Sean Sherk Thinks Penn Should Relinquish Belt
by Patrick McCauley on Dec 2, 2008 6:23 PM EST
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From a 5 oz of Pain interview (Nov. 25th):
Sam Caplan: So you’re saying that if B.J. wants to go after the welterweight title currently held by Georges St. Pierre that he should have to relinquish the lightweight title?
Sean Sherk: To be honest with you, if you’re going to be gone 13, 14, or 15 months, I think you should relinquish the belt. There’s a lot of guys right now fighting their way to the top and trying to get that belt. A lot of guys want that number one contender spot. Once you get that number one contender spot, then what? The champion is gone. The champion is fighting at 170 so now when you get up to that number one contender spot you can’t even fight for a belt because the champion is not competing in the weight class anymore.
For me, it’s a hard pill to swallow because I want to be the number one contender; I want to fight for the belt. Okay, but where’s the champion? Kenny wants to fight for the belt. Okay, but where’s the champion? We’ve got no champion to fight so basically we just keep fighting for the number one contender spot. The number one contender spot is pretty much the championship belt, I guess.
Sherk certainly has a valid point here. The upper echelon of the lightweight division has been put in limbo leading up to Penn's second fight with GSP. This is unfortunate for the top fighters at 155, particularly Kenny Florian, the current top contender. That being said, I don’t think it makes sense for Penn to vacate the lightweight championship before his welterweight title bout. If Penn loses to GSP after vacating the lightweight belt, then where does he go? I would imagine back down to lightweight, where he should arguably still be champion.
Both Florian and Sherk have expressed interest in a second bout between them to determine the number one contender at 155 during Penn’s hiatus, but this match has little upside for the UFC. If Sherk were victorious, then he’d have to face Penn again and I don’t think there is much interest for that fight. One could argue that Florian and Sherk should meet (again) for a vacant lightweight title, but the problem is the same. If Sherk wins the belt and Penn loses to GSP, Penn would likely move back down to lightweight for another shot at Sherk, a less than interesting prospect. However, if Penn gets past GSP for the welterweight championship, a title bout between Sherk and Florian doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
The bottom line is that the lightweight division will have to wait until Jan. 31st for what’s next. This might be unfortunate for the fighters, but from a fan’s perspective—GSP vs. Penn 2 is well worth it.
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My Mom Thinks I Should Go Back To College
Sherk’s opinion seems roughly as obvious. Self interested bastards.
If BJ can really, truly defend these belts against the #1 contenders at each class, I say more power to him. Same goes for GSP and Anderson Silva.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 2, 2008 6:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We are all self interested, so you have a point there.
Sherk’s comments aren’t without merit in spite of the fact that he is campaigning for himself. If BJ wins and the UFC decides he’s going to stay at WW and defend against Thiago or fight GSP for a third time, he has to vacate the belt. If he decides to keep both belts, his next fight has to be at lightweight if he wants to hold on to the strap, otherwise it needs to be relinquished. While Sherk has only won a single fight since losing to Penn, it was against the highest ranked contender not named Kenny Florian so that has to count for something.
Bottom line: If GSP wins, there is no debate. If Penn wins and defends the LW belt in his next fight, he fights Florian. If he stays at WW, title is relinquished. At that point Florian and Sherk cage fight.
Nice analogy
My Mom Thinks I Should Go Back To College
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
Sherk is not out of line for thinking this way. There is too much talent in each division for BJ to make other 155’s wait up to a year for a shot. If he does beat GSP, I think it’s fair to make him drop the 155 belt. If he loses, he needs to stay at 155 and defend the belt or relinquish it and try again at 170. You can’t have it both ways when you only fight 2 x per year.
ya but
didnt Sherk make everybody wait around for him for a year after his, steroid \ not steroids issue?? pot calling the kettle black
I want to see Florian get a title shot next. It should be his next fight. As long as that title fight comes by June, I don’t see any problem.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want to see Sherk get dismantled by BJ again. At least, not this soon.
Florian has 6 wins in a row (5 finishes) since losing to Sherk in their title match. He’s earned it.
Sherk got pummeled and finished by BJ, and has only 1 win since. (a decision)
Florian’s title shot? YES, PLEASE. Sherk’s title shot? …meh.
Agree 100% Florian deserves his shot
And he beat Sherk, so all is right with the world.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
I'm really excited
To see Florian get his shot. He has been impressive with all of his wins.
AND
It would be real Interesting to see the Florian VS Sherk Rematch to see if Florian can redeem that loss. However, it might be a shame to only let this be a 3 rounder. When BJ loses to Pierre, He should still vacate the Belt!
all you gotta do is...
sounds right
i think fFlorian has taken his game to the next level, i cant really see him beating BJ, but a rematch with Sherk would turn out different than the first time i think…i do think BJ could probably beat most of the other guys in St. Pierre’s division, but he’s going to have his hands full with George
People are too quick to ask BJ to relinquish
He has taken on all comers. He will be taking on Florian. There’s no reason he can’t also fight GSP. I’d love to see somebody in the UFC own two belts like Hendo in Pride.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
There’s no reason he can’t also fight GSP
He’s fighting for the welterweight belt despite being 0-2 at welterweight in the UFC. Thiago Alves, on the other hand…
BJ Penn is 0-2 at WW? Impressive feat considering he beat Hughes in 2004 for the WW championship. I have no clue what weight he fought Serra at, although I assume it was LW as he had his draw with Uno afterwards.
0-2. Yet those fights included a decision that could have gone either way against the current champion GSP and a fight he was winning before breaking a rib against the champion at the time, Matt Hughes. I don’t think anyone is arguing Penn’s credibility.
Plus, a lot of people seem to be crying for Thiago here. Here’s the deal: all Thiago needs to do is wait a few more months to get his massive payday and a title shot. Plus, whoever wins the belt in GSP-Penn II will be an even bigger star then they were before the fight. This means that Alves will be in an even bigger fight come time for his shot and, should he win, it will make it that much better based on the improved credibility and star power of either GSP or Penn.
This is good for the UFC, GSP, Penn, Alves, and the fans. I don’t see any of these arguments against the fight holding any weight.
Incorrect. Alves is put in a really bad spot if BJ wins.
BJ’s next fight after GSP is to defend at LW against Florian. That fight would be May at the earliest. If he’s also the WW champ, that means a fight against Alves would be in October at the earliest. That’s 1 year layoff for Alves, which is ridiculous, if all he has to do is “wait”. You don’t put your #1 contender on the shelf for a year. He needs to fight, to headline UFC PPVs.
If BJ isn’t going to defend at LW if he does win the WW belt, then Sherk is even more correct in his statements, and BJ should vacate the LW belt and weight class altogether.
I see your point but I think the dates your coming up with are a bit stretched. Realistically, if Penn wins and defends against Florian at LW next, you’re right that it will probably be in May, although middle to end of April is conceivable. But October? No reason for that. Most fighter training camps are about 8 weeks, sometimes 10 or 12, but 8 is adequate. If BJ fights Kenny in the beginning of April, even with a few weeks off, there’s no reason he can’t fight Thiago by late July or August at the latest. It’s not ideal by any means, but it’s certainly earlier than October.
With that said, I think he would need to vacate one of the belts or fight Florian and Alves within a two months time span. My comment that people were “crying for Thiago” was directed towards people who are bitching about the booking of the GSP-Penn II fight in the first place, as opposed to an immediate fight of GSP-Thiago.
A loss is a loss. No one is lining up to hand Rampage another shot at Forrest out of the blue, even though a lot of people thought he won that fight. The fact of the matter is that Penn is getting a title shot without having to win any fights in the division. That’s an insanely bad precedent.
Also, you seem to think that Alves will magically get paid more if he waits longer. The longer he waits, the more money he loses, regardless of who holds the title above him. And if the wait is too long, he’ll be forced to risk a non-title bout just for the payday. There is nothing good about this delay for Thiago Alves.
by George Lucas on Dec 5, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Hodl both titles
If BJ wins he should be able to hold both he earned them. But he should then be required to fight at least 3 to 4 times a year and take turns every other fight fighting at the other class. For instance by May he will have to fight Florian then by Sept. fight at WW against Thiago and then by Jan at LW again. If he decides he cant keep it up since he only fights a couple times a year now then he can give one up or if he isn’t fulfilling his part and fighting every 4 months take one from him. . but i dont think anyone at 155 is a real contender for him he is in a league of his own. But dont take something the man has well worked for and earned.
For that to work, Penn would have to fight at least four times a year, with two title defenses at each weight. The chances of that being possible based on potential injuries is slim.
he can have his cake and eat it too. BJ loves cake....
i have no issue w/ him holding both belts. i dont even care if he defends them evenly, meaning if he fought 4 times in a year he’d have 2 fights in each division.
as long as he fights legit contendors and makes good fights he can do whatever he wants
sherk should whine to the UFC about taking his belt. why would BJ just give it up? i woudnt. there’s no need to.
and for the record, i take BJ over GSP. i think they are more or less even on striking, takedowns, and heart but give slight edge in jujitsu to penn and significant edge to penn in the chin department. ( i know i know gsp’s wrestling is better, but not when up against penn)
Ehh. I think you are underrating GSP’s jiu jitsu. I’m not saying Penn might not have the edge but not to the point where it’s going to overwhelmingly decide the fight based on GSP’s BJJ, his amazing wrestling, and his strength advantage. In terms of the chin, we saw hiim get caught flush by the heavy handed Serra. When was the last time Penn was caught with such a powerful shot that we can compare it too?
ehh. i hink you are under-rating Bj’s wrestling. I’m not saying GSP might not have the edge but not to the point where it’s going to overwhelmingly decide the fight based on Penn’s wrestling, amazing jujitsu, and experience advantage. In terms of chin we’ve never seen BJ caught flush. When was the last time we could say that about GSP?
Anyway, looking forward to telling you ‘i told you so’.
What is the evidence for Penn’s great wrestling?
GSP was successful in 4 of 5 takedown attempts in the first fight. GSP is better now, and trains pure wrestling with guys who compete internationally (including the Olympics). BJ has great TD defense, but he still gets taken down. Offensively, BJ isn’t a huge threat to take GSP down, and would burn a lot of energy trying.
BTW, where do you get experience advantage? GSP has more fights against tougher competition than Penn does (and all at WW).
damin it, Hardcharger (is that a tranformer’s name), my post was mocking dropkick’s response to my prior post.
he just got me all riled up cuz he wouldnt concede that penn has a better chin.
and now you got me all riled up cuz my joke made a whooshing sound as it went over your head.
sorry, i’m cutting weight for the 1st time and experiencing my ‘man-period’. i still loves you guys. Autobots, roll out!!!
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