Bloody Elbow November MMA Meta-Rankings: Heavyweight
| Fighter | Points | Promotion | Last Rank |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1. Fedor Emelianenko | 623 | Affliction/M-1 | 1 |
| 2. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera | 597 | UFC | 2 |
| 3. Andrei Arlovski | 559 | Affliction | 3 |
| 4. Josh Barnett | 545 | Affliction/WVR | 4 |
| 5. Randy Couture | 513 | UFC | 7 |
| 6. Tim Sylvia | 470 | Affliction/Adrenaline | 6 |
| 7. Brock Lesnar | 418 | UFC | 16 |
| 8. Gabriel Gonzaga | 385 | UFC | 8 |
| 9. Fabricio Werdum | 34 | ??? | 5 |
| 10. Frank Mir | 269 | UFC | 11 |
| 11. Alistair Overeem | 238 | DREAM | 13 |
| 12. Mirko Filipovic | 216 | DREAM | 9 |
| 13. Ben Rothwell | 206 | Affliction/Adrenaline | 11 |
| 14. Aleksander Emelianenko | 192 | M-1 | 10 |
| 15. Sergei Kharitonov | 157 | DREAM | 14 |
| 16. Cheick Kongo | 151 | UFC | 15 |
| 17. Junior dos Santos | 139 | UFC | NR |
| 18. Roy Nelson | 123 | Affliction | 17 |
| 19. Heath Herring | 116 | UFC | 21 |
| 20. Antonio Silva | 114 | EliteXC | 18 |
| 21. Cain Velasquez | 112 | UFC | 19 |
| 22. Jeff Monson | 105 | Freelance | 20 |
| 23. Pedro Rizzo | 94 | Affliction | 22 |
| 23. Marcio Cruz | 94 | WVR | 23 |
| 25. Shane Carwin | 79 | UFC | 25 |
| 25. Paul Buentello | 79 | Affliction | NR |
Clearly the big movement in this installment of the metas is the rise of #7 Brock Lesnar jumping all the way from #18 on the strength of beating #5 Randy Couture at UFC 91. Many sites are hesitant to rank Lesnar higher due to his slim record. Lesnar will get a big test when he meets the winner of UFC 92's interim title fight -- #2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira or #10 Frank Mir. UFC 92 will also see #16 Cheick Kongo against former Cage Rage champ Mustapha al Turk.
Note that Couture's rise in the standings is due to several sites that hadn't been ranking him due to inactivity ranking him again.
The other big mover is #17 Junior dos Santos who's come out of nowhere after KO'ing #9 Fabricio Werdum. No word on what's next for either fighter although Werdum has made noises about signing with Affliction after getting pink slipped by the UFC.
In January, Affliction is promising to pit #1 Fedor Emelianenko against #3 Andrei Arlovski. At that same event, #4 Josh Barnett will face the unranked Gilbert Yvel in a fight that might have mattered in 2002. The fact that #14 Aleksander Emelianenko is no longer rumored for that bout lends credence to rumors that he can't get health clearance to fight in the states. That card will also feature #25 Paul Buentello against Kiril Sidelnikov.
K-1's New Year's Eve event will see #11 Alistair Overeem face #15 Sergei Kharitonov. That's the best match up those guys could make, since they're wasting #12 Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic in a K-1 rules match against Hong Man Choi.
NOTE: The Meta-Rankings are not the subjective opinion of the BloodyElbow team, but rather a compilation of the rankings of over twenty leading MMA web sites. It is our opinion that these are the most informative MMA rankings anywhere.
Thanks to Richard for the charts above.
Based on the premise that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink. instead of putting up our own subjective fighter rankings, we compile and average the rankings of every source we could find online.
The goal is to show how the MMA community rates the fighters, not to bore you with our opinions.
Be sure and look at the points, they're a much more telling number than the ranking. There's clearly a huge gulf between the top 9 fighters and those that follow.
A total of 43 fighters were ranked in the top 25 by one source or another, for reasons of sanity I only track the top 25 (26 due to a tie) most highly rated fighters.
25 points are awarded for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. Fuller explanation below.
Rankings were compiled from 27 following sites.
The normalization scheme as explained by JCS of FightMatrix is here:
The "normalization number" (new name) would be:
120
divided by
(Total Fighters Found in Any List minus 10)Every fighter found somewhere else, but on a Top 10 list would be assigned this number.
The "normalization" number would not apply to a fighter not found on a Top 25 list. They would simply get 0.
So the process would be:
Do all of the Top 25 lists first, #1 = 25, #2 = 24…. #24 = 2, #25 = 1
Do all of the Top 10 lists, same scoring structure.. stops at #10 = 16Figure out that normalization variable.
Fill in the normalization variable to all fighters not found in the Top 10 lists, but found elsewhere.
Do your totals and rank.
0 recs |
48 comments
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Comments
Lesnar’s not even ranked in five polls – and a Japanese one has him 16th, below Marcio Cruz and Velasquez.. That’s complete bullshit.
by subo on Dec 15, 2008 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Randy rises from #7 to #5 after losing his belt. The metaranking proves that there’s an inherent bias in most MMA rankings.
by cyph on Dec 15, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A few sites didnt have him ranked
Due to inactivity.
by JCS_FM on Dec 15, 2008 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t move up in any of the rankings that ranked him last month. However, four sites that didn’t rank him due to inactivity did rank him this month. There were also nine sites included that weren’t last month.
Bolts from the Blue // People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
by Richard Wade on Dec 15, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you have to have at least 5 fights to show up on their ranking?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Dec 15, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If so, again, complete bullshit – especially if Cain is ranked there.
by subo on Dec 15, 2008 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Four of the five polls in which he’s not ranked are top 10 only. You can make a strong argument that losing to Frank Mir, out pointing Herring, and beating a semi-retired Couture who weighs 50 lbs. less is not a great indication of future MMA success.
The fifth one is MMA-ELO, which requires you to have a certain number of fights before being ranked- Cain Velasquez is also listed as NR.
But that Japanese ranking is pretty ridiculous. Pe de Pano at 11?
by George Lucas on Dec 15, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Brock Lesnar isn’t a top ten HW after beating Couture… I don’t know what else to say.
Those fights you mention are this SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH FIGHTS EVER EVER EVER.
by subo on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those fights you mention are this SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH FIGHTS EVER EVER EVER.
Which is probably why there are still people who don’t place him in their top 10 lists. If he goes on winning, he’ll silence the doubters, but it’s pretty obvious that Lesnar’s resume is too short and/or too checkered for some people to take seriously.
by George Lucas on Dec 16, 2008 5:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its getting better with Carwin, Velasquez and dos Santos making waves in the UFC, Afflcition keeping some of the old guard busy and Alistair rocking DREAM.
Just wait until Bobby Lashley gets to the UFC! : P
by Kid Nate on Dec 15, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s not getting better, it’s just holding on. Look at any other division and you’ll see talent for miles, lined up outside the UFC’s doorstep. Talented, well rounded, athletic fighters at 155, 170 or 185 lbs. are like a dime a dozen.
But if you’re a JuCo wrestler with a Big Mac habit, an overweight englishman who can throw a straight punch, a european kickboxer who couldn’t hack it in K-1 and just got his blue belt, or the freakish biological result of a pituitary mutation, suddenly all eyes or on you to make a splash in the weakest but most loved division in the sport.
by George Lucas on Dec 15, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That certainly was the case. I’m not so sure anymore. I think Silva (and Fedor for that matter) is over-ranked, but Brock and Carwin are not Bob Sap or Tank Abbott. They are actually athletes in good condition that saw the kind of money they could make stomping down “JuCo wrestlers with a Big Mac habit” or “freakish biological results of pituitary mutations” (Choi).
I’m not saying its so stacked that we finally get a Cruiserweight division or something at 225 yet (one can dream), but I think we’re on the cusp of the freak-fights not being necessary for lack of talent. Adrenaline vs. Zuffa splits the existing talent for now exaggerating the problem, but maybe that competition will drive agents to find and prune more JuCo wrestling, NFL big boys to give it a go.
If you’re a great athlete at that size, there are a lot of things you can do even without a lot of talent, right? Just numbers I think. Wikipedia tells me the average male height in America is about 5’10 from age 20-39, and falling for the younger guys. Natural heavies are just way the hell out on that bell curve no matter what.
by swarmofkillermonkeys on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brock and Carwin are all well and dandy, but can you really call a division deep when it’s scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with guys like Sanchez, Evensen, Wain, Hendricks and so on?
Guys like this are par for the course at heavyweight, but would be laughed out of the first round of TUF audtions.
There might be some standouts at heavyweight, but there’s always been a few standouts at heavyweight, along with a whole herd of shitty fighters. The talent level drops off spectacularly and that’s why it’s a weak, shallow division.
by George Lucas on Dec 16, 2008 5:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weak compared to what though? This division is victim to the same problem as the middleweight division with one guy at the top who’s unbeatable. Just for argument sake, how do we know that the light heavyweight division is not weak since the championship belt changes hand regularly? If there was one guy who’s unbeatable in the light heavy like Chuck Liddell back in the days, everyone else would look “weak” as well.
It really is a frame of reference.
by cyph on Dec 15, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weak because it has no depth. It has nothing to do with fedor. It has to do witht he lower people.
Sylvia is still #6 after getting his ass beat by couture, nog, and fedor. yes, 3 top guys… but it is 3 freaking loses. It is obvious he doesn’t belong up there in the rankings with them.
Gonzaga at #8 has one big win his whole freaking career.
Crocop lost to gonzaga and freaking kongo and is still 11.
by dbcb on Dec 15, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on the ridiculous ranking of Cro Cop. I also don’t think Barnett should be ranked #5 for not fighting anyone of note. However, that’s just the inherent bias in ranking. The problem with the ranking is that half the guys are not in the UFC. Since they don’t fight each other, it’s difficult to rank them. Additionally, there is also an inherent bias that assume UFC fighters like Dos Santos, Carwin, and Valasquez are worse than guys like Rothwell and Nelson.
It has nothing to do with the division being “weak.”
by cyph on Dec 15, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin or Valasquez...
vs. Rothwell would be a massacre
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A massacre for what fighter? If you meant that Rothwell would massacre them then I disagree.
It’s almost impossible to tell based on their records. Rothwell was a world beater in the IFL and other regional shows but what does that really tell us? Since there’s no way to tell, we have to pull out common opponents and extrapolate from there.
The only commonalities between Rothwell and Valasquez is Jake O’Brien. Rothwell lost to Arlovski, a fighter who beat O’Brien in the fourth minute of round 2 and did not look all that great in the fight. O’Brien if you remember was destroyed by Velasquez in 2 minutes and it was as one sided as a fight can get. Obviously, this doesn’t tell you the complete picture, but I highly doubt that Rothwell’s record from IFL proves anything.
by cyph on Dec 15, 2008 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no no...
I think Carwin or Cain crush Rothwell.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
Barnett TKO’d Couture when it actually meant something, decisioned Nog and subbed Aleks E. Thats definately “not fighting anyone of note”
by skwirrl on Dec 16, 2008 4:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he is probably talking about barnett not beating a top 10 opponent in 2 years
by dbcb on Dec 16, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overeem has looked the most impressive of any Heavyweight this year. I’d like to see him back in Strikeforce next year. Maybe facing some of the Affliction guys.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Dec 15, 2008 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You may feel differently after Kharitonov whups his ass.
by subo on Dec 15, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with aaronb about AO, but the Kharitonov fight should be fun.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on Dec 15, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Pee Wee Herman?!?!?!
That guy has to start fighting some real people because he is too sick not to be top 25
by EazyEismydad on Dec 15, 2008 6:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Perfect example
of why ratings are meaningless Frank Mir is ranked 10th when the only thing he’s done since returning from his motorcycle accident is getting a hold of Lersnar’s leg.Unless his win over a one dimensional Antoni Hardonk carries a lot of weight in other peoples eyes.Overeem will climb a lot higher after he beats Kharitonov who looked overweight at Dream vs. Jimmy Ambriz. Of course he didn’t need to be in top shape to beat him he’ll have to be now.
by tylerdurden1 on Dec 15, 2008 7:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If you ask me, that win over Brock looks more and more impressive every day.
And Kharitonov is going to fucking starch Overeem.
by subo on Dec 15, 2008 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I must have imagined Lesnar beating Couture silly last month.
by andherewego on Dec 15, 2008 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well..
I don’t think it is reasonable to expect too many sites to list a guy who is 3-1 in his career in the top 3. Rankings are based on accomplishments and while I wouldn’t doubt for a second that he is a top 5 heavyweight, he doesn’t have a track record which necessitates ranking him there.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 15, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is just no excuse in the world for Tim Sylvia (whom I’ve defended in the past, especially for trying to finish Nog and not resting on a two round to zero lead) to be ranked above Brock Lesnar. I don’t care if Brock is 3-20, he just beat the greatest champion in the history of the division who’s made a living lately beating monsters (including Sylvia).
Brock Lesnar on Tim Sylvia: ‘He looks like fucking Swamp Thing… I’d double leg his ugly ass through the cage’
by subo on Dec 15, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The “Greatest Champion in the History of the Division” isn’t saying much considering no one has defended the heavyweight belt more than twice, consecutively.
by George Lucas on Dec 15, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it is saying what it is – Randy Couture is the greatest HW champ in the history of the UFC, and Brock beat him. What SHOULD he have done, man – turn down Randy for a tougher opponent? Give me a break.
by subo on Dec 16, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huge hype train on greatest of all time blah, blah and I don’t buy it. Brock winning is still impressive, but c’mon he beat a guy giving up 50-60lbs, who is 46 and laid off for 16 months…HYPE has made this win a far bigger accomplishment in terms of actual “in-ring” accomplishment than it really is, imho.
by The_Gaijin on Dec 16, 2008 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy who was giving up the 50-60lbs was coming off wins over the guys currently ranked 6th and 8th in the weight class.
Bolts from the Blue // People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
by Richard Wade on Dec 16, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot about the 46 years old with 16 months of ring-rust part…not to mention the fact that almost every comment is blasting Sylvia’s presence at his ranking as nothing more than habit at this point.
by The_Gaijin on Dec 16, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So what? Dude, it’s irrelevant. He made weight. He beat a guy who was previously #3 heavyweight. That’s it. Since when has an opponent’s age factor in someone’s ranking?
by cyph on Dec 16, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since people didn’t like the guy who won.
Bolts from the Blue // People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
by Richard Wade on Dec 16, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Greatest champ
In the history of the UFC division. Both Nog and Fedor are greater champs than the UFC has ever had at the pinnacle of its HW division
by skwirrl on Dec 16, 2008 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arlovski at 3? Blech.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Dec 15, 2008 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And he’s incredibly one dimensional.
by Rundownloser on Dec 16, 2008 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Biggest surprises to me are..
Reasons for some of these issues are that some ranking sites are slow to update and/or drop inactive fighters. This is why Lesnar is below Couture, and Couture moved up. dos Santos is still lower than I’d expect as well, but he should be ranked high for the same reason Gonzaga was.
Outside of these issues, my biggest beefs are:
Sylvia at #6. The guy is a fringe Top 10 to me at this point.
Mir at #10…. Come on.
Buentello at #25. Not a major issue, but seems high
by JCS_FM on Dec 15, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mir is totally riding the hype train from being in the UFC title tournament on coaching TUF. He’s top of mind right now and that gets him ranked.
Sylvia is just hanging on out of habit. People have been ranking him for so long that they are just still doing it, I think he’ll gradually fade as he fails to get fights.
Buentello just shows how thin the division is.
by Kid Nate on Dec 16, 2008 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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