Early Reports Suggest De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao Does 1.5 Million Pay-Per-View Buys; Update: HBO Announces Buyrate of 1.25 million
by Luke Thomas on Dec 10, 2008 9:57 AM EST
in News
101 comments
Indications are that the pay-per-view result will be around 1.5 million buys, which is a phenomenal number. It’s a tribute not only to De La Hoya’s ability to sell, but it points out the widespread popularity that Pacquiao has obtained. This guy isn’t popular just among his countrymen in the Philippines.
It's an open question how much the recession affects pay-per-view buys, but this figure is a true testament to the selling ability of Oscar De La Hoya. Casual boxing fans are cognizant of Pacquiao and his significance, but he has not historically demonstrated the drawing power to pull in numbers like this. My hope is that Pacquiao's win translates into a star making event where this win acts as a catalyst such that future bouts against high-profile boxers (Hatton, Mayweather) also turn into large pay-per-view buyrates.
I hesitate to say these numbers somehow imply something significant about the popularity of boxing against MMA given how strong the pull of Oscar De La Hoya is. It's also scary now that talk of De La Hoya's retirement is swirling rapidly, thereby robbing the sport of huge PPV purchases in addition to spotlighting less popular fighters like Manny Pacquiao. But it's comforting to know if this was De La Hoya's last fight, he can at least salvage some dignity by pointing to the dollars he's pulled in. His 15 plus year career was pretty spectacular and while Pacquiao worked him over last Saturday, "The Golden Boy" is undoubtedly the most popular figure in combat athletics. Even in declining ability and increasing age, that still counts for quite a bit. Hell, there has heretofore never been a UFC event match or beat this PPV figure. Not too shabby.
Update: HBO announced today that the buyrate was 1.25 million.
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Not to mention that
The undercard sucked total ass.
by JCS_FM on Dec 10, 2008 10:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
In all honesty, how many casual fans actually buy boxing ppvs for the undercards? They’ve been gradually shifting to this type of set-up for a while.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 10:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And outside of De La Hoya/Mayweather, Mayweather/Hatton, and De La Hoya/Hatton, how many super successful PPVs has boxing had in the past few years? If boxing wants long term growth and stability, they’re going to need to put on more interesting undercards.
by Mike Fagan on Dec 10, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that...
I mean…I’d like to see better undercards but the truth is that undercards sell to the base of boxing fans but main events sell to the public. Tyson/Lewis did huge numbers and I’d bet there are maybe 10% of people who ordered that show who could tell you what other fights were on the card.
What needs to happen is boxing needs to shift away from having PPV be such a set in stone destination. Fighters aren’t allowed to become major stars before people are expected to shell out $55 to watch them fight. You should be able to track the progress of fighters as they go from ESPN2/Versus to HBO/Showtime and once they’re selling out arenas then see them on PPV.
The problem is you’re getting guys who’ve never drawn a sold out house fighting on PPV…there is no money there and it cuts exposure for these fighters to all but guarantee that they won’t be selling out their next fight either.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And...
for what it’s worth the Tyson/Lewis undercard was very good (pacquiao/Julio and Casamayor/Arias). Which is my point. A good undercard didn’t sell that fight….the main event did.
I probably should have mentioned that in the above post.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you think good undercards would push an even to over the top? People who are debating whether to buy an event or not would definitely be swayed by the undercard. This is the problem with boxing. And they will never fix it until it’s too late.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...
I think it may help them pick up a little bit in buys. But there are a lot of people who don’t even watch the undercard. They throw parties and hang out with boxing on in the background until the main event comes on.
No one decided to buy Tyson/Lewis because they wanted to see Casamayor fight.
If you need proof of this…look up a bit…DLH/Pacquiao did 1.5 million buys with an absolute turd of an undercard.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did the other .5m buys from the Mayweather fight go? How are you so sure that the .5m wouldn’t have bought this card if it had a better undercard?
Boxing fans have been conditioned to disregard undercards. Fight fans are fight fans. If MMA fans can be swayed by undercards, then there’s no reason boxing fans couldn’t. The conditioning can be changed, it’s just nobody wants to do it.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They went...
…with Mayweather.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they really aren't
The promoters have studied this pretty well. People — in a study sense of the word “people” — do not care about the undercards. Hardcore fans that watch the undercards do care. But did I pay $55 for this fight knowing the undercard would probably be short and stink? Yeah. They’ve already got guys like me, and the main event is really ALL that matters to the more casual fans.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
which, I will say, I think is a crying shame
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
100% Correct
Before I was really into to combat sports, I would get excited for big boxing fights. Not because I knew anything about boxing, but because I would see all this coverage on ESPN about some big boxing fight. I would be intrigued and try to find a way to watch the fight because of the two good names at the top.
In some ways, it’s the same principle the UFC uses putting guys from TUF on pay-per-view main cards. They do it because it gets people watch, which increases the bottom line with fans who are on the fence about buying the card. If shitty undercards don’t dissuade casual fans from buying boxing pay-per-views then there is no reason for promoters to put on good ones.
by Andy R on Dec 10, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what separates boxing from mma – IMO a good bit of mma cards are bought for the undercard fights – granted the main events are going to be good, but the undercard fights are just as interesting.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MMA is my favorite but i still really love boxing. I hope Manny will be able to bring in the numbers like De La Hoya. If De La Hoya does retire (which he should) he’s been involved in some pretty bad ass fights. My favorite still has to be the Fernando vargas fight.
by asmiley420 on Dec 10, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll be the devil's advocate
DLH’s earning days are assuredly over. His last fight with Mayweather could be argued that he lost because Mayweather danced more than boxed. However, his most recent fight was an outright decimation. One, it was a boring one-sided event. Lets assume DLH sold 1.2m of the buys and Pac did .3m PPV. How many of the 1.2m will come back to buy a DLH fight again? How many of those 1.2m will now buy Pac?
I believe DLH VS Pacquia did more damage to future PPV buys than you think. Chuck Liddell’s KO loss destroyed his clout as a PPV draw. I have no doubt that had Liddell continued his dominance, breaking 1.5m buys would have been in MMA’s future. Unfortunately, Liddell’s drop from dominance correspond with MMA’s drop in PPV buys. The case is likely the same here with DLH’s destruction in front of 1.5m fans.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
DLH has never...
…really beaten any of his elite opponents but he has always drawn…he has drawn more PPV dollars than any other boxer ever. I’m sure if he were to fight…say Mayweather…one more time he’d draw well over 1 million buys again. And yeah you could say that it a product of Mayweather…but DLH is still a draw and will likely remain as such until he retires (which is hopefully now)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has DLH ever been beaten this badly and so absolutely before?
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopkins stopped him with a body shot...
but that wasn’t as one-sided. I’m not saying he looked good. But I seriously doubt that he isn’t a draw anymore after this fight. DLH is not a normal boxer by any means.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We shall see. The sport fan mentality is that they like winners. Nobody likes to pay $55 to watch a loser, even if he’s popular.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that for most fighters...
just not Oscar type guys. Oscar, Tyson..etc. Those are guys who draw for reasons independent of results.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true, Tyson was still drawing viewers when he was on a losing streak and every time you hear a rumor of him making a comeback or coming to mma – people get excited with the what-if scenarios.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If that’s the case, then why is Tyson not fighting still? I heard he’s broke.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he doesn't want to
Seriously. He has no desire to fight.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is broke – thanks to Don King. Why is he not fighting anymore, I heard it had something to do with him not getting along with his trainers and what not. It’s been a while since I have heard anything about him. I’ll Google him and get back with you.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't want to fight.
He said after the McBride fight he doesn’t have the “heart or the guts” to keep fighting…seems to be legit given the fact that he quit on his stool against a total puff.
Plus Tyson is bat-sh*t insane and completely out of shape.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's our answer cyph
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take that answer. However, do you honestly believe that Tyson could draw if he came back? If that’s the case, then boxing fans are just as bat-shit insane. =)
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he wouldn't do big numbers
But a couple hundred thousand people would pay to watch him fight, which is partially because Tyson is such a strange figure, and partially because people are bizarre. Morbid curiosity, if you will.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he came back and looked like a killer or someone who could take out the top guys in the HW division, then I’m sure going forward he’d be able to bring back some good buyrates.
But as SC said, at this point it would be “freakshow” interest buys.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd buy Holyfield vs Tyson 3
with MMA gloves on.
by skwirrl on Dec 10, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there were a few of those for Lesnar’s fights too.
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DLH fights are basically a Holiday
for most Mexicans/Latinos. You better believe that whenever he’s fighting, theres a shit ton of BBQ’s and beer being drunk. I had to go to 3 stores to get enough beer since most of teh shelves where empty. Kinda funny I guess. Its basically a given. Theres no way Pac can pull in numbers like that on his own. Ever. Nope, not happening.
Look at Tito Ortiz. Why is he so popular? Mexican much? lol Anyway, lets say he was still knocking down opponent after opponent to this day. We would see 1mill buys EVERY single time he fought.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pac...
can pull over a million buys in the near future. He is closing in on being that level of a star.
But you’re right. Latinos buy boxing PPV’s in big numbers. that is just the truth.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Filipinos sadly weren't dirt poor by American Standards
Manny would do 20 Million buys. But the government pays big money to put it on national television on a couple hours tape delay
by skwirrl on Dec 10, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Tito had say over who he was fighting (kinda like Fedor) he’d be pulling in over 1 million buys.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tito Ortiz no longer draws like he did. The reason: he’s not as good as before. Mexicans still like winners. I doubt that they will buy just because it’s a Mexican or Latino.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t draw anymore because of the beatdowns obtained by Randy and Chuck. That is why I was making my smartass comment that if Tito had more say in who he was fighting he probably could draw 1 million buys.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. This is the reason why I disagree with Brent over DLH still drawing. People aren’t sheep. I have no doubt DLH lost 50% of his fan base after his last fight.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still want to see Tito fight Anderson Silva – I don’t know why I just feel like that fight has to happen
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dont know about 50%
But maybe 30-40, still you do have a point and I agree.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Oscar lost 50% of his fan base (and I think that’s a gross overestimation), he’d still be as popular as anyone in boxing. Take that as you wish.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a legend of the sport and I seriously doubt he lost 50% of his fans. I also don’t think Manny gained that many of DLH’s fans as well.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny definitely gained fans. More people saw him fight than ever before, and he was impressive. I don’t know how many — we’ll find out when he fights Hatton.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just threw a number out there since I can’t quantify it. However, human nature is what it is. Nobody want to pay to watch a loser.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re saying it like he has a ton of losses – he doesn’t.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not the number of losses. It’s how he lost. It wasn’t even competitive and he fought a guy two weight classes down.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“fought a guy two weight classes down.”
Yet he weighed less than him on fight night. What a bonehead move.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re talking body frames here. There is a reason why he fought naturally at 135.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He...
weighed in light, only put on 2 pounds when he “rehydrated” and was the smaller guy the night of the fight.
He could easily sell his next fight as him having overtrained and it affecting him which is why he was so off physically and so flat in the ring. And I guarantee the majority of people would buy it.
Look, Oscar is STILL the biggest star in combat athletics. That’s just the truth. Obviously you’re not going to agree…But that’s the beauty of the internet…I’m always right.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not trying to prove you I’m right. I’m trying to make you see why you’re wrong. =)
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“He could easily sell his next fight as him having overtrained and it affecting him which is why he was so off physically and so flat in the ring. And I guarantee the majority of people would buy it.”
Thats exactly whats going to happen.
Ah, I’ll side with Brent. :P Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tito gave Chuck
too much respect, too bad. Overall I really did feel he was a better fighter at the time.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct, thats why I wrote
“lets say he was still knocking down opponent after opponent to this day”
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone here know if Diego Sanchez still trains with DLH?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hope De La Hoya enjoyed his last big payday as a fighter.
by lbk on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling he’s got a least one more
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
New trainer, new 24/7, more hype. Same result…
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously guys...
you’re going crazy if you think Oscar isn’t getting a big payday for any fight he takes or that you seriously think that a third to half of his fanbase is now gone. This is pretty crazy.
I’m not even an Oscar fan but you guys are being completely blind to the truth here.
You’re also overlooking the fact that Oscar kind of…decides his own payday. so….yeah.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trust me, he lost fans
But give those same fans half a year to forget and fill their heads with hype and they’ll be back.
by xFenixKnightx on Dec 10, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you’re blind to the truth? Step back and think of things through logically without emotions attached to it.
When pro teams lose, their attendance goes down.
When fighters lose, their fans jump ship.
What makes DLH immune to the natural forces of human tendencies?
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He lost some fans...
I’m not debating that. I’m just calling the third to half of his fans number stupid and unrealistic.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus you wait for him to retire for 6-8 months, manufacture a reason to comeback and say that he wasn’t focused/didn’t prepare properly/has a vendetta against his opponent and people will be scooping it up by the ladel.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yyyyyuuuup
It’s not rocket surgery. Oscar de la Hoya can still sell a fight. I hope he retires — not because I dislike him or anything, but because there’s no one available for him to fight at 154 that I really want to see. Margarito would put his career in a pine box, a third fight with Mosley has little credibility given their relationship now, and Trinidad won’t come down that low for a rematch. What is there? Sergio Mora? Vernon Forrest? Pass.
Still, if Oscar decided to, he’d sell every one of those fights.
One of the important things to realize is that the second-highet drawing PPV of the year (washed up Jones versus washed up Trinidad, guys with horrible losses on both their records) did a third the buys that Oscar-Manny did.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Spot on sir!
They’re going to have to hope Pac-man can get a great rub off this win and turn that into superfights with Hatton and hopefully pull Mayweather out of retirement. If Pac can keep that momentum up, I think they could get strong buys for Pac-JMM III.
Remains to be seen how guys like Pavlik (after that crushing blow of a loss to BHop), Margarito and Cotto will draw in the coming year.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DLH
has lost every big fight of his career – yet he still drew 1.5 million this time
by skwirrl on Dec 10, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vargas...
Was undefeated and still a legitimate “threat” at that point. That is his one “marquee win”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He quit the fight. Mexicans don’t like when fighters quit. Remember Duran?
Trust me, many pundits out there have said after this performance, Oscar will most likely retire and concentrate on promoting from now on.
by lbk on Dec 10, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
trust me, as a former boxing “pundit” and SC as the best boxing blogger on the internet. He very well could and should retire…But he didn’t lose his base.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duran fought 45 more times
Not that he should have fought 45 more times, necessarily, but he had big fights after “No mas,” including a rubber match nine years later with Leonard, a fight with Hagler, one with Hearns, one with Wilfred Benitez, one with Barkley, a couple with Camacho, a couple with Pazienza…
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also
Oscar has never been tremendously popular with Mexican fight fans and I don’t think that’s a massive hit on his audience. He’s never been “a Mexican fighter.” Duran (who is Panamanian-born and always represented Panama and still lives there to this day, though his father is Mexican) was a different type of fighter. He also didn’t have millions and millions of dollars.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Dec 10, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DURAN
not to mention his big comeback victory over davey moore i mean by comeback, that the moore fight brought him back on board to the u.s fans wich he had a ton of. he also knocked pazienza down and gave him a decent fight wich put him back into the spotlight.
by bdw on Dec 10, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if Oscar lost a 1/3 of his fanbase, that means what? He does a paltry 600,000 PPVs? God forbid!
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only way I could ever see an Oscar show doing that low is if he had another fight in 2-3 months.
He’ll “retire,” then come back in a little over a year, and all the hype for his return will be another million buy show against Hatton or something.
by Michael Rome on Dec 10, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oscar/Trinidad II is a million buy show that people have been waiting forever for. Even if he and Pacquiao both only are capable of 600,000 buy PPVs against guys who aren’t Floyd Mayweather at this point, well, so? Isn’t the argument behind MMA’s strength in the market its consistency? Boxing had a pair of 500,000 buy PPVs this year, a 400,000 buy one with Manny and a 1.25-1.5 million buy show with Manny/Oscar.
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What did Margarito-Cotto end up doing?
I have my doubts about Pacquaio as a 600k every time out guy, we’ll see. I think he will do 7-800 against Hatton (in the US), but I don’t think he is coming out of that fight as the kind of star Mayweather was.
by Michael Rome on Dec 10, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
500,000.
Pacquiao isn’t the star Mayweather was, no. I don’t think anyone is claiming that. I think a fight with Mayweather would be bigger than Pacman/De La Hoya was though, and I expect it to happen sooner rather than later. Pacquiao/Marquez would also do >500,000 buys right now. Its a fight lots of people wanted to see before and even more would be interested in now. He’s a “big fight fighter” in the vein of Trinidad, and 2-3 being around the sport is hardly a bad thing for the sport over here.
What will be interesting in ‘08 is to see what happens with the progression of Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito, Miguel Cotto, and Chris Arreola. HBO is throwing their chips behind Arreola for the big men, and creating a serious contender to the Klitschkos would probably spark buyrates in that division for the first time since Lewis. If successful, they even have the ability to match him with the opposite brother. HBO is definitely making the right move making Margarito/Mosley free too. Mosley’s execution will be far more effective in front of a wide audience.
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arreola is too green...
to be in “BIG” hw fights right now. He got tagged FAR too often (and got caught and dropped!) against Walker and looked to be in terrible shape.
It would not be pretty for him against hard-hitting and technically sound boxers like the Klitschko’s this early in his career.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He absolutely...
showed up looking fat to that Walker fight and he was getting clipped pretty hard by a midrange fighter. He’s good for boxing after dark type shows where he can knock bums out…but he has some improving to do before he could hold his own very well.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 10, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is too green in the heavyweight division. They’re all awful. That said, Arreola has as good a shot as anyone and with the right wins it could sell coming in. With luck for HBO, who knows?
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know MMA/UFC fans really want to stick it to boxing and say, “nah, nah – you can’t beat us [ppv buys] anymore!”, and don’t get me wrong, that time will come.
But to have this pie-in-the-sky idea of “DLH lost – it’s over! DLH lost 1/2 his fans and they’ll never recover their box office!”, at this point is purely fantasy.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That wasn’t the purpose of this discussion. There’s no “us against them” mentality here. It’s too bad that some see everything in black and white.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whether you out-right say it or not, I can tell from your stance that it’s the point you’re heading towards. I’ve seen many of your posts/thoughts on other threads and topics.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at my first post’s title: I’ll be the devil’s advocate.
Now you go back through this, and find quotes that is similar to “you can’t beat us in PPV anymore” and you come back to me. This whole thread was about DLH’s draw. Yes, I am believer in MMA’s growth overshadowing boxing in the future. However, where do you see me trying “stick it to boxing” in this thread?
You’re a boxing fan and you’re afraid of the ghosts in the shadows. Stop being so defensive.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually quite contrary. I am a FAAAAR bigger and have probably been for far longer – a fan of mma/UFC.
I just think it doesn’t beget the fans of MMA to try and be so thumb in nose towards the whole boxing thing. First, because as a fight sport I don’t want to see boxing die and second it just looks so bush league for mma fans to have this “we gotcha” attitude.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless, I don’t really think you are the type of person I’m talking about and you’re always an intelligent poster. I didn’t mean to single you out as the “culprit” of this type of thing.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the ufc might not ever be able to beat or overcome OSCAR’S ppv records, but they have already surpassed boxing as whole in overall yearly sales domestically.,and have been #1 for the past 3 years with pro-wrasslin 2nd and boxing a distant 3rd. odh fighting has been the only thing keeping boxing in the discussion.
by bdw on Dec 10, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And as of right now, I think UFC/mma has peaked in terms of it’s popularity with the mainstream/casual sports fan. MAYBE Lesnar will fuel further growth for the sport, but I really don’t see it happening…Couture and Liddell are at “ODH” stages of their careers and while they’ll still pop a good buy, they are not going the be able to generate any bigger business.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just reading Rome’s comment below from today…I stand corrected! Couture-Lesnar breaking 1 million buys…that’s amazing. I guess that indicates a solid answer to my query about Lesnar’s ability to fuel further interest going forward.
by Frank_Castle on Dec 10, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great number obviously, and I do not believe Oscar lost much of anything. People bought Tyson in huge numbers well after he was shot. If he comes back in a year with a ton of hype, he’ll do another amazing number. Fans always pay hoping to see the old version of the guy they loved. It would take 3-4 more similar losses to diminish him.
This number proves again that the recession stuff is a bullshit excuse.
I think the important story is whether this turned Pac into a decent draw in the United States or not. Did people see Pac as amazing or was it Oscar looking bad? When Pac fights Hatton, it will be very interesting to see how it does compared to Hatton-Mayweather in the United States. My guess as of now is significantly less, but it’s too far in advance to know.
by Michael Rome on Dec 10, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
PPV’s go under “Escapes” for me. Similar to a night at the movies or something. In that respect, I think PPV’s are def recession proof. Without that type of entertainment I would lose my mind.
by lbk on Dec 10, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’ll have a story on this later, but Dave Meltzer reported today that Lesnar-Couture broke a million, and if late buys come in strong it could beat Tito-Chuck for the all time top number.
by Michael Rome on Dec 10, 2008 2:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ROME
i think this bodes well for ufc 92. the million plus who saw 91 couldn’t have been dissapointed and will want to come back for more. if 91 doesnt beat lidell/ortiz , im certain 94 will. i do acknowledge that 91’s success might have had alot to do with lesnar’s wrasslin fans, but there’s always hope that they can be converted into fans who like REAL fights.
by bdw on Dec 10, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He also mentioned that the UFC has said the same thing before when that was anything but true, which leads me to believe he’s less than a firm believer about the number. I personally find it a bit odd that all the estimates were off to such a degree.
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC can’t lie on this can they? They have to report taxes to the NSAC.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its their “public estimate” which doesn’t have anything to do with what the numbers actually are or what they finally report. Take it up with Dave Meltzer, as he’s both the one who reported the 1,010,000 buy number and the one who made sure to put in the caveat about them having done this before.
In the interest of fairness, there’s long been the belief that HBO lied about what the actual buyrate was on a couple PPVs (Klitschko/Williams and its 175,000 announced buys is one that often is said to be illegitimate).
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not disputing what Meltzer said. What I’m saying is that the taxes they pay on the PPV will be a matter of public records. If their numbers don’t match, the UFC would be outed.
by cyph on Dec 10, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the time it happens, no one will care. Did anyone spend a moment of time talking about UFC 71 not meeting their expectations?
by D.Capitated on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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