Does GSP Have Better MMA Jiu-Jitsu Than BJ Penn?
His trainer thinks so.
I think it's pretty arguable, personally. Georges' last two fights were against black belts that never even had a sniff at a submission even though Georges spent a lot of time in their guard. It was Georges who was passing on them, not the opposite. BJ is obviously levels above Fitch and Serra but those guys are no slouches.
BJ is a different animal, his pass game to mount and top control are on a different level than most, and I can't see Georges pulling off the kind of reversal he did against Fitch if BJ is on top of him.
There are still small mistakes Georges makes though that make me still give the edge to BJ. He doesn't seem all that confident in taking the back for example, he resisted it against Serra, and then when he tried it against Fitch he got reversed.
Of the big fights coming up I think this one has me pumped the most. Beyond all the debating about whether the shot is right or not, all that matters is that this fight is going to be amazing.
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sure bj has better bjj, but when was the last time he sub someone? george will have a field day on bj after the 3rd round. st piere by tko in the 4th.
by valtheguy on
Nov 8, 2008 5:56 PM EST
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BJ has submitted Stevenson, Pulver, Ludwig, Hughes and Gomi over his career. Him submitting GSP is definitely not out of the question IMO.
by idefinecagefighter on
Nov 8, 2008 7:07 PM EST
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"when was the last time he sub someone?"
January.
by smoogy on
Nov 8, 2008 8:07 PM EST
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"all that matters is that this fight is going to be amazing."
In the aftermath of standgate, I’m growing more concerned about UFC’s penchant for big money matchups that obscure the path to the title. Obviously, telling fighters how to behave in the octagon is worse than signing questionable title fights, but both practices put money first and threaten the legitimacy of the sport. I feel like UFC has been getting a free pass on this for the most part, particularly with regards to Lesnar, who’s only won once in the organization.
I’d like to see a formal policy on this, even if it’s deliberately loose to accommodate the most interesting possible matchups.
by Scotty Mo9 on
Nov 8, 2008 6:39 PM EST
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This is fight sport. The entire history of fight sport is based on putting on the fight most fans will want to see, not the top 2 best fighters. It’s great when those two are the same thing, but the UFC does more than it needs to in that regard (see Jon Fitch).
by Michael Rome on
Nov 8, 2008 7:25 PM EST
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See Silva vs. Cote
I just find comparing making money fights and Standgate ridiculous. Other than that, nothing I can say that Mike Rome didn’t.
by LiuLang on
Nov 8, 2008 7:40 PM EST
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This is an irrelevant question. GSP’s wrestling is so absolutely superior to Baby J’s that he will never be in any danger.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 6:51 PM EST
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…nobody’s ever in danger until they get punched in the face.
by cyph on
Nov 8, 2008 8:04 PM EST
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yeah...
He was barely able to out box a dwarf (sherk). How’s he gonna do against GSP.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 8:41 PM EST
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Way too simplistic. He toyed with Sherk for rounds, and he outboxed GSP just 2 years ago. He has better boxing than St. Pierre, but all around standing game probably leans GSP.
by Michael Rome on
Nov 8, 2008 8:48 PM EST
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excuse me?!
I watched the last fight. Why is it so hard for people to understand that fight? GSP got sloppy in the beginning and payed for it. BJ actually knocked some sense into him which is why GSP was able to OUTBOX him for the rest of the fight.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 8:53 PM EST
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GSP outbox BJ Penn? More like out wrestled him. GSP fans sure have selective memory.
by cyph on
Nov 8, 2008 9:16 PM EST
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Right, GSP spent the rest of the fight outwrestling him.
by Michael Rome on
Nov 8, 2008 10:07 PM EST
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yes…
He outwrestled him as well.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 10:46 PM EST
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According to compustrike, BJ is far superior to GSP on the feet. GSP shines in ground and pound.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on
Nov 9, 2008 4:40 PM EST
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WTF fight were you watching? BJ ate him up on the feet.
by Mike Fagan on
Nov 9, 2008 1:27 AM EST
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BJ hits hard, doesn’t he.
I don’t think GSP is gonna stand in the pocket and trade again.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 9, 2008 11:21 AM EST
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I am way way way more excited about this fight now than I am for Couture VS Lesnar.
by Ubernoober on
Nov 8, 2008 7:43 PM EST
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Me 2 – I have been saying for months now that this fight is so much bigger than the Couture vs Lesnar fight – why doesn’t Dana see that? This is going to be the fight that will outdo the the Liddell vs Ortiz 2 ppv buys.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on
Nov 10, 2008 1:11 PM EST
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I’m surprised the degree to which so many people are so sure it’s going to be a dominating fight for one guy or the other. This is going to be a complete war, I suspect it’s going all 5 rounds.
by Michael Rome on
Nov 8, 2008 8:14 PM EST
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GSP/Fitch went all 5 rounds...
Was that not a dominating performance?!
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 8:56 PM EST
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I am going to be putting big money on GSP this fight. He is way too strong for BJ to contain in their present careers./
by lbk on
Nov 8, 2008 9:18 PM EST
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I love when people make these claims without a line even being put up.
by Mike Fagan on
Nov 9, 2008 1:28 AM EST
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Yep, takes away a lot of credibility.
I’ve been waiting for a while for the bookies to put lines up for Penn-GSP, hopefully they’ll do so soon after 91.
by idefinecagefighter on
Nov 9, 2008 2:49 AM EST
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speaking of lines, are there any outside of the top 2 fights at 91 yet?
by Michael Rome on
Nov 9, 2008 4:22 AM EST
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5dimes have Maia -245, Quarry +175.
by idefinecagefighter on
Nov 9, 2008 6:30 AM EST
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Two of the best MMA guys of our era are going to go at it again. Both have developed so much more from when they last met. Anything could and probably will happen.
Yeah, I’m pumped for this fight over all others.
by Benicio on
Nov 8, 2008 9:43 PM EST
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this reminds me of the fitch vs st Pierre fight when goldberg kept going on and on about how no one has passed john fitches guard in the ufc, will st Pierre be passing bjs guard like butter or will he be dropping elbows from guard. Will st Pierre be able to take bj down? I think so, I’m not to sure st Pierre boxes more than three or four minutes of the first round to take bjs mind off the takedown, either way I’m with Rome I think its gonna be a war and I want st Pierre to get the win and keep the belt and see bj go back down to 155
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Nov 8, 2008 9:57 PM EST
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I wanna add that serra looked as in shape as filho did for his fight, I don’t think physically he was ready for that fight with ST Pierre
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Nov 8, 2008 10:01 PM EST
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Bad time to be fighting BJ Penn
He is serious about this quest. GSP had bragged that he had never lost a round in his life before their last fight, BJ schooled him in RD 1. BJ gassed and then lost, that won’t happen this time. BJ is better at anticipating his opponents movements than just about any fighter, he makes his wins look so easy because his opponents don’t understand what is happening.
GSP is an awesome fighter, but mentally BJ Penn is tougher.
BJ Penn wins by stoppage RD 3.
Dana better let BJ fight Silva after this one.
by dualdiagnosis on
Nov 8, 2008 10:46 PM EST
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It’s amazing to me how BJ Penn is able to inspire such zealous rhetoric. You’d think it was the second coming. I’m still not sure if it’s his good looks, outgoing personality, or if it is a result of the hyperbolic Hilo culture.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 8, 2008 11:06 PM EST
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Uh, a lot of fighters inspire that much, including the other guy in this fight.
by Mike Fagan on
Nov 9, 2008 1:29 AM EST
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I'd like to see that
Penn vs silva! Welterweight vs basically a heavyweight, bj closes the distance? Idk
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Nov 8, 2008 11:15 PM EST
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I take it you never saw the BJ Penn – Lyota Machida fight?
by dualdiagnosis on
Nov 9, 2008 12:31 AM EST
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Yes I’ve seen that fight, its always a controversial one as to who really won, but bj was sooo out of shape back then, was that at middleweight?
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Nov 9, 2008 11:54 AM EST
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Believe it or not, it was at heavyweight.
by cyph on
Nov 9, 2008 12:42 PM EST
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It was at light heavyweight – Lyoto came in at 205 and BJ just barely made 195 if I am not mistaken.
If BJ wins this fight against GSP I want to see him fight Anderson Silva then a rematch with Lyoto.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on
Nov 10, 2008 1:14 PM EST
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I’ve been waiting for this rematch forever. This is a different BJ than before. He whooped GSP on the feet but came up short. BJ gets the hype because he is a animal. Im a huge GSP fan to and I dont expect it to be one sided. I just think BJ is the better fighter and will prove it. Sherk is a pretty tough dwarf with actualy some crisp boxing and BJ worked him. I dont think we have seen the best of Penn yet. I dont care what the guy looks like or how he acts he is one of the best fighters out there.
by mlzybaby on
Nov 8, 2008 11:42 PM EST
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Stoppage in the 3rd?
C’mon guys, BJ doesn’t have the gas to last 3 rounds against GSP. He finishes early or he gets finished.
by toxic on
Nov 9, 2008 12:45 AM EST
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HAHA
Some of you noobs are so funny really you guys should look into a comedy career! First off BJ’s mma bjj is LIGHT YEARS far and away above ANYBODY in the lw and ww division and pretty much anyother for that matter. I’ve had the pleasure of rolling with him at the warriors retreat in hawaii. Im a purple belt under Renzo Gracie and a 2x naga champ and grapplers quest champ aswell. In two 3 minute rounds he literally tapped me 7 times NOONE has ever done that to me not even close and i’ve rolled with other world class guys like Pete Sell and Andre Arlovski. I dont see gsp taking him down much if at all and even if he does he’s getting swept and/or subbed. BJ has the clear edge in boxing and submissions. The only thing GSP has on him is wrestling and not by much, even Randy Couture has trouble taking BJ down. I personally think he got ROBBED in their first match and his conditioning was’nt half of what it is today. I think BJ stopps him inside of 3. No doubt its gonna be war but I think my man BJ def takes it!
by irepdaronx on
Nov 9, 2008 3:25 AM EST
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I missed the part about you rolling with GSP.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 9, 2008 11:25 AM EST
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or the part where you get punched in the face while you try to sub in “practice”
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on
Nov 9, 2008 12:28 PM EST
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I know that BJ is amazingly difficult to take down, but I’d be surprised if GSP gets repeatedly stuffed when he tries to get it to the ground. He took down Hughes, Koscheck, and FItch pretty much at will. I feel like it’s going to be a great match. Both guys are very well rounded, and both are significantly better fighters than when they tangled last. I just don’t see it being a walk for either.
by Cannon Jacques on
Nov 9, 2008 1:50 PM EST
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I give BJ the edge because of his ability to avoid damage when on the bottom.
by MMAEruption on
Nov 9, 2008 12:45 PM EST
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Im not saying BJ stuffs every takedown. Im just saying he stuffs a good amount of them which should frustrate GSP when BJ is out boxing him. IMO if GSP were to win this fight it would definitely have to be by grinding out a tough decision. BJ has more ways to finish and more weapons at his disposal. I’m expecting a fight of the year candidate and if I were handicapping the fight it would be something like BJ -140 and GSP +120
by irepdaronx on
Nov 9, 2008 4:32 PM EST
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I pretty much agree. I still don’t believe BJ will frustrate GSP too much in his takedown attempts. Certainly, I can envision BJ reversing position on the ground. If pressed at this point, I’d probably give the same slight edge to GSP that you gave to BJ, but it should be one hell of a fight whoever ultimately wins.
by Cannon Jacques on
Nov 9, 2008 4:42 PM EST
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BJ is better from the bottom
GSP will use his wrestling to try to get out if you try pass his guard while BJ will control posture and perhaps go for a sweep.
This fight will be interesting when it hits the ground.
by achengy on
Nov 9, 2008 4:44 PM EST
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I find it hard to believe that people believe firmly one way or the other. BJ has been great and re-focused since his last fight with GSP, but he’s only really beaten Sherk, and that’s not saying much in terms of how good he is compared to GSP.
When GSP was fighting Fitch, his countenace looked different. He seemed calm and completely zoned in between all the rounds. Totally focused, totally calm. I think the mental toughness of either side won’t be a factor. They’re both mentally tough. BJ has the awesome chin, but GSP has better reach. While Penn has good boxing, I don’t think his stand-up is better than GSP’s. Also since the last fight, GSP’s legs and hips are way better and bigger. If and when the fight goes to the ground Penn will have a tricky time sweeping him I think, and GSP is hard to submit, even by a master like Penn.
On the other hand, Penn’s ability to control, his “hard as a rock noggin” and his new cardio and sublime instincts, I have no idea where it’s going to go. I’d have to give the edge to GSP. He dominated Fitch, and I don’t think that Penn is THAT much better than Fitch. Penn dominated Sherk (oldie but still good) and Stevenson recently.
by Dooda on
Nov 10, 2008 2:37 AM EST
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I just don’t believe that GSP will try to take Penn down and keep the fight on the ground. He may try to take him down for points but to stay on the ground with Penn is not too smart.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on
Nov 10, 2008 1:17 PM EST
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