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Phillipe Nover: the most talented fighter lost.

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Some of you may call question me for stating this non-obvious fact after he got dominated for two rounds last night. But hold your venom and hear me out.

Phillipe Nover will end up as the better fighter in the long run. This is one loss that will help define his career. Nover was clearly the better striker last night and it would take the most ardently anti-Nover guy to say otherwise. Efrain wanted nothing to do with him standing up and opted to take him down every time. Yet, Nover was never in danger of being submitted. He took several vicious shots to the face from his back but never faltered. Instead, he fought and defended well, but mostly from his back.

The third round rubber guard and near omaplata and gogoplata was BJ Penn-esque. The fact that his strongest round was the third after he got worned out by a better wrestler in Efrain the previous two rounds speaks positively of his cardio and heart. Lesser men have faltered from the grind of being in the guard far too long. Rewind to the Johnson-Burns fight, or go further back to the CroCop-Gonzaga fight for a reminder of what a brilliant tactic that is against strikers.

With the praise out of the way, we must still come to the realization that Nover lost--unanimously. His opponent fought a smart but boring fight, forcing Nover out of his element. There is one obvious glaring hole in Nover's game and that is his awful take down defense. Nover needs to call up Thiago Alves and ask him how to defend the takedown. Great strikers need great takedown defense...period.

Nover should switch to a real MMA camp. His camp did not prepare him for the obvious--strike hard where your opponent is weakest. Efrain's strength is his wrestling and the ground game is his domain. Contrast that with Nover's strength which is his striking. Did his camp not that know he is weak in wrestling? Anyone who watched last night fight already knows the obvious. How could his camp miss such details? Did his camp not realize that Efrain would rather take Nover to the ground since he's the superior wrestler? Where was the take down defense? From the ease of Efrain's take down, Nover did not train for that eventuality at all.

Nover came in with no game plan. Efrain executed his to perfection. Was it arrogance or stupidity on Nover's part? Nevertheless, Nover almost managed to derail Efrain's simple gameplan by reversing Efrain many times from the back, got up time and time again after being taken down continuously, and then managed to take the third round. Efrain was clearly slowing down by the third but by then it was too little too late.

Efrain is an absolutely talented fighter and will be one of the premiere MMA fighter in the lightweight division. He has terrific wrestling, killer takedowns, and awesome submissions. No one can argue that he did not win last night. And yet, I can't help but think that the more talented guy lost.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

2 recs  |  Comment 21 comments

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But when are fighters/camps going to learn from guys like Randy, that the mental aspect and a solid game plan featuring alternative strategies, is vastly important?

Props to Efrain, a good fighter, with a winning strategy.

Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Dec 14, 2008 11:42 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I definitely agree with you hear. I think Efrain as all the talent in the world but Nover is just better, despite what we saw last night. I’d like to see these two rematch after having a few fights in the UFC first.

by dropkick101 on Dec 14, 2008 12:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

he will do NOTHING in this division without wrestling though. Absolutely nothing.

I was stunned on how bad his wrestling was. And he kept making the same mistake over and over… charge forward like crazy, get power bombed.

There is going to have to be some CAREFUL match making for him in this division. I don’t even though Efrain is that good of a wrestler as he seems small for 155 and he isn’t super explosive.

by dbcb on Dec 14, 2008 12:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

5’9 is never too small for 155. They’re both pretty good sized lightweights. Efrain is an NCAA All American wrestler so you’re wrong on his not being a good wrestler.

by cyph on Dec 14, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that good of a wrestler compared to others in the division… the maynards, stevensons, guidas, sherks, ect.

efrain looked soft and small. 5’9 155 can be too small if you don’t have the strength and muscle size like some of these LW beasts do.

by dbcb on Dec 14, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck all that noise. That sub attempt in the last minute (which neither I, Efrain nor the commentators were too terribly worried about) was about the only positive thing Nover did in fifteen fucking minutes.

If you can’t stuff a takedown – or at least get the fuck up once taken down – you’re not going to make it in the UFC. Nover will learn that lesson over and over again in the LW division.

by subo on Dec 14, 2008 2:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know what you mean about not getting up. He repeatedly got up after he got taken down. Getting up isn’t the problem; not getting taken down is the problem.

by cyph on Dec 14, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow dude

Seriously? I’m getting pretty sick and tired of everyone and their momma riding Phillipe (which I’m a fan of) and not giving Efrain his due. Its funny how through out the whole post you trash Efrain and then give him props at the end to try seem neutral. lol Efrain is undefeated for a reason. He has Good Jits (did you not see it on the show???), GREAT wrestling and good stand up. How can you say Efrain wont go on to be a better frighter? HE DOMINATED “The next GSP” through out the whole match. So you’re saying because he almost got a sub off in the 3rd (which he really didn’t) that Phillipe almost won? WRONG! Sorry man but Dana just sold you on Phillipe.

Also,

“His opponent fought a smart but boring fight”

Thats just your opinion. That fight was awesome, did the ref ever stand them up? Umm, NO! Because there was constant action. Get over it, the guy you wanted to win lost.

Last one…

 “Nover was clearly the better striker last night”

Really? When? What round? Were we watching the same fight? Apparently he wasn’t since he never rocked Efrain and he never hurt him. Efrain looks real purtty right about now because he was and IS the better fighter right now like it or NOT. ;)

by xFenixKnightx on Dec 14, 2008 4:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I didnt see the “clearly better striker” either. Nover would charge forward and throw… and get taken down.

Do I think he is the better striker? judging from the show, yeah. But he never had efrain in any sort of danger onthe feet

by dbcb on Dec 14, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said Efrain wasn’t the better fighter last night. I said Nover is the more talented fighter. And yes, you may disagree.

Watch the fight again with a critical eye. Every time Nover gets in a grove with his strikes (and yes he did tag Efrain quite a few times), Efrain resorted to the takedown. I can’t blame him for it because it was effective. But to say that Efrain was the better striker last night? No way.

by cyph on Dec 14, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Efrain definitely has a big upside and is both tough and talented. Likely, he’ll make some waves in the division. The main point is that Nover seems very talented with a big potential to get even better.

I think the argument against Nover is two-fold. One, the UFC lightweight division, more than any other, is filled with dominant wrestlers. He’s not going to learn to stuff a takedown against guys like Sherk, Griffin, Maynard, and Guida overnight. Two, he looked dominant against very low quality guys.

Nover is going to either fill the major hole in his game (wrestling) and go on to experience a certain level of success or he’s going to be unable to fill that hole and fail miserably. If Nover is able to pick up his takedown defense, I say he has more potential than Efrain. If not, then the opposite is the case.

by dropkick101 on Dec 14, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nover also seemed adamant to stay with his own gym as opposed to going to more well known ones. Hopefully he will be up to at least partially training with other top teams.

by iiowyn on Dec 14, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he said he’ll likely spend a week or two at other places to pick up new tricks but call his main place home. Or that could have been Junie. I was drinking, memories a bit fuzzy.

Either way, if Chuck can swallow his pride and go down to ATT and Forrest can say goodbye to the guys at the Hardcore Gym who helped him win TUF then I’m sure Nover can realize he’s going to have to broaden his horizons to succeed at this level. If he doesn’t realize that, fuck him for making bad decisions.

by dropkick101 on Dec 14, 2008 6:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Efrain to end up as Sherk with better BJJ and length, while I think Nover is a poor man's GSP with less wrestling.

Efrain is the solid choice, but Nover’s ceiling is insane.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 14, 2008 4:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ok. Maybe I’m missing something here, but where is the comparison between Nover and GSP, stylewise? GSP is a wrestling phenom, who’s made conservative gnp his thing. GSP charging guys down with power shots? Fighting from the guard?

Nover is more like a poor man’s BJ, I’d say. With significantly less TDD, obviously. That’s the closest style comparison for him, imo.

by ununkvadrium on Dec 14, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m guessing the comparison comes from his athleticism and physique.

by George Lucas on Dec 14, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, I’d say Nover is reminiscent of Spencer Fisher. He’s got pretty good striking, although maybe more flash than is good for him, good submissions, and absolutely awful wrestling. I see him having some entertaining fights, but getting grapplefucked by the top guys in the division.

by FRANKIE on Dec 15, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Nover: I don’t see it, I just don’t.

by lbk on Dec 14, 2008 10:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

saying nover will be amazing when he learns great takedown defense is the same as saying efrain will be amazing as his kickboxing gets better. they each lack in an area, theyre each amazing, efrain showed off the wrestlers advantage and an ability to perform gameplans under extreme pressure. period

by beersnbroads on Dec 14, 2008 10:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I get your point, but it doesn’t matter what sort of potential a fighter has if he can’t stop a take down. Nover got beat, plain and simple, and in doing so a huge flaw in his game was exposed. I agree he can learn from this and improve. Nover certainly has the talent and it seems he has the drive too. I hope he does because I feel he can be a good lightweight in the future.

On a side note, I think people are getting a bit too carried away with the hype on both of these guys. Both are blue chip prospects, but for now that’s all they are – prospects. Let’s wait until they get some wins in the octagon before we start anointing either of them the next GSP or Anderson Silva. At this stage in either fighter’s career it’s a ridiculous assertion to make.

by Andy R on Dec 14, 2008 10:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I think it’s a general consensus from everybody who heard it that Dana White’s Silva and GSP comparisons were part of the promoter shtick – an example of the hype train at work. White made sure to use phrases like “reminds me of” to not incriminate himself but the result left in people’s minds was the same nonetheless.

by dropkick101 on Dec 15, 2008 12:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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