twiddling our thumbs, wondering what was to be next for the future UFC Hall of Famer. And we all were left wondering how much he truly had left in his tank. Was this just a bump in the road? Or was this something more? Well, it's time to examine this and see if we can find out what the true answer really is.
On December 30th of 2006, Chuck Liddell defended his UFC Light Heavyweight championship by knocking out the Huntington Beach Bad Boy, Tito Ortiz. He was riding high. Living the life of a rock star. Partying all day, partying all night, training hard but not hard enough. He was caught up in the mystique that being one of the premier UFC icons brought him. Liddell forgot what got him to the top. Hunger. He had lost that hunger. The events that followed have shaped his life as we know it.
A mere five months later, Liddell was lying flat on his back, a common theme that will keep resurfacing, after being knocked out by Quinton "Rampage" Jackson early in their second fight.
It was sort of an anti-climactic end to the reign of Chuck Liddell. A reign that had lasted two years. A reign that featured four knockouts. And it was a win streak that (in total) started back at UFC 47: It's On! against Tito Ortiz. He was the winner of seven straight fights, all by knockout. And then came along Rampage. The one man he always had troubled with. Going back to their fight in PRIDE, Rampage showed the model on how to beat Liddell. You wait him out and spring a trap for him. And it happened in their second fight. Liddell fell prey to the "waiting game" and he paid for it. With his belt. A payment he thought he would never have to endure.
Following that loss to Jackson, Liddell looked to rebound against a man who was also looking to come back from a vicious knockout. Ironically, both occurred on the same night. Both at UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson in Las Vegas (NV). Keith Jardine walked into his bout against Chuck Liddell as a heavy underdog. No one believed that Jardine could actually defeat the Iceman. Everyone except for Jardine himself and everyone in his camp. Beat Liddell is exactly what Jardine did. For the final two rounds of that fight, Jardine brutalized Chuck with kick after kick to the midsection. And even dropping him once in the second round. Chuck appeared to have lost it but regained his composure to stand right back up and continue the fight. However, it was apparent that Liddell was not all there. His eyes had a look in them that signaled defeat. A fighter at the end of his ropes. Almost like the same look that De La Hoya had in his eyes against Pacquiao earlier this month. A fighter who realized that the younger guys had finally caught up to the old man's game. Liddell left UFC 76: Knockout without a victory, losing by Split Decision to Jardine. And with Wanderlei Silva in attendance, it left us wondering if that fight would ever take place. Well, we didn't have to wait long.
At UFC 79: Nemesis, we got to finally see the fight that we had always wanted to see. Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva against Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell. And it was a fight that did not disappoint.
But even in a fight that Liddell seemingly controlled with his sizable reach advantage and strategic takedowns, he still found himself in a spot he didn't want to be: on the canvas, looking up at Wanderlei after a good shot. Liddell sprung back up but had a different look in his eyes this time. A look of redemption. A look of how much he wanted to win this fight because of the long road it took to get here. And on this night, he strategically and smartly picked his way to a victory against his nemesis. But even in a fight that Liddell won, it did not seem that the fans were at all rooting for him. So even after Mike Goldberg shouted "Liddell is BACK!", the fans were left there in amazement of a great fight rather than wondering if Liddell truly was indeed back to his old form. He had hit Wanderlei with some huge shots, much like he had hit Jardine with, but Wanderlei, like Jardine, did not wilt nor go down. They both stood tall and banged with Liddell. Wanderlei wasn't as lucky in the decision aspect of things as Jardine was, but he stood toe-to-toe with Liddell and gave as good as he got. The fans even seemed to respond better to Wanderlei after the fight than they did for Chuck. It was almost as if the fans had lost a little bit of love for Liddell that night. Not because he won or because who he beat, but because they didn't see what they seemingly paid for. A signature Liddell win that was capped by a vicious knockout. Perhaps his next fight would deliver on that for the fans. Perhaps.
After a rumored (and scheduled) bout against Mauricio "Shogun" Rua was put on the back-burner, Liddell accepted a fight against "Sugar" Rashad Evans at UFC 88: Breakthrough. And breakthrough is exactly what Evans did, right through Liddell's jaw. Literally. In a fight where many people wondered exactly what would Evans' strategy be, he surprised the world and did what no one thought he could do. He stood with Liddell. And at the end of the night, he was the only one of the two actually left standing. The first round was a back-and-forth affair that Liddell seemed to control, for the most part. The second round started with much of the same but then the unthinkable happened. One of Liddell's patent looping punches was dunked under and countered with the most vicious right hand this side of the Mississippi. Evans brought a fist straight out of the Stone Age and put it right to Chuck's jaw, sending him crashing to the cage floor without an ounce of consciousness inside of him. Even the look on Evans said it all. He stood there, somewhat worried and somewhat shocked. But somewhat in awe of what had just happened. The seemingly impossible to slay Chuck Liddell was not just defeated, but knocked into a state of emergency. And with that, Evans earned his title shot against champion Forrest Griffin. But it was with that right hand from hell that led to the main question. How much does Chuck Liddell really have left?
I think it's safe to say that no one truly knows. No one but Chuck himself. He recently stated that he wants to fight Keith Jardine in March at UFC 96, saying "We have Jardine listed. We want him in March." And the truth is, does Liddell really want that fight? He might say that he does, but does he really? Sure, he can avenge a loss. It's something he seems to do quite well, outside of his second run-in with Rampage. But is it really needed? Should Liddell lose for the fourth time in five fights, where would that leave him? He would be left with the mid-level guys at 205. He'd have ducked the likes of Lyoto Machida as well as never fought a guy like Mauricio Rua, Forrest Griffin, and others.
For his sake, and I say this because I want to see a man know when to call it quits, I hope he is finally done. It's not to say that Liddell does not have anything left in the tank. I'm sure he does. And I'm sure he knows that he does. But enough is enough. In the past four fights, Liddell has tasted canvas and three times it has led to a defeat. Twice by way of knockout. One by a knockout that could actually end a man's career. And it should. It really should. Liddell is an icon for MMA. The guy that every man can relate to, somewhat. And the guy that every man can relate to needs to know when to call it quits. You don't want to be like Riddick Bowe out there, looking to fight for the last few scraps of money you can get your paws onto. If sports teach us anything, it teaches us to accept our failures, as well as our successes, with quiet dignity and grace. That line is from the great Gene Wilder.
So, Chuck, know when to hang them up. I think now is a great time. Don't be like Mark Coleman. Don't come back when you have no purpose to. And do not think that you are Randy Couture because your body is not one that can handle itself the way that Randy's can. Be Chuck Liddell. I know that you do not want the (MMA) world to remember the last time you walked out of the cage as the time you were carried out of it. But think of how much worse it could get for you. You have a whole life ahead of you. I know you have money saved. And I know you live a good life. So do the smart thing, retire while you can and while you think you have a chance to live to the best of your abilities. You might go through the "What If?" syndrome, but it's just that. Going through that syndrome after a few more knockouts is not worth it. Your life is what is important. So go live it.
Those who know me best know that I've never, once, cheered for Liddell. I've always despised what he stood for. However, in this day in age, I think he needs to think about himself more than about the fans. He needs to be selfish. And walk away with his head held high. A victory over Jardine in a rematch might do that for him, but a loss would go a long way to destroying the career he helped create. That aura of invincibility will be long gone and all that will be left is a pot-bellied 40-year old man with nothing left but his memories of a time long ago. And none of us, mostly him, want to see that happen.
So how much does Liddell really have left? Like I said, I'm sure he has a lot left. But for his sake, I hope not. No one wants to go through this anymore.
Chuck, thanks for everything. Just hang them up. Please.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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As did I. However, that still doesn’t diminish what Liddell has done for the sport.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Oh I agree.
He’s not just some UFC poster-boy. He fought back in the bare-knuckle Vale Tudo days. His takedown defense inspired a whole generation of strikers. And even with his minor set-backs (prior to his recent losses) it’s not like he has been utterly embarassed or clowned in his fights. A lot of people forget he put up a pretty good fight against Rampage the first time he fought. He also crushed the much more athletic and technical striker in Overeem – a really good fight as well.
by KneeToTheFace on Dec 21, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'd Love to see that fight again
I just don’t see any way Chuck beats Overeem at this point. The first match was in Chuck’s Prime and when Alistair was just a 24 year old kid.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I think we’ll be having these discussions about Randy this time next year too :(
Although there is something to be said about the ‘old guard’ staying around as long as they are still hungry. It’s a balancing act for sure.
Ken Shamrock still fights because he’s hungry…for food, that is, not for glory…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 21, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Good article, FlyByKnight.
I don’t want to see Chuck hang his gloves up just yet, but on the other hand I don’t want to see him (or Couture), taking up a slot in a fight that deserves someone on their way up, rather than someone collecting a paycheck and biding their time.
Mostly I agree with you on this one, myth. I’m not so sure about the idea that Chuck is blocking worthy fighters out of the title picture, though. I mean realistically, there are three or four guys definitively above him on the LHW pecking order, as in well outside his reach at this point. So as a second-tier guy who has a legit shot to re-work himself, and also serve as something of a gatekeeper to the highest echelon of the UFC LHW division, I think he fills a much-needed role.
It’s great that the majority of fights in the UFC are between rising stars. I mean, this really is the case. Maybe stars is the wrong term. But the vast majority of the fights we see on the main cards are between fighters who have at least roughly similar profiles, from the experience and accomplishment standpoints. Having a handful of fan favorites, who are still legit fighters, manning the walls to the title picture for a year or two is perfectly acceptable, to me. Just make sure it’s the exception, rather than the rule.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 21, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that Lidell wants to fight Jardine and not Anderson Silva is a pretty good indication that he doesn’t think he has much left either. The Liddell of old would have begged Dana for a fight against Anderson Silva.
Good point
I think for him, now, it’s more about his legacy and avenging some losses than worrying about the title (tho if Rashad wins, then he can claim to avenge the loss and get a title shot together).
I rec but I disagree
The fact that a guy is no longer in title contention doesn’t automatically have to mean the end of his career. I’d still put Chuck as a solid top 5 LHW if he can avenge the Jardine loss, and then who knows?
Even if the guy never challenges for the belt again, he can serve as a great test for up-and-comers and serve up another classic with Wandy. I’m going to remember his dominance no matter how long he decides to stick around, and I think he’s got some great fights left in him, whether or not they’re against the very best.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 21, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions
Great article, but I think that the only thing holding back Chuck right now is Chuck. He still has all the tools to be a champ, he just lacks that motivation and fire to be the best, the same way that Matt Hughes does. If Chuck wants his belt back, he needs to put in more hours in the gym than he ever has before. And not just the kind of hours he did as the champ. He needs to evolve his game and adapt to the 205 landscape he is in. In this day in age of MMA, not taking a step forward in your fight strategy is essentially taking two steps backwards.
imo, not much left for Chuck. Of course he can stay around, be a draw and make some money, but he isn’t going to be much more than a gatekeeper. Is that really what one of the all-time greats wants? if so, then more power to him.
A lot of people see what Randy has done, and think that is what many of the great aging fighters can do. I say what Randy has done is more unique and rare. Much of Randy’s game is close in fighting, clinching, wrestling and dirty boxing. Imo, this lends itself to somebody who may have lost some speed, but can make up for it in game planning and style. Chuck is an outside fighter, a counter striker. Much of his game is reaction and hand speed, which does not lend itself to being effective as he gets older and slower.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
To add to the Couture observations -
I’d also point out that Randy’s game is basically all about applied leverage, both generated and negated. He uses clinchwork and cagework, utilizing both GR wrestling and dirty boxing to maximum effect, to essentially control every fight he’s in. It doesn’t always work perfectly, but he is always the one directing the action. To me, this is huge in MMA, and I wish people were as keen to pick up on this simple concept as they were to follow Liddell’s sprawl-’n-brawl style.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 21, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Go down gambling....
I said it the morning after Evans KHTFO. Liddell was given a gift being KO’d so brutally. The gift of an honorable end to a great career. What better way for an MMA legend to finish a career of KO’ing others than to be KO’d himself. Chuck has an opportunity to exit the ring with honor but it looks like he wants go down gambling. If Chuck wants to gamble with his legacy by fighting a few more fights he has definitely earned the right to do so.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
This strikes me as short sighted. While everyone online thought Liddell was done after Jardine, he beat Wanderlei up badly 3 months later. The same guy that may win the title next year if he beats Rampage in a week.
The bottom line is that Liddell has some bad tendencies that he is paying for lately, but he could easily come out next time reinvigorated and give just about anyone a hell of a fight. The problem is really the American mentality of claiming a fighter is done after losses. We saw Rampage put his career back together after two horrible losses, guys can lose to other tough fighters and then rebound.
Imagine they make Chuck-Shogun next assuming Shogun murders Coleman. Unfortunately, one of those legends then has to lose, and if they lose by KO, it will be followed by a massive wave of people saying the loser is washed up/no good/done for. Realistically, it’s just two great guys and one could go down. Unless we want to start seeing things like Liddell facing 9 scrubs in a row before another run at the top, it’s time to stop this silly notion of claiming guys are done as soon as they lose.
Agreed – let the corpse get cold, for Christ’s sake.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 21, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Also, the finish at UFC 88 was a lot like what happened in Werdum/Dos Santos but in reverse. In this case you had an overhand right and uppercut thrown at the same time, but the uppercut hit the shoulder and Rashad’s hit straight on. Claiming Liddell is done based on what happened there is too shallow.
With 4 ounce gloves, these kinds of things are going to happen a lot more than they did in boxing. The fight was hardly DLH/Pacquaio where one guy just got the shit beaten out of him for 20 minutes and was utterly outclassed. When that happens, then it’s time for Chuck to hang it up. For now, he is living the life he wants to live and he can be competitive with anyone if he fights the way he did against Silva. There is no reason at all to retire.
Also, the finish at UFC 88 was a lot like what happened in Werdum/Dos Santos but in reverse. In this case you had an overhand right and uppercut thrown at the same time, but the uppercut hit the shoulder and Rashad’s hit straight on. Claiming Liddell is done based on what happened there is too shallow.
I haven’t watched the fight in a while so I could be wrong, but the way I remember it was that Rashad beat Chuck convincingly. The KO punch may have been a “lucky punch” (tho I don’t think so, I think he knew exactly what to throw, and when), but in every aspect of the fight Rashad was a step quicker, better, stronger, than Chuck.
IIRC, every judge scored round 1 for Liddell.
by Michael Rome on Dec 21, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly
As I said, I haven’t watched it in a while, and I don’t know how the judges scored it. I checked this site to see, and here’s what Kid Nate said about it:
Round 1. Rashad is looking a little spastic here. He’s giving up a lot of reach to Liddell. They’re feeling each other out, Rashad is reluctant to engage. Liddell is hunting Evans, circling. Rashad lands a right hook. Liddel with a right that scores. Rashad with a body kick. Liddell charges, Evans dodges. Evans with a jab. Evans with a leg kick. Evans is taunting Chuck with stance changes. Chuck lands a right and a left off an Evans leg kick. Chuck is cornering Rashad, Evans circles away. Chuck throws a kick as the round ends. Hard to score. I score it 10-10.
Round 2. Liddell is cornering Evans, they’re exchanging. Evans is landing some small shots. Chuck with a right. Liddell with a combo. Evans with a left hook. EVANS KOS LIDDELL WITH A RIGHT HAND. Oh my god. That was a kill shot!!!!!
(no idea why it won’t let me do two paragraphs in one blockquote…)
And while Kid Nate isn’t the final word on scoring, he did get away free in the worst predictions article ;)
On the other hand...
Why do you always have to stop while you`re on top? I would say that stopping while you?re on top is more cause we fans want a mythical monster than out of regard for a fighter legacy. When to stop is up to the athlete. Some may have better lives knowing that they gave absolutely everything they had, some are better off ending with a win. The question is basically what gives you the best peace of mind in the years to come.
Secondly, I`ve never really understood why it should be so hard to motivate yourself just because you`re number one and you`ve won everything there is to win. In that case, should`nt Kobe or Shaq or the Williams sisters or that swimmer-guy stop competing immediately?
That being said, I agree with the author. Hang em up, Chuck.
"They called him the axe-murderer because he was murdering chumps. They should have been calling him the chump-murderer..." Rampage Jackson (commentating on the fighting abilities of Wanderlei "F#ck Chuck" Silva.)
by BlueberryMuffin on Dec 22, 2008 7:09 AM EST reply actions
I think the problem with you analogy is that as a swimmer, tennis player, or basketball player, when you lose, you don’t run the risk of severe long-term debilitating brain injuries.
After witnessing his visibly diminished skills and 2 crushing knockouts, I honestly don’t know what Chuck has left; but as a fighter, do we really need to find out?
by jebushchrist on Dec 22, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions

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