One More Word on TUF 8 Primate Behavior

You’re adversly effecting the situation by compounding the controversy. You are the MMA media. So in your concern that this will garner negative attention, you are literally motivating that controversy. My opinion is that it was in poor taste, but it would go away with very little excitement.

As far as the “sport as a whole” argument, I think you’re taking it a step beyond the implications contained in the FL article you are apparently referencing. The writer is insisting that there shouldn’t be any wildly effecting aftershocks from some kids fucking with their food. I whole heartedly agree.

The thing is, this (the reality show) is an incomparable situation with other sports, as previously compared. TUF is a voyeur sports product. Most sports would not have the balls to do something like this, and these actions are an unfortunate consequence of that exposure. Personally, I would argue that Junie acting like a silverback gorilla is more damaging to the image of professional fighters than kids pissing on food like howler monkeys. Do you honestly believe that some kids pissing on food— these isolated bunch— directly effect the worldly view of mixed martial artists? I am well aware that you are not arguing to that end, but that’s the overwhelming effect of your opinion.

If this is about how MMA is viewed in the mainstream media and by the detractors of our sport, then I reserve judgment until that negative press actually happens. But articles such as this are merely drawing attention to it. I’m not saying “shhhh, they’ll notice”, but rather I would personally argue that it’s making it seem to be more than it is.

Don’t be offended by what I’m about to say. There are two camps on this issue. The first came is the MMA is sacred ground and anything that may or may not cause harm to it is bad.

Then there is the second camp, which I am a part of. I am a pragmatist. I see things not in blacks or whites but in shades of grays. I am part of the group who decry the NFL as the No Fun League and that crotchity old men who are in control is taking the fun out of celebration. Guys having fun that went one step too far? In the annals of human history, have this not ever happened at least once in person’s life?

You, for some reason, believe that any and all MMA programming should always represent MMA in a good light. Well, I’ve got news for you. Most MMA fighters, if not the majority are not saints. Some of them may even be depraved individuals. TUF is a reflection of that segment. Young fighters with tatoos? Check. Young fighters who are pompous, self absorbed individuals? Check. Young fighters with hardly any education beyond high school? Check. This is the face of MMA. You may not like it, but the reality is that the majority of MMA fighters coming into TUF are not of the college educated, well-adjusted varieties. Uneducated, pompous, immature young men trapped in a house? What do you think they will do when they play pranks against each other? Yes.

Fighters are fighters for a reason; they are a different breed of men. You ask for choir boys from men of war. Is that reasonable?

So, stop protecting this “sacred” sport of yours. You idealized sport doesn’t exist. You continue to beat on this as if this was the anti-Christ and will forever doom MMA as a sport or hurt its ascension to general acceptance. This episode would have been long forgotten one week from today if only you would let it go. You are crusading against a reality show about young, mal-adjusted, pompous, conceited young men who think they can take on the world. Perhaps the show is too realistic for most of us to accept. However, just because we want to wish it away doesn’t make it less true. That is the real world of MMA. Accept it, Luke.

TUF has never been worth watching or even remotely MMA. It’s surprising to me that people are just now realizing that TUF is on par with Survivor, Big Brother, & that old Joe Rogan show where people eat pig bung. This ain’t MMA and any viewer with an IQ above 50 can make a clear distinction between the two. As for juveniles acting like juveniles — is that a surprise either?

The “ultimate fighter” has proven FOUR things…
1. It is fantastic farm league/team for the UFC
2. It has created adoring fans that seem to want to relate to the fighters from SPIKE to PPV
3. Opened the public to the technique and athleticism needed to succeed in the sport.
4. The public has been exposed to supreme childish/juvenile behavior that serves to continue the “meat head” persona.
Stupidity on display is becoming far too accepted in American media

I think by putting the spotlight on the false reality, they are necessarily taking away from all that MMA has to offer. I think they’re making the sport suck.

First, let me say, whether we like it or not, TUF is directly associated with MMA more than any other entity. So saying that it has no effect on how the sport is perceived, is way off base. Now those of us in the know, realize, that TUF is far from an exact representative of mma, but unfortunately, new fans do not know this.

Second, saying that TUF is on par with other crap like Survivor, Big Brother or even Fear Factor is wrong. It is several steps below. Saying it is no different than Jackass, is wrong. When I watch Jackass, it is to see a bunch of idiots with no other claim to fame, lower themselves to ridiculous levels. When I watch jackass, it is what I am expecting.

Third, it isn’t as much the act, as it is the decision by Spike and UFC to even air this. We all know this kind of stuff goes on, especially with young athletes and hazing, etc… But do we really need it as part of the TUF broadcast?

If this is the kind of stuff you enjoy, then get the DVD set and watch it over and over, otherwise, imo, it is a pretty sad statement about what we as a society find acceptable.

I think your argument can be summed up as ‘MMA is new and growing and as long as outsiders still call it human cock-fighting we need to do whatever we can to dispell that sterotype’.

So yeah I guess, maybe. If you’re going to rail on about an incident on the show, go off on Junie.He exhibits extreme anti-social tendencies, obviously has some anger issues, and what he’s done on the show could get you arrested in the outside world.

When I tell someone I do MMA, their concern isn’t “Oh, isn’t that the awful sport where in your free time you put semen and pee in peoples food”. Right? No one will ever associate semen and mma because of TUF.

The reaction we’re trying to avoid here is, “MMA? Are you one of those dangerous people that I can’t trust.” My own boss told me when he found out that I trained, it intimidated him. I’m a very non-agressive person and have never attacked someone in a bar and sometimes when sparring I still catch myself apologizing for a good shot. So I get that there is a public perception issue.

But my point is, if you have to get upset about something on the show, get upset at Junie. Get upset at stereotupes that portray us as angry , dangerous meatheads. Disgusting pranks happen all over the world all the time. It’s a consequence of young men living together w/ too much time on their hands. Frat houses are the perfect comparison. When I tell someone I went to college they dont immediately assume I got paddled while naked by some guys in black robes. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t but it’s not associated w/ saying I’m a college graduate. I can tell 30 people I do MMA and none of them will ask me about how much semen and pee I’ve ingested….unless I say it w/ a lisp and bent wrist.:)

And on a final note…it’s about ratings…and it worked in my case. Love this season.

Remember Gadzook from The Flintstones?

The fact that it’s piss and jizz is just a sign of the times.

“What I and others are upset about is the conflation of that sort of programming with what is ostensibly MMA programming and what message it could send to skeptics and neophytes who view MMA with a dubious eye.”

Luke, this argument is completely rational and I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t feel the same way, but I get it. What I’m looking at is that, at this point, the opinions those who “view MMA with a dubious eye” don’t matter. MMA might not be the NFL yet but it’s been mainstream for a while and there’s only – what – 11 or 13 or so states that have yet to legalize it? The arguments of these legislative bodies are based completely on a lack of knowledge about the actual regulations and realities of the sport. Their reasons have nothing to do with what took place on a reality show where the winner gets a spot in the UFC. The Ultimate Fighter is essentially a cable based reality show. Things are going to happen that are off the cuff essentially to stir the pot and entertain viewers.

The “effect on the sport as a whole” is a general way of describing an event that could shake the entire sport, in a good or bad way. The UFC buying out PRIDE effected the sport as a whole. EliteXC airing on CBS effected the entire world of MMA. The TUF1 finale between Griffin and Bonnar basically launched the current popularity of MMA in this country. Chuck Liddell appearing on “Entourage” and on the cover of ESPN the magazine each made a huge statement as to how far the sport has come. “Standgate” showed what a bad promoter could do to the sport, as well as solidifying the end for the #2 company in the US, thus effecting the sport as a whole.

Luke, I don’t think your first post on this matter contained the sentiment that the shenanigans on TUF would be detrimental to the sport but many of those who posted in the comments section here and on other sites held the view that it did. I think it’s wrong.

We can disagree on the bad taste (no pun intended) of the episode or the effect it might have on those who are still adamantly against mixed martial arts all day but I think those who share your view are sticking with it and those on my end of the spectrum aren’t going anywhere either. I think we can agree that, despite any other thoughts on the subject, what took place on the episode is not going to have major repercussions on the progression of mixed martial arts in the United States. I see it as nothing more than a well deserved come-uppance that might’ve gone a little too far but still got me to chuckle and you see it more as fuel for the haters. It might well be fuel for the haters – but that’s what the haters are going to do: hate. If they’re not throwing stones at the sport for the actions of potential fighters on a reality show then they’ll be complaining about something else. So what.