Rich Franklin or Dan Henderson: Who Needs This Win More?

by Zack Gobie on Nov 26, 2008 1:18 PM EST Comment 26 comments

This Fan Post was promoted to the front page by Nick Thomas.

Franklin-henderson_medium

With the Ultimate 2008 shaping up to be an amazing card and Penn/GSP II on Super Saturday, the event between these across the pond is probably going to be fairly overlooked. To me it's a shame, because the main event will be a very good fight between two of the sports best, despite the bumpy paths they have been on as of late.

But another aspect of this fight that's interesting is the situation these two are in. Both are coming off of wins over dangerous up and coming fighters that was guided by their experience and smarts. They are also coming off of devastating losses to the P4P king Anderson Silva and their careers have been left in a bit of a limbo with them bouncing between 185 and 205 trying to find their place. Franklin in my mind is the most overlooked fighter by the hardcore internet fans while in contrast Dan Henderson is probably the most underrated fighter by the casual, Joe Six-Pack.

While every fight at this level of MMA is a must win, who needs this win more?

On one hand, you have Rich "Ace" Franklin. Elite, well rounded fighter, Jim Carrey lookalike, and all around good guy. He broke onto the MMA scene at the 205 division where he got wins over guys including Evan Tanner, Edwin Dewees and UFC HOF'er Ken Shamrock. After a KO loss to still undefeated Lyoto Machida in Japan, he dropped down to 185 and looked better than ever. Winning the title from Evan Tanner, then defending it against David Loiseau and Nate Quarry, Rich was establishing himself as a force to be reckoned with in the MMA scene.

But along came a Spider.......and well you know how it went after this. He has the ability to beat any middleweight the UFC puts in front of him, he just can't beat the champ. Rather than simply be a gatekeeper, he's moving up to 205 and looks to establish himself here, but he's got a long road ahead of him.

On the other hand, you have Dangerous Dan Hollywood Hendo Henderson. Well whatever you want to call him, he's without a doubt one of the all time greats in our sport. The only man to hold two belts at the same time, he holds wins over great fighters such as Wanderlei Silva, Murilo Bustamante, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria, Vitor Belfort, Carlos Newton, and Kazuo Misaki. Arguably one of the best wresters we've seen in MMA, he is also never been afraid to let his hands go and holds many impressive KO wins, including the legendary final Pride match against Wanderlei Silva.

Since his return to the UFC in 2007 though, he hasn't been on the winning track, dropping two impressive but not impressive enough performances against Rampage Jackson and Anderson Silva. After beating Roshimar Palhares last September, his place in the UFC seems a little unclear. Does this fight at 205 with Franklin mean a permanent stay at 205, or will he just be content on taking the fights as they come regardless of weight class?

Either way, it should make for an entertaining fight and I am looking forward to it greatly.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Easy

Franklin is coming off 2 wins and a Silva loss in last 3 fights
Henderson is coming off 1 win, 2 losses (one loss a Silva loss) in last 3 fights

Franklin is more famous, and more easily marketed. Henderson is known only to hardcores.
Franklin looks like Jim Carrey, Henderson looks like Randy Orton in 30 years.

Hendo needs the win more.

by mythbuster on Nov 25, 2008 7:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree for all the reasons you listed. Hendo needs this win badly.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Nov 25, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendo needs to finish someone. The guy is a decision machine (both ways).

by bigweeze on Nov 26, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn’t that long ago he KO’d Wandy.

by idefinecagefighter on Nov 26, 2008 5:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

KOs coming off of spinning backfists are flukes.

by bigweeze on Nov 26, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on name recognition alone.

Franklin is still a big name, Henderson is not well known to the casual crowd. One more loss and Dan is that much tougher to market. If Henderson wants to make another run in the UFC he needs to win this fight.

by Andy R on Nov 26, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On the other hand though, those two losses were a very close decision against Rampage and a fight against Silva where you could argue Henderson faired alot better than Franklin did.

by Zack Gobie on Nov 25, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

True, but they are losses. If you add the marketability angle, Hendos losses hurt much more than Franklins and the UFC has shown that it cares more about marketability than prowess (not to take away from Franklins prowess). But from what we’ve seen, and what we know of these two fighters fame – I would definitely think that Hendo should be more worried about getting cut if he loses than Franklin.

by mythbuster on Nov 25, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that’s the interesting dynamic of this fight: Both of these fighters desperately need the win.

Franklin was pushed as one of the posterboy’s of the UFC and the king at 185 until the Spider came along. His stock has dropped after two losses to Silva and he needs a high profile victory if he wants any hope of regaining the level of stardom he once had.

Henderson came back into the UFC highly touted with two belts around his waist. He is now beltless. He needs to win this fight in order to earn the attention of the current fans and to regain his past dominance.

I don’t see either of these guys being cut from the company so that is not something to worry about. Both fighters are in a must-win situation.

by dropkick101 on Nov 25, 2008 8:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

both of these guys needed a pick-me-up fight before this one. otherwise whoever loses is bound to let it get to his head that maybe his time as a phenom is coming to an end. but i guess thats what i love about mma at this point, with the exception of a couple guys, you can never stay on top too long. theres just way too much great competition to get comfortable.

that said, i never cared for rich and hope hendo runs a clinic on him

by beersnbroads on Nov 25, 2008 9:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t want to see the winner of this fight coach TUF. I want to see these guys try their hand at the LHW division and see what happens. Putting Franklin or Hendo in the cage with Griffin, Rampage, Wanderlei, Machida, Shogun, Liddell, Jardine, or Rashad would be sick.

by dropkick101 on Nov 25, 2008 9:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is it wrong that i think Hendo is overrated? I have never been overly impressed with his fighting style.

By the way, I think Franklin is going to TKO him in the 2nd,

by lbk on Nov 25, 2008 10:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hendo needs the win

Franklin will never be dropped by the UFC brass. They like him way too much and he’s a great ambassador for the sport. If Hendo loses he’s probably out considering the high salary he’s on.

The best thing would be to have Hendo win and then coach TUF against Bisping (that would be a coaching mismatch if there ever was one). Bring in Team Quest and show how they’ve created some of the best fighters the world has ever seen. Henderson needs the marketing. However he would definitely destroy Bisping in a fight (they both would).

by rainmaker6 on Nov 26, 2008 12:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

neither

neither fighter is in danger of being cut by UFC. hendo’s losses are far from embarassing and they were quite entertaining (page and silva)

franklin obviously had issues w/ silva but otherwise is a very entertaining fighter and gets a lot of stoppages

because of their ‘tweener’ size both of them have more possible matchups than most in UFC

having said all that, hendo takes it pretty easily. compare their performances against silva. and seriously, think what would happen to franklin if he tried to fight rampage?

by Headkick on Nov 26, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You can’t compare their performances against Silva in order to gauge how this fight is going to go. This is a form of MMAmath and we know that doesn’t work most of the time.

by dropkick101 on Nov 26, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i’m with you that mmath doesnt work , but this isnt like that. mmath is if i said rashad evans can beat overeem because lidell beat overeem and evans beat lidell.

i was comparing how disimiliar the two performed against silva. when people talk mmath, they make the fallacy of talking about the W or the L, and thats not really important. but what does matter is what happened in the fight, what we learned stylistically.

for example i am absolutely positive henderson has a better clinch than franklin. i cant necessarily say hendo would dominate the clinch but i do know franklin wont for sure.

i guess my point was that franklin couldnt hang at the truly elite level. henderson can.

by Headkick on Nov 26, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to see Hendo win so he can coach along Bisping which will lead to him beating the heebee jeebeeies out of Bisping.

"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007

by lovingmma25 on Nov 26, 2008 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think the Franklin/Hendo winner becoming the TUF coach has been debunked, with recent talk that Maia or Marquart might also have a shot at coaching. In any case, they better decide fast because I think the taping begins soon.

by mythbuster on Nov 26, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is ZERO chance it will be Maia. It’s team US v. team UK and Maia is not American. Plus, his English isn’t that great to boot. Whoever Bisping fights next is basically going to be for a shot at Silva. Maia has been undoubtedly impressive but he needs at least two more wins before that happens. Reason being, guys like Marquardt, Okami, Bisping, and Leites are all ahead of him in line right now.

Plus, the story of Bisping v. Marquardt is that much better. One is the British Ultimate Fighter guy who has worked hard day in and day out to prove he belongs with the elite of the sport. The other is a tough as nails elite level fighter who has already tasted the belt only to have it ripped away from him by the Spider. He wants nothing more than to earn his way back to a shot.

Demian Maia will not be a coach on TUF.

by dropkick101 on Nov 26, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is ZERO chance it will be Maia. It’s team US v. team UK and Maia is not American

Doh! Good point. His name has been bandied about, but I suppose that’s bad speculation.

by mythbuster on Nov 26, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is team America vs Team UK, and South America is still America. Although it seems more and more Everyone outside the UK vs. Michael Bisping.

by iiowyn on Nov 26, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong.

http://www.fightlinker.com/more-tuf-us-vs-uk-details-emerge.mma

It’s US v. UK. Why would it be South America when the main target audience is in the United States?

by dropkick101 on Nov 26, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll be honest, I just wanted to use the South America is still America line, so I avoided the simple research which would have nixed that.

Slow work day dragging on.

by iiowyn on Nov 26, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough. I come out with nonsensical shit all the time hoping it has some validity so I understand.

by dropkick101 on Nov 26, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Dan is fine either way, because losing to Anderson Silva and Rampage back-to-back is not the end of the world. I think he gets mad props just for having the balls to take those as his first two UFC fights. Franklin, on the other hand, really needs a signature win at 205 to justify this experiment.

by subo on Nov 26, 2008 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"He has the ability to beat any middleweight the UFC puts in front of him, he just can't beat the champ. "

It always amazes me when people bring up Dana White talking points more or less verbatim, and use them like “arguments”.

When Franklin has beaten Marquardt, Maia, Hendo, Almeida and company, then get back to us. And thats not even factoring in all the 185ers the UFC could put in front of him if they went outside the promotion

by smoogy on Nov 26, 2008 4:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs