Quote of the Day: Kevin Iole Rips The Ultimate Fighter "Antics"
by Luke Thomas on Dec 15, 2008 5:02 PM EST
in MMA News
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PrintIt can hardly be a coincidence that the two men who won titles on “The Ultimate Fighter 8” were also among the few who avoided rowdy and disgusting behavior in the house.
Ryan Bader knocked out Vinnie Magalhaes in the light heavyweight final and Efrain Escudero bested Phillipe Nover via unanimous decision on Saturday in the lightweight finale at The Pearl at the Palms in what can only be described as a victory for taste and common sense.
If the best SpikeTV producers and the UFC can do is to show men urinating and ejaculating in others’ food, throwing a glass at a defenseless fighter and making a star out of someone without a whit of class, then it’s time to put a wrap on the reality series.
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At least it’s what it should be about. But the show has devolved into little more than gutter behavior and the emphasis is as much on zany behavior as on mixed martial arts and the fights.
Frank Mir, who coached one of the teams, was turned off by everything that went on and called it “disgusting.”
“The Ultimate Fighter” has been a great marketing tool for the UFC and has been a boon to the sport, but it’s lately begun to portray the fighters and the sport in the wrong way.
Season 8 was as much about Junie Browning’s bizarre behavior as it was about the talent of Ryan Bader and Efrain Escudero.
If Fertitta and White don’t act soon, they’re going to turn off an entire generation of fans and attract lowlifes who think watching a couple of drunks urinate in someone’s food is funny.
It’s beyond time to act.
-- Kevin Iole, writing words that are music to my ears. The repercussions of presenting our sport in this way are neither insignificant nor consequence-free. It's time to wake up to this fact.
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Does the fact that the TUF audience has gotten older, not younger, this season in any way negate this argument?
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 5:15 PM EST reply actions
I don’t think the spike in 18-49 ratings (as opposed to 18-29 or another more restrictive rating) is from people who think pissing in each other’s food is funny. That was only one episode in a season that had some great fights and provided exposure to one of MMA’s all time greats in Big Nog.
If anything, I think the antics slow the growth of the sport, but don’t stunt or reverse it. Sure, TUF could be a better advertisement to new fans, but as is, I think it does a decent job. Do I agree it can be improved? Yes. Absolutely. But the numbers this season are showing that a generation that was already grown and established before MMA hit the mainstream are starting to turn toward the sport, despite (and, in some cases I am sure, because of) these antics. I just believe that a) TUF is valuable and should continue, b) this season’s antics were a waste of time and c) it’s not significantly hindering the development of the sport.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Its not our show
I believe the producers of this show are aiming it at a generation of kids that are used to seeing shows like MTVs “real world” and “road rules”. These kids would be bored to death if the show was about strictly MMA. The show wouldn’t sell to the group they are trying to sell it to without the bullshit. Just wait until they bring female fighters into the house. If you think your disgusted with the show now just wait till they are fighting in thwe kitchen and fucking in the hot tub.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Junie for President!
Someone posted a google trend on the fighters of TUF 8 and Junie was by far the top name searched. People have got to separate MMA the sport from TUF the reality show. TUF is about MMA but first, it is primarily entertainment first. I guaranteed you that if they take out all the crazy antics and the absurd personalities, this show would more than likely get cancelled. There aren’t enough pure MMA fans out there to justify its existence. If you look at TUF as pure sport/MMA then I can see how people would be disappointed.
The fact of the matter is that douchebaggery and the Junie and Kaplan is what sells TUF. Without TUF, there would be no MMA as we know it today. Without the Lebens and the Junies, there would be no TUF. Most of the critics of TUF also admit that they hate the show and don’t watch it. Should Zuffa change the format of the shows so they can pull in the audience who wouldn’t watch a reality show in the first place? It’s business and TUF is in the business of entertainment.
Lets not forget that before season 8, TUF was slipping in ratings. Is it better to cancel TUF or to keep TUF and the crazy antics? Besides, Junie and Kaplan both lost. The right fighters won. Good overcome evil. Isn’t that classic entertainment?
Plus, and reading Iole’s opening you’d think otherwise, Junie won.
The mantra of MMA now should be ‘more casual fans’ – be it by signing a pro wrestler or airing the antics of a fuckup. As long as they can fight.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
TUF may no longer be the best vehicle for growing the sport. TUF may have brought the sport to where it is, but it could also be helping to stop MMA getting more folk beyond that.
by Rundownloser on Dec 15, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Additionally, if ratings are the principle concern, then Junie is small potatoes. Let’s generate some damn interest:
The red line is “The Ultimate Fighter” and the blue is “2 girls 1 cup”. Long story short: ratings and interest shouldn’t be the ultimate concern.
by Rundownloser on Dec 15, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
You’re comparing a television show with a video on the internet. When dealing with internet search results, you’d have to expect there would be more searches for the video given similar interest.
Bolts from the Blue // People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
by Richard Wade on Dec 15, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
What he said.
Bolts from the Blue // People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
by Richard Wade on Dec 15, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, there’s been a gross miscommunication. This is what I was intending to do with my above post.
Some have suggested that since those like Junie serve to garner TUF with more viewers, that it increases interest in the UFC and, perhaps to a lesser extent, MMA in general. This overall is beneficial to the UFC and MMA, even though the actual subject matter may be less than…appetizing.
However, many would contend that this distorts the image of the sport and causes a negative perception toward the UFC and MMA, that ratings and interest cannot be seen as the principle standard by which the show should be judged. Evidence of this point is the analogy above. Surely no one would suggest that the UFC show “2 girls 1 cup” even if the ratings were astronomical (thus the google trends business, as half-joking evidence of its superior interest level), because it would cause harm to the sport.
I am not suggesting that Junie’s actions (or really the actions that he has come to symbolize like the pissed on fruit or the knuckle butter sushi) are equal in type to that utterly horrific video, but they are similar in degree, if not worse. That video is disgusting and demeaning, shock entertainment aimed at the lowest common denominator. However, Junie, himself, was violent and dangerous. Given that TUF is a show that ostensibly has some connection to the martial arts, this is even more detrimental.
That would be what was being suggested by my post above. Perhaps I was being too obtuse, so sorry about that.
by Rundownloser on Dec 16, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
As much as I am sick of this topic, I am glad it is getting some press. Hopefully Dana and company take notice and make some changes.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
Look at Iole go!
He’s finally leveraging his spot as a guy with access and visibility in a way that isn’t just suckling at the UFC’s tit. And before everyone jumps my case…the UFC is great. But you HAVE to stay on top of things like the deification of Junie Browning (listen to the commentary on Saturday night’s show) because even the best company in the sport makes mistakes that can hurt the sport.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 7:20 PM EST reply actions
I totally agree – the UFC isn’t perfect and this is a fine example.
And to get it from a ballwasher like Iole? Crazy.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I love how you have to reiterate “the UFC is great” for daring to field a more than legitimate criticism.
TUF8 was a horrid waste of time, the only bright spot was a handful of fights that could charitably be described as “KotC quality”. Thank the stars that Bellator FC seems to have been listening to the fans, because their concept sounds a lot like what TUF should have morphed into about 2 years ago. I’m done with TUF, there is no reason to talk yourself into watching that garbage anymore
We’ll see how many seasons Bellator goes through, I guess. Think they’ll hit eight?
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just sick...
of points I’m trying to make getting lost behind “OH GOD! YOU’RE BASHING THE UFC!” When I’m absolutely not.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good essay
I appreciate when a mainstream media outlet takes the time to get it right, and hires a genuine fan with opinions about the future of the sport.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
Give me ten Ioles over a Maggie Hendricks.
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Dec 15, 2008 8:02 PM EST reply actions
I will be the first to say I don’t care about Junie Browning’s antics, but really, I do agree they are not a great thing overall for the sport, regardless of whether they pop a rating (and they do). I think the show does need to change, but a straight-ahead training version of what they have now would be boring as shit and lose viewers. They need to do about 10-15 of house/training, 15 minutes on background and story of each guy and who they are, and then the fight. All these guys tend to have interesting backgrounds, it’s time to focus on them.
It can hardly be a coincidence that the two men who won titles on "The Ultimate Fighter 8" were also among the few who avoided rowdy and disgusting behavior in the house.
His premise is wrong: the show had Bader jerking off on a plate in the bathroom. How soon they forget… Iole is a MORON.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
(Wait – was that Bader or the other boring guy Kingsbury? Point stands: Iole is a moron.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Kingsbury was the ‘I got pee in my mouth and I don’t care’ guy. He was awesome.
by Derek Suboticki on Dec 15, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
The plan was for more than one of them to do it – they only showed a guy that didn’t make it into the finals. Do we know who was or wasn’t involved?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
the premise...
of the winners being angels on the show? yes…he is. But not on the fact that there needs to be a change in what is seen as making a “good” TUF episode (cum, piss and drunken fights? not for me really)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Well, he’s also a moron in terms of being a mouthpiece for Dana White.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Quick question to you all. I think we all at least understand the argument as to why the UFC tolerated the antics of Junie and company. But my question is does any one have a friend, brother, sister or co-worker that is now a UFC fan, or interested spectator, because they watched the Ultimate Fighter 8? You Junie supports speak up. My personal belief is the UFC made a mistake for tolerating/showing the crazy antics of this season, but its just a hunch. If someone has any evidence (besides the google graph and better ratings number, which certainly supports the case for Junie being good for business), I am interested to hear it.
Personal anectodes don’t matter, all that matters is that he moved numbers unlike any fighter since Chris Leben (shock).
Now it may not be worth it long run, but clearly he was drawing people in, and did so all the way through his last fight on the show.
by Michael Rome on Dec 15, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think...
that he didn’t draw in any new fans to the sport…but I think he may have brought some fans back to the ultimate fighter show. He definitely benefited TUF more than the UFC (and yes I get that TUF being helped is the UFC being helped…but you get my point) or MMA in general.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Brent, You are Bloody Elbow staff, which probably means you have been following MMA for awhile, and know a lot of people who are MMA fans. Do you personally know any former TUF fans or UFC fans that came back because of Junie and the other wild ones? What you answer isn’t the “ANSWER,” just trying to get some difference responses.
I had a hard time getting my friends and family to watch TUF with me as it is in previous seasons – stigma of meat heads, trailer trash and just general shady characters. There is no way I was going to show them this season.
When trying to bring people into MMA I stick with a good UFN or UFC card for that. No way I’m letting TUF undermine all the ground that GSP, Couture, Forest, Florian and other ‘likable’ guys have gained in coming off as a legitimate sport to my family and friends.
For myself, I download TUF every week mainly for the fights but I do watch the whole episodes and have enjoyed some of the stuff in the house. Then again, I know the difference between what TUF is and what MMA is :P
The UFC isnt going to change it. It works…plain and simple. The hardcore MMA bloggers who’d rather see 1 hour of MMA after MMA fight after MMA fight isnt appealing to anyone…well, except maybe a hardcore MMA blogger.
As for the antics in the house, come on….hasnt anyone been to college? Hasnt anyone had friends u try and prank before? These guys are fighters, but obviously they’re going to be a lil more extreme then your average person.
And as this same hardcore MMA fan, you have no problem seeing Cantwell torque an arm past the breaking point….but someone pisses in fruit salad and everyones Tampon expands? Geez. Lighten up. Who hasnt gargled some piss before….
They need to listen to Ryan
Fightlinker had a bunch of good suggestions last year:
- http://www.fightlinker.com/how-to-fix-the-ultimate-fighter.mma
- http://www.fightlinker.com/how-to-make-episode-1-of-the-ultimate-fighter-6-good.mma
Somebody needs to get this info to Dana White and company stat.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
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