Styles Make Fights
First of all let me just say that I am a fight fan. I started watching boxing years ago -- back when tuesday night fights was one of the coolest things on tv. Once the first few UFC's came out, it became clear in a way it never could have been made clear before: Styles Make Fights! After watching the first 4 UFC's I was able to view professional fighting in a way I was never able to before. A way that few trainers truly understand. This knowledge can be applied to both boxing, MMA, and many other combat sports (I Imagine). However, this knowledge still appears to be something that few people really grasp.
Take the last real big boxing match: Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya. Does everybody understand that De La Hoya was the favorite in that fight?! I mean, how could that be? The most common train of thought was that De La Hoya was just BIGGER. I was surprised to see that when it came to fight time, Pacquiao was bigger, but I was not at all surprised in the result. As an MMA fan, how can you not be accustomed to the tremendous amount of weight cutting that takes place. Pacquiao, clearly, has been doing it fairly well for quite some time. But the point is that Pacquiao is a bad stylistic match-up for a guy like De La Hoya, or Diaz. He's quick, he's strong, he has reach, and a good corner. Let me just say that I was comfortable with my bet.
The reason I'm writing this semi-rant, and the reason I even slightly care, is because I would like to see the level of fight discourse be elevated, especially on a site like BE. Bloody Elbow IS the best place for fight discussions, but it still has some room to grow. The spark that prompted this post occured last week in a discussion about Mike Swick fighting Thiago Alves. Many people, including an editor of the site, gave Mike Swick next to no chance in that fight. This, of course, is rediculous, but what is more rediculous is the fact that no stylistic data was used in backing up this assertion (no data what so ever, actually). Once the BE bloggers got involved, we all got a refresher course in Alves's resume, but still no stylistic comments. One blogger was so infuriated by the support of Alves (and lack of stylistic discussion), he actually used the word "douche bag" while at the same time making a stylistic statement supporting Swick. The stylistic statement was ignored but the gratuitous use of the word "douche bag" prompted a threat from the afore mentioned editor, but still no stylistic response to the heinous allegation that Swick has little chance.
All I ask, and I'm sure I will not receive, is that we all think, just a little bit, about what would actually happen in a fight before we all start commenting on the fight. If everybody was able to do this we could all learn from, and enjoy fights a little bit more.
What would happen if Swick fought Alves:
Swick would use his fast hands and reach to pummel Alves who relies on getting inside to use his strength. Alves is not quick enough to get into range on Swick and Swick is powerful enough to hurt Alves on the outside. Although Alves is an excellent fighter, Swick is a very bad match-up for him. Swick would have to make a mistake for Alves to win. My money goes on Swick.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Swick is not nearly powerful enough to hurt Alves
He has enough power that he can hurt cans and thats about it. Alves will demolish his legs whenever he gets close, take his best shot and lay a bomb on Swick that collapses him in the center of the ring. Its a horrible style matchup like Wand on Jardine
by skwirrl on Dec 16, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You’re right that Jardine is an outside fighter but the problem is that Wanderlei is quicker than Jardine.
Alves is not quicker than Swick and this is where the analogy breaks down. Quick can hurt Alves because Swick, like Alves, is a BIG welter weight. Quickness + Power = a rough night for Alves, something Alves is not use to. Koscheck was quick but he lacked the power, and more importantly, the reach. Kos had to go inside to deliver his strikes.
That's just a big son of a bitch -- that's all there is to it.
by mma_dude on Dec 17, 2008 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where has Swick shown above power at welterweight? Goulet has a non-existent chin, so Swick’s lack of power was magnified exponentially. Additionally, his wrestling wouldn’t be good enough to take Alves down with any reliability, given that Koscheck found it so difficult and Swick’s isn’t anywhere near as good (never mind the fact that changing levels against somebody whose hips are so much lower and possesses devastating knees is not generally a good idea).
So the question is can Alves control the distance? I think that his leg kicks can be a really useful weapon here, allowing him to counter Swick’s range. After damaging the leg, a la Alves/Lytle, I think that he’ll be able to maneuver around and pick his attempts to get inside. I gotta pick Alves in the fight.
I love breaking down fights and talking in depth, even if I ain’t too good at it. :)
by Rundownloser on Dec 17, 2008 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Swick is at his best when he can go on the attack, not so good when back-pedaling. His main offense is the amount of strikes he throws, not the single powershot. His ability to throw those barrages depends on fighting foes where his not afraid to be taken down, can move forward and his opponent covers-up instead of firing back. Alves would hit back and he would make Swick back-pedal.
I also believe that Alves could take Swick down and GnP the hell out of him. Swicks takedown defense hasn`t looked stellar (except against Burkman) and while he defends takedowns he mounts virtually no offense at all.
And that`s not even taking kicks into the equation (which Swick doesn`t have)
"They called him the axe-murderer because he was murdering chumps. They should have been calling him the chump-murderer..." Rampage Jackson (commentating on the fighting abilities of Wanderlei "F#ck Chuck" Silva.)
by BlueberryMuffin on Dec 17, 2008 5:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
if they were to fight, id take that bet against you.. how bout 1000 BE dollars. hehe. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Dec 17, 2008 8:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Count me in. Alves all the way.
"They called him the axe-murderer because he was murdering chumps. They should have been calling him the chump-murderer..." Rampage Jackson (commentating on the fighting abilities of Wanderlei "F#ck Chuck" Silva.)
by BlueberryMuffin on Dec 18, 2008 6:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alves is absolutely quick enough to deal with Swick. Thiago is a good muay thai fighter with more power than Swick. I see Swick struggling with Alves on the feet, rather than the other way around.
by Andy R on Dec 17, 2008 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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